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Mayor Shirley Franklin race baiting?


Andrea

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And what am I supposed to see ? Am I suppose to see a right-wing white person bent on hearkening back to the era of dogs and firehoses, the better to fuel your indignation ?

You're not really up for substantive debate, are you ? It's okay to admit it. Me ? I'm no good with power tools.

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Scoop. I agree that there is more progress to be made, my point is that comments like the ones givem by the Three Amigos (Franklin, Young, and Lewis) hurt that progress.

I agree with you that there have most definately been injustices commited against minorities in this country (not just the black community). I also believe that public society has taken steps to try to correct those injustices. Many of my white friends bemoan the fact that affirmitive action or that the UNCF exist. My defense of them is that while in the strictest terms they are in fact disciminotory, it is justified discrimination. This country was literally built on the back of slave labor while limiting the opportunities, often times brutally, the decendants of those slaves could take advantage of. I also acknowedge that racism still exists in this country, in both directions. And that no law or set of laws can change the way cerain ignorant people feel. As a society all we can do is make sure that the opportunity exists for all regardless of skin color. You bring up educational opportunities (Yale, Harvard) as proof that we are not there yet. One of my closest black friends graduated from Harvard Business School. What precludes many people from attending Harvard is the economic cost of that institution, not that they don't allow certain races. That economic cost is just as much a barrier to white, hispanic or asian peoples as it is to blacks. In fact I would not have been able to attend Harvard because I too could not have afforded the tuition (even if my grades had been good enough) I know there is much more to the educational divide in this vountry then that, but a true conversation on this subject is hard to have in this type of medium.

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I'm speaking to the term. It is used to get votes and divide the races. Have you been listening to the ads? I have been listening to them for over forty years now. Every Repub has used it effectively to energize their voters.

Do you remember Sonny's "Free at last" comment after he won his first term?

BTW, I only judge you by how your actions and positions.

But we can't get past it until we stare it in the face and deal with it. Ignoring the problems won't fix them.

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Scoop. I agree that there is more progress to be made, my point is that comments like the ones givem by the Three Amigos (Franklin, Young, and Lewis) hurt that progress.

I agree with you that there have most definately been injustices commited against minorities in this country (not just the black community). I also believe that public society has taken steps to try to correct those injustices. Many of my white friends bemoan the fact that affirmitive action or that the UNCF exist. My defense of them is that while in the strictest terms they are in fact disciminotory, it is justified discrimination. This country was literally built on the back of slave labor while limiting the opportunities, often times brutally, the decendants of those slaves could take advantage of. I also acknowedge that racism still exists in this country, in both directions. And that no law or set of laws can change the way cerain ignorant people feel. As a society all we can do is make sure that the opportunity exists for all regardless of skin color. You bring up educational opportunities (Yale, Harvard) as proof that we are not there yet. One of my closest black friends graduated from Harvard Business School. What precludes many people from attending Harvard is the economic cost of that institution, not that they don't allow certain races. That economic cost is just as much a barrier to white, hispanic or asian peoples as it is to blacks. In fact I would not have been able to attend Harvard because I too could not have afforded the tuition (even if my grades had been good enough) I know there is much more to the educational divide in this vountry then that, but a true conversation on this subject is hard to have in this type of medium.

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I appreciate what you've written and agree. But while the majority of blacks can't gain acces to these institutions, there are whites who can because of legacy. These institutions are where the decision makers are graduated from and you're right we do have a few blacks who have degrees from them. I happy about that and have a family member who has an education from one of them.

Again, I agree with your assessment. The three Amigos (as you called them) are only fighting back with the same tools that have been used against them.

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Long time lurker on this board, but I had to respond to what to a poster so symptomatic of the problems of the black community today.

Scoop, your arguments are completely comprised of red herrings and stereotypes.

Let me pose the question to you directly and exclusive to all your red herrings: do you truly think that the election of Lee Morris is worse than "fighting off dogs and water hoses?" If a candidate endorsed by Creative Loafing wins, will "the efforts of Martin and Coretta King, Hosea Williams, Maynard Jackson and many others be lost?" Will Lee Morris "turn back the clock on equal rights, and human rights and economic opportunity for all of us" if elected?

Answer these questions with evidence about Lee Morris specifically. Give some evidence of something he specifically has said or done that says he will "turn back the clock on equal rights" as Fulton County Commission chairman.

Your posts to this point in this thread have provided no such evidence, except referencing that he is white. There's no two ways around it. This is the very definition of stereotyping. Also, your posts have referenced elite universities, which the Fulton County Commission has absolutely nothing to do with. Therefore, bringing up elite universities is clearly a red herring from the question of Lee Morris and the ad's content.

Truly, it is sad to see somebody I'm sure is very educated and very smart basing beliefs through such logical fallacies. I hope that you would truly think through your beliefs about Lee Morris and ask yourself what kind of preconceptions you're bringing to the table that are affecting your judgment.

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^ Good points RamblinWreck. Welcome to the forum.

Mayor Franklin is sticking by her comments. She said she was "infuriated by some of the partisan and divisive politics I've seen in the past five years. What I said in that ad, I said right-wing Republicans, I didn't give them any gender or race. I happen to believe that right-wing Republicans have made some big mistakes in America, and I said exactly what I thought."

Here is the full article: Franklin

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Long time lurker on this board, but I had to respond to what to a poster so symptomatic of the problems of the black community today.

Scoop, your arguments are completely comprised of red herrings and stereotypes.

Let me pose the question to you directly and exclusive to all your red herrings: do you truly think that the election of Lee Morris is worse than "fighting off dogs and water hoses?" If a candidate endorsed by Creative Loafing wins, will "the efforts of Martin and Coretta King, Hosea Williams, Maynard Jackson and many others be lost?" Will Lee Morris "turn back the clock on equal rights, and human rights and economic opportunity for all of us" if elected?

Answer these questions with evidence about Lee Morris specifically. Give some evidence of something he specifically has said or done that says he will "turn back the clock on equal rights" as Fulton County Commission chairman.

Your posts to this point in this thread have provided no such evidence, except referencing that he is white. There's no two ways around it. This is the very definition of stereotyping. Also, your posts have referenced elite universities, which the Fulton County Commission has absolutely nothing to do with. Therefore, bringing up elite universities is clearly a red herring from the question of Lee Morris and the ad's content.

Truly, it is sad to see somebody I'm sure is very educated and very smart basing beliefs through such logical fallacies. I hope that you would truly think through your beliefs about Lee Morris and ask yourself what kind of preconceptions you're bringing to the table that are affecting your judgment.

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^ Good points RamblinWreck. Welcome to the forum.

Mayor Franklin is sticking by her comments. She said she was "infuriated by some of the partisan and divisive politics I've seen in the past five years. What I said in that ad, I said right-wing Republicans, I didn't give them any gender or race. I happen to believe that right-wing Republicans have made some big mistakes in America, and I said exactly what I thought."

Here is the full article: Franklin

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To answer your question, no. But his voting record concerning issues to help blacks is what prompted the ads. As I stated before, Eaves isn't the first and won't be the last to produce extreme ads to stimulate their bases.

White republican candidates have been doing it for decades, we've gotten used to it.

Your red herrings are my facts in this instance. Can you dispute what you call red herrings?

BTW, I hope that you would truly think through your beliefs about racial issues and ask yourself what kind of preconceptions you're bringing to the table that are affecting your judgement.

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We all agree that people on both sides of the aisle (and to be honest, the Republicans went crazy with it this year) release ads that are sensational and appeal to their base, often times using race as a way of doing that. But Democrats do it as well. Black politicians do it and white politicians do it. The point is that it only hurts things, not helps.

The concern here is that Mayor Franklin did it. People thought she was better than that. Do you excuse it? That is the question. Is it okay, in your opinion, for a political figure to espouse radical predictions--predictions which you yourself admitted wouldn't actually happen--all for the sake of politics. Is it okay to openly lie to the people who elected you?

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^ But people are outraged, as evident in what happened in Tennessee. Did his campaign intentionally inject race into that debate? Who knows. Not I, though I feel he did. And it's sick. But the majority of politicians do not engage in these tactics. Again, I, along with others, just felt that the Mayor of Atlanta was different. That she was above scare tactics. Have a debate if you like. Lay it all out for the voters, but don't appeal to their emotions instead of their intellect. It makes the voters feel stupid. There has already been enough of that in recent years.

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^ But people are outraged, as evident in what happened in Tennessee. Did his campaign intentionally inject race into that debate? Who knows. Not I, though I feel he did. And it's sick. But the majority of politicians do not engage in these tactics. Again, I, along with others, just felt that the Mayor of Atlanta was different. That she was above scare tactics. Have a debate if you like. Lay it all out for the voters, but don't appeal to their emotions instead of their intellect. It makes the voters feel stupid. There has already been enough of that in recent years.
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^ I don't see how it's unfair to expect that our elected figures tell the truth and don't use scare tactics to motivate voters (I've had enough of that out of the White House thank you very much).

It's not up to anyone to teach me how not to be racist since I'm not racist.

To me, holding Shirley Franklin to a different standard because she is black would be the racist thing to do.

A white guy who was probably not racist was attacked on air by the Mayor of Atlanta (probably more important and more well-known than the Governor). The implication was that he is a racist. Atlanta, he's going to take you back to the 60s and he's going to raise Bull O'Conner from the dead and he's coming after you Atlanta, with his water hoses and his dogs. You don't come back from that.

Implying that someone is a racist to win a campaign is like dropping a nuclear bomb to win a war---yeah, you'll win, but at what cost?

And you've heard it from me as well, what Corker did to Ford was diabolical. I condemn it. What else do you want?

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I can't cite any instances in Georgia in recent memory. Can you? If you can, bring them up. I thought we were speaking on a national scope and so I cited what in my mind is the most damning controversy in the election season.

And how am I making your point about anything? What is your point? You've done nothing but contradict yourself so far in this topic. First you said Mayor Franklin simply told the truth, then you backed up and said, well no it wasn't the truth, but that she was justified, and plus, white people do it all the time without recourse so it was okay. I cite an example and you want something here in Georgia. Well, I can think of anything here. It was a boring election season here. If you've got some dirt, share it. But whatever you do, stop being coy.

And by the way, whites were outraged all over the country about what happened in Tennessee. I don't understand what you're talking about.

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Oh come on man, Sonny-do is a moron. And people were upset about it. They wrote into my local paper for weeks after that complaining about that. But what do you do other than turn your hands up to the sky? I have no respect for Sonny-do.

Okay, let me edit that. You say I focused on national and you want to focus on local. Okay, sorry, I get it now. Look, Sonny-do also compaigned on energizing the redneck base with the flag issue. That was sick too. But look what happened. Those same rednecks vowed to vote against Sonny-do this time for not changing their precious flag back, but he still won. It didn't make that much of a difference.

Stupid people making stupid remarks doesn't really bother me. Low people making low remarks doesn't bother me. But when the Mayor, again, the most visible person in this entire state, goes on a limb, and calls a man a racist, that is different. Mayor Franklin is supposed to be different. This doesn't end anyone's support for her. She's still done a lot while Mayor that is to be commended. But just because she is of another race than me, does not mean that I forfeit my right to criticize her. That would be the racist thing to do.

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Some things, Scoop:

- Sorry about my first post. From your posts, I thought that you were in fact agreeing with this ad and I cannot on any intellectually honest level find those kind of statements to be true.

- Red Herrings can indeed be facts and they can indeed be very important things to be outraged about. My point was that they had nothing to do with the question of who should be the Fulton County Commission chairman.

-It seems like your argument now is that "if they did it, why shouldn't we?" First of all, has Morris engaged in racist tactics as you allege? Secondly, even if he did engage in such tactics, does that justify similarly racist tactics on the part of Eaves? Does two wrongs make a right?

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Up until now I thought that the next mayor of Atlanta would be black but the one after that would be white due to changing demographics. I think this commercial is going to alienate the white liberal vote that any mayor now needs in order to get elected. If someone like Shirley Franklin engages in this type of "OMG He's white, watch out for the dogs!" campaigning, what can be expected out of those who aren't as moderate as she appeared to be? White liberals who are now going to have to face their suburbanite friends and coworkers and hear "I told you so" are likely to get pushed into the "only someone of my race understands me" category. It's really sad that it may turn out this way but there is no way this does not have a negative effect, especially since Shirley has refused to appologize or even distance herself from the other comments in the commercial. I think her ability to use her reputation to get her favorite candidates elected has ended in the white liberal community.

If you think things have been changing rapidly because of gentrification wait until you see what happens once Atlanta gets a white mayor. I expect a mass exodus of lower class blacks whose neighborhoods haven't gentrified and otherwise would have stayed.

Too many people want someone of their own race and Shirley has reinforced that instead of trying to make it a non-issue. Also expect to see moderate and conservative whites who don't want to live in a city with a black mayor to move in. A white mayor is going to be a signal to them that the city is now "safe for their kind". This could cause an even bigger change in the political structure of the city than anytime since the 1970s. I expect there is going to be some ugly confrontations during this period. I don't expect much in the way of violence but there will be lots of heated talk and finger pointing.

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