Blue Back Square: a mistake?

[HartfordTycoon]

The chains are already in the area and open all sorts of hours. At this point, a better goal if we want to "compete" with other metros is to protect our existing small businesses because, believe it or not, some people actually LIKE independent stores.

[mikel]

But here's the thing. People no longer want to have to go to a regional mall to visit the above mentioned stores and many others. That's why lifestyle centers and new urbanist type mixed use is all the rage right now and Hartford is behind the curve on this, period. We have to catch up in this area, even if we are and have always been strong in the small boutique and mom & pop area.

[HartfordTycoon]

Nobody ever says "I won't move to Hartford. Their Gap and J. Crew are in a mall, not a lifestyle center.

[jcrc]

Thanks for illustrating my opinion that people from major metros in the country can't survive in environments with all mom & pops and no big name retailers. We need to get with the times and compete if we ever want to stop hemorrhaging young residents away. We are not building this stuff for the people of past generations who could not get Hartford where it needed to be. This is for the future.

[mikel]

You'd be surprised. What do you think they mean when they say there are no good or not enough shopping options/areas? Everyone knows about the malls being there. The malls aren't cutting it. That's the problem.

We all know the same people they want to stroll around WHC and go the movies at BBS are not the same people who would have gone to movies showing at the Elm. We have to live in reality unfortunately and play the cards we were dealt. That's why it's all neccessary.

[HartfordTycoon]

When people are going to New York to shop, do you think they are going to chains? No, they are going to the all the unique stores where they can get a deal or Chinatown. Tell me exactly, what chain do we need in the area? I would like to see Urban Outfitters here, but they aren't going into a lifestyle center. The exact same stores that are already in the malls and Evergreen Walk and Canton would go in there. What people would like is shopping downtown, any shopping. Stackpole and Tuesday's and the others are great, but there needs to be more.

Also, the Elm closed because of the film industry, not because people weren't willing to go there. The big film industry today makes it very difficult for theatres like that to stay open. I could go into detail, but Criterion is a chain and will have multiple screens, and can be successful because of that.

[uconn99]

What doyou guys think of this?

http://www.kierlandcommons.com/

[mikel]

You know, I really don't disagree on much of what you have you say. I know why people shop in NYC, I'm one of them. With that said WHC is not Manhattan and never will be and even in Manhatten the chains are abundant due to the economics of the area. I could see if the region was growing by leaps and bounds doing very well with our boutiques being satisfied with it. But that's a far cry from the current situation.

I am saying exactly that, and I know it to be true. Most young people do most of their shopping at "cookie cutter stores." Sneakers from Foot Locker, panties from Vicki's Secret, Khakis from the Gap. People don't want to have to hit the highway to get this stuff anymore. In order for todays young people to find a place attractive they want it to be set up a certain way and Greater Hartford is far from it. We a are getting closer without ruining what we have. That's where I take issue with some comments I've seen here. It's as if all that we have had will just suddenly dry up because some new developments came to town. What's going to happen though is college kids will want to live there and then they will want to stay there because they will have so much fun in their college years. Keeping your college kids around after graduation who are not natives of the area is the best way to grow population. These types of developments do cater to that sought after demographic like it or not.

[jcrc]

I am saying exactly that, and I know it to be true. Most young people do most of their shopping at "cookie cutter stores." Sneakers from Foot Locker, panties from Vicki's Secret, Khakis from the Gap. People don't want to have to hit the highway to get this stuff anymore. In order for todays young people to find a place attractive they want it to be set up a certain way and Greater Hartford is far from it. We a are getting closer without ruining what we have. That's where I take issue with some comments I've seen here. It's as if all that we have had will just suddenly dry up because some new developments came to town. What's going to happen though is college kids will want to live there and then they will want to stay there because they will have so much fun in their college years. Keeping your college kids around after graduation who are not natives of the area is the best way to grow population. These types of developments do cater to that sought after demographic like it or not.

[Luca Brasi]

The problem with chains is if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Go to the GAP in MAnhattan and you'll see the same exact merchandise at the GAP in Tuscaloosa Alabama. I can't think of anything more boring.

[HartfordTycoon]

Young people will not be living at BBS, have you seen the rents? Plus the stores in these places are all the same, Coldwater Creek, Talbots, Chico's, Anthropologie, Crate & Barrel, Brooks Brothers, Jos A. Bank, J. Jill, etc. The same stores already at Somerset Square, Evergreen Walk, etc. These places are not built for young people, quite the contrary.

[HartfordTycoon]

You are stereotyping young people into one singular type, you are of course entitle to your opinion, but I disagree. While I am not saying Hartford/BBS should have no chains, I think if all we have are chain stores, it will be awful boring. If you look at New Haven, and this is not a comparison to New York or Boston, nor is this a they are better than we are flame bait, around Chapel Street, shops are mostly indies, or small regional shops, mix in with a few upscale national chains. I don't see young people leaving because they can't find Gap or Foot Locker or Victoria Secret.

[drc72]

You're against small business. In none of those places will you find most small shops open on Sunday. Do you know why? Because the people that work there need a day off. It's amazing the ignorance in this forum.

[jcrc]

This is about convenience. People don't want to get on the highway and park 2 miles away (exaggeration, obviously) from the Mall entrance only to walk another few thousand feet just to go to one store and turn around. That's the way I see it and feel about it anyway. I'm going to shop at many chains. They might as well make that action more convenient.

[Lone Ranger]

The problem with chains is if you've been to one, you've been to them all. Go to the GAP in MAnhattan and you'll see the same exact merchandise at the GAP in Tuscaloosa Alabama. I can't think of anything more boring.

[daroberts]

I just think, for Hartford at least, artsy fartsy semi upscale type of places will give Hartford more of a competitive edge to attract people to move to Hartford, and for suburbanites to visit Hartford. We all know people didn't shop at Gap on Pratt Street.

[jcrc]

This is sort of like the thread debating if chain restaurants or indies are better. It's safe to say some people like safety and predictability, other are more independent and adventuresome. One thing I will say, we already have uniformity, i.e. chains and malls in suburban setting, it would be preferable to have some uniqueness in the urban setting.

[jcrc]

Bingo - Nimby's, Bus leaves hartford twice daily to Vermont.

[HartfordTycoon]

I just thought of another point. The chain stores also will serve as sources of employment for many more people than the mom and pops. That's just a fact. So the jobs will benefit many of the high school and college aged crowd, but also older adults who choose to work in service industries. There will be at least 2 to 3 times as many jobs in BBS than there are in the old center. That's another advantage to having well financed chains that can provide decent employment complete with benefits. That's another reason we need more chains in the struggling neighborhoods. Kids in struggling neighborhoods in Atlanta, where I used to live, at least had chains that hired people. In the north end there is virtually no employment. I hope with the redevelopment of Bowles Park and Westbrook Village that will soon change. Needing the chains is just a basic economic fact the way I see it.

[chuck!]

I just thought of another point. The chain stores also will serve as sources of employment for many more people than the mom and pops. That's just a fact. So the jobs will benefit many of the high school and college aged crowd, but also older adults who choose to work in service industries. There will be at least 2 to 3 times as many jobs in BBS than there are in the old center. That's another advantage to having well financed chains that can provide decent employment complete with benefits. That's another reason we need more chains in the struggling neighborhoods. Kids in struggling neighborhoods in Atlanta, where I used to live, at least had chains that hired people. In the north end there is virtually no employment. I hope with the redevelopment of Bowles Park and Westbrook Village that will soon change. Needing the chains is just a basic economic fact the way I see it.

[HartfordTycoon]

What is actually needed is community education programs that teach people how to run a business, how to conceptualize a business, and how community economics work.