Smoking ban in all MI bars and restaurants

[OneSweetWorld]

http://www.mlive.com/search/index.ssf?/bas...e?NE&coll=1

From Sunday's Lansing Bureau:

"The Campaign for Smokefree Air, which includes the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society and the American Heart Association, wants Michigan to join a growing number of states that ban smoking in restaurants and bars.

'The nonsmoking sections are not protecting people,' said Judy Stewart, campaign manager for the Campaign for Smokefree Air. 'You're still being exposed to second-hand smoke. It's still dangerous, it's still harmful.'"

NOTE: Sorry, the question isnt very clear.

Absolutely means FOR

Absolutely Not means against

[tamias6]

You bet your biffy I'm in full tilt support of a Smoking in Bar and Resturunt Ban for MI! I've dined in places where it does absolutley no good to have a nonsmoking section. I remember eating at the Cracker Berrel in the non smoking section and two dried up old hags where puffing on their cigi-butts like a factories smoke stacks in the smoking section two tables away. It seem that all the second hand smoke was driffing towords me and my family like a magnet. Boy, talk about a ruined meal. As annoying as that was the bad thing about it is it bumped up our chances of dying a slow and horrible death from lung cancer a few notches. I've stoped eating in places with a smoking section because of the health risks of second hand smoke. Now I'm sure there are folks out there that are against it and will post an angry-gram on this thread which will state somthing like this.

"You people that are against smoking and want to ban it are a bunch of do-gooder Nazis. We smokers have a right to smoke."

So, anti-smoking ban people, to save some energy, here's my preemptive reply to that. This also applies to all individuals that choose the dark path of stupidity.

"You can be stupid all you want. But just don't do it at my expense."

Smoking is a stupid habit and perfectly illustrate a sufficient level of stupidiy to take one's one life in the most painful way possible. If you want to smoke and die a slow horrible death do it in the pricacy of your own home. Why? Because I and others who choose to be non-smokers and enjoy the refreshing crispness of breathing clean untainted air don't want to dragged down into the same pit of unspeakable pain and suffering that is the end result of a stupid habit. In short smokers don't have the right to deprive me of breathing clean air and impose their lung cancer on me. If a state law can help insure I can breath smoke free air and not have my meal ruined by bunch of morons that are killing themselves, then let's make the idea a law.

[OneSweetWorld]

I don't think this is an issue of the government trying to tell people how to live their lives. I think it's an issue of public health. Telling people they can't smoke in their own home or in their car would be wrong, but telling someone they can't smoke around someone else's litte kids is absuletly the right thing to do.

I think if maybe something was done to create an ordinance that requires restaurants to have a good buffer between the two sections, it would be better than banning it all together.

[tracer1138]

As a libertarian, I'm constantly attempting to reconcile the often competing interests of individual freedom and the common good, and the smoking issue has always been a thorn in my side. But as far as my current opinion goes, I think the two previous posts nailed it on the head!

Also, from what I've heard, completely hearsay mind you, in states that banned smoking in bars and restaurants like Massachusetts and New Jersey, those bars and restaurants actually saw an increase in patronage.

[Veloise]

How does one vote "absolutely" or "not" on an either-or question?

[ericnmu]

I've been to a couple restaurants in Wisconsin, and they had completely glassed off areas for the smokers. Here some (probable) facts from one of the WI health websites.

• Smokers do not quit eating in their favorite restaurant when it goes smoke free, they just quit smoking in it.

• 25% of smokers prefer smoke free dining, and most others accept it.

• Smokers go to restaurants because they favor the food, not because they are allowed to smoke.

• For every smoker a restaurant might lose, they stand to gain two nonsmokers,

• When going smoke free they regained nonsmoking customers they had lost in the past, and attracted new customers who simply did not eat out because of tobacco smoke.

[OneSweetWorld]

How does one vote "absolutely" or "not" on an either-or question?

[ericnmu]

Theres always gotta be an antogonist who must complain about everything, huh?

I'm sorry that a "YES", "NO", or "not sure" isn't good enough for you. How many other options are there? "NYEOS"?

[tamias6]

Funny, I read the poll's question the right way. There is three option to pick from.

1. Absolutely--means "yes"

2. Absolutly Not---means "No"

3. I don't know--means "can't decide."

So its pretty much dummy proof.

[OneSweetWorld]

Well the question does say "for or against", so unless your are undecided, every vote should be yes (absolutely). Or the answers should read Absolutely for, Absolutely against.

I did have to read the questions and answers a couple times just to make sure I was answering the right way.

[Veloise]

Funny, I read the poll's question the right way. There are three options to pick from.

1. Absolutely--means "yes"

2. Absolutely Not---means "No"

3. I don't know--means "can't decide."

So it's pretty much dummy proof.

[VeeFan]

As a libertarian, I'm constantly attempting to reconcile the often competing interests of individual freedom and the common good, and the smoking issue has always been a thorn in my side. But as far as my current opinion goes, I think the two previous posts nailed it on the head!

Also, from what I've heard, completely hearsay mind you, in states that banned smoking in bars and restaurants like Massachusetts and New Jersey, those bars and restaurants actually saw an increase in patronage.

[blueradon]

I think if we feel so strongly about banning smoking in restaurants and bars...I think we should take some action. There's www.petitiononline.com. If we could gather up reference points for some of the benefits that it did for other cities, and then together prepare a letter for our state legislator, Granholm, or everyone, I think we could definitely get enough signatures (granted also that everyone spreads the word so we can get as many signatures as possible.

What do you guys say?

I'm serious enough as to make a website for it or at least a blog or something. It's better than sitting here and discussing about it and then moving on to other threads.

Are there other petitions that have maybe already been started? I'll do some research to see if I can come up with anything.

[Loughlin]

I dont know about you guys but i cant live without my mid meal Camel, I think out right banning smoking in bars and restaraunts is rediculous, does that mean i think non-smokers should have to deal with the smoke, no. But i think it would be better to have like a an enclosed wall rule for the smoking sections or mandatory heavy duty smoking air filters. It seams like people almost have a hate for smokers, the only justification i see for banning it is that it is a minor annoyance, i mean how much longer are people going to keep going with the whole second hand smoke kills thing.

[Veloise]

I dont know about you guys but i cant live without my mid meal Camel, I think out right banning smoking in bars and restaraunts is rediculous, does that mean i think non-smokers should have to deal with the smoke, no. But i think it would be better to have like a an enclosed wall rule for the smoking sections or mandatory heavy duty smoking air filters. It seams like people almost have a hate for smokers, the only justification i see for banning it is that it is a minor annoyance, i mean how much longer are people going to keep going with the whole second hand smoke kills thing.

[tamias6]

What about the servers? They would still have to enter a smoke filled space? Also I've been to a restaraunt in GR that had walled off its smoking section. It doesn't work. I still was breathing a chest full of second hand smoke drifting into the non-smoking section via doors leading into that space. Let's face the facts, smokers are killing themselves and puting others at risk just to satify the urges of a stupid habit. Thus to garantee non-smokers the right to breath clean air and avoid the potenial slow and horrible death brought on by sombody eles's stupid habit, its time to give smokers one more reason to do the right thing. That is to quit.

I dont know about you guys but i cant live without my mid meal Camel, I think out right banning smoking in bars and restaraunts is rediculous, does that mean i think non-smokers should have to deal with the smoke, no. But i think it would be better to have like a an enclosed wall rule for the smoking sections or mandatory heavy duty smoking air filters. It seams like people almost have a hate for smokers, the only justification i see for banning it is that it is a minor annoyance, i mean how much longer are people going to keep going with the whole second hand smoke kills thing.

[snoogit]

I think if we feel so strongly about banning smoking in restaurants and bars...I think we should take some action. There's www.petitiononline.com. If we could gather up reference points for some of the benefits that it did for other cities, and then together prepare a letter for our state legislator, Granholm, or everyone, I think we could definitely get enough signatures (granted also that everyone spreads the word so we can get as many signatures as possible.

What do you guys say?

I'm serious enough as to make a website for it or at least a blog or something. It's better than sitting here and discussing about it and then moving on to other threads.

Are there other petitions that have maybe already been started? I'll do some research to see if I can come up with anything.

[tamias6]

Petitions can be helpful. But like any tool in one's tool box, they are just one piece of the puzzle.

Petition online is as useful as picking your own nose.

If you want results you need to contact local congressmen.

Start here:

http://house.michigan.gov/ and here: http://senate.michigan.gov/

Like me, I'll be sending Dave Agema and Wayne Kuipers an e-mail here later today for sure, and maybe even sending one to Jennifer Granholm as well.

Find your congresspeople Michigan!

http://senate.michigan.gov/SenatorInfo/alp...enators2003.htm

http://house.michigan.gov/replist.asp

[mr.rwilson]

It should be up to the indiviual restaurant or bar. People have a choice about where they go out to eat so if you dont want to be in a smoke filled room go to a non smoking restaurant. how simple is that?

[GRDadof3]

It should be up to the indiviual restaurant or bar. People have a choice about where they go out to eat so if you dont want to be in a smoke filled room go to a non smoking restaurant. how simple is that?

[mr.rwilson]

I

[GRDadof3]

I

[mr.rwilson]

Wrong. For one thing, many non-smokers do choose to NOT GO to restaurants that allow smoking. How would a business owner even know? Even with non-smoking sections, the smoke travels throughout the entire restaurant. That means we don't have a choice, we have to put up with smokers while we eat or eat somewhere else, which is unacceptable to many. I don't like watching people pick their nose or their butt-crack at a restaurant, so why should we have to endure this bad habit? On top of that, cigarette smoke has been proven to be unhealthy to those who don't smoke. I have three kids, should I just have them drink paint thinner while we're at the restaurant. If you don't like paint-thinner, just stay at home and let other people drink paint thinner.

If the State puts every restaurant on a level playing field and outlaws smoking, that's a better way to go. Otherwise, business owners have to take a risk and go non-smoking.

This is not a libertarian issue. This is a health issue and it's archaic. Might as well get used to the fact that there will be a ban at some point in the near future in Michigan. Prepare now if you are a restaurant and/or bar owner.

[tracer1138]

what excatly was wrong with my point? All i am saying is that if restaurant owners start to see their guest counts decline they WILL go to non smoking. MONEY TALKS but as of right now i dont think enough people have a huge problem with it. I still dont see how you dont have a choice, all you have to do is take your kids to a restaurant that is non smoking, it will solve all of your problems. Im not really sure what having your kids drink paint thinner has to do with anything, but to each his own i guess.

[mr.rwilson]

While you're right that money talks and market forces are indeed powerful in affecting people's actions, one of the points I think GRDadof3 was trying to make was that if a restauranter sees a dip in business, there really isn't any way of knowing the cause - there are so many variables involved in running a successful restaurant. For the market to function properly in this case you need perfect information which is clearly not the case. Therefore we could call out a market failure here.