DwnTwnRaleighGuy

Southeast Raleigh

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On a bright note much of southeast Raleigh including RockQuarry Road and Poole road on the farther extents and even Garner Road has shown a great deal of infill development in the last few years with more on the drawing board. The land in this part of the city is much cheaper and so I expect this trend to continue. In fact there are several large projects planned near the walnut creek amphitheater area. Reminicient of some of the More affluent areas of the city.

The really blighted areas in my opinion are those blocks immediately south and east of the core of downtown and a stretch near newbern/poole roads.

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Referring to this area as "the hood" is very condescending.

Please.

I like the idea of restoration for the areas just east of downtown. The Saunders St. area, though, I think would be better to bulldoze and put in 3 story row houses with on-street parking to make it a high density residential buffer between Dix and downtown proper. This could be a really neat area to live one day.

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why is it that there isn't a wake tech campus in a more centralized location, instead of building one all the way out by Garner, and the new one being built way out off 540?

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why is it that there isn't a wake tech campus in a more centralized location, instead of building one all the way out by Garner, and the new one being built way out off 540?

Because it's a commuter school and commuters have cars around here. It's cheaper to buy a bunch of land and put parking lots on it in the burbs then to build parking decks downtown. Sure it would be nice to have light rail or better bus service for commuters, but when you are taking classes after work and need to get home quickly afterwards, public transit will be a tough sell.

JB

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3. Most people in the community are convinced that *any* improvements will lead to gentrification. They don't want new middle class residents in the area, as it will make lower class residents not able to afford to live there any more.

Yeah, this is a topic that was touched on here regarding a developer's project on Fayetteville Street in Durham, I believe. However in that case, the developer made committments to have space reserved for present tenants into his new, renewed property.

I think that's probably a good angle to approach improving these types of neighborhoods.

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There is/was a Wake Tech satellite inside the beltline. It is in the side of the Raleigh Flea Market Mall on Captial Blvd. north of Bobby Murray Chevrolet and other sites around the county are also used.

Why wouldn't Wake Tech work downtown? Parking for night commuters??? There is plenty of free parking in city-owned decks up and down Wilmington Street. There is a free shuttle from Moore Square to Wake Tech for people who leave Wake Tech by 5:15. Night students are SOL.

Why are all but one of Wake Tech's campus sites just inside the Beltline (N&O/Flea Market Mall, Wake Med) or well outside it? Could they not partner with Shaw, St. Augs., and NC State to use their existing classroom space? Or Peace and Merideth Colleges if there are any women-only classes? Is spending millions of dollars to build a sprawling campus off 401 serving the citizens who need it most, or keeping education even further out of reach from Southeast Raleigh?

For existing residents who want to stay in the neighborhood, a combination of Section 8 vouchers and construction of new affordable units -- Capitol Park, Carlton Place, and new Chavis Heights -- are available options. The housing authority complains that its waiting list is a mile long, forcing thousands of people in the waiting arms of slumlords.

<start sarcasam, though I hope this doesn't give the John Locke Foundation or anyone else ideas>

Since the land is so cheap and the "blight" needs to go away, maybe the "Friends of Dix" can expand their reach and call themselves "Friends of Southeast Raleigh" and proposed a 5,000+ acre park! Kill two birds with one stone! Err, save some birds, and displace others. Then all the adjacent land will be worth even more! Hooray!

It already worked once! Look at the neighborhood south of Cabarrus, between Salisbury and Blount! Oh wait, you can't since it is gone. They didn't get the Pope House, but almost everything else was "revitalized' to the ground.

Referring to an area as 'da hood isn't condesending! It is a term of endearment, like Ruff Raleigh! It helps enforce a stereotype to justify the city's lack of investment in the area in the past, and to put focus on areas that *really* need help! Think of the needs of poor North Hills East, Neuse-River-bridgeless-Wakefield, four-star-hotelless Crabtree area, and parkless East Raleigh. Why spend any money in southeast Raleigh??? You'll probably get jacked in the process, so don't bother.

<end sarcasam>

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Please.

I feel that calling Southeast Raleigh the "hood" is degrading, as well. There is a much more mature way to talk about Southeast Raleigh. Let's be adults, here. There are plenty of good and decent people, poor and non-poor, who live in that area and I don't think any of them would appreciate it.

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The strictest definition (by Webster) of "hood" is "a neighborhood and especially an inner-city neighborhood.". Nothing derogatory there. The term got popular in the late 80's as a replacement for "ghetto", but guess who coined the phrase? People who lived in the neighborhoods themselves. So if it is "derogatory", go tell them that the word they decided to use frequently as a term of endearment in a sense of positive, uplifting hope, is , in fact, insulting to them. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you. Semantics only modifies the icing and does nothing to change the cake.

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The strictest definition (by Webster) of "hood" is "a neighborhood and especially an inner-city neighborhood.". Nothing derogatory there. The term got popular in the late 80's as a replacement for "ghetto", but guess who coined the phrase? People who lived in the neighborhoods themselves. So if it is "derogatory", go tell them that the word they decided to use frequently as a term of endearment in a sense of positive, uplifting hope, is , in fact, insulting to them. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you. Semantics only modifies the icing and does nothing to change the cake.

Well said!

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I feel that calling Southeast Raleigh the "hood" is degrading, as well. There is a much more mature way to talk about Southeast Raleigh. Let's be adults, here. There are plenty of good and decent people, poor and non-poor, who live in that area and I don't think any of them would appreciate it.

The strictest definition (by Webster) of "hood" is "a neighborhood and especially an inner-city neighborhood.". Nothing derogatory there. The term got popular in the late 80's as a replacement for "ghetto", but guess who coined the phrase? People who lived in the neighborhoods themselves. So if it is "derogatory", go tell them that the word they decided to use frequently as a term of endearment in a sense of positive, uplifting hope, is , in fact, insulting to them. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you. Semantics only modifies the icing and does nothing to change the cake.

I think the word is misplaced here. Southeast Raleigh is not, in its entirety, the 'ghetto'. We are adults, we can always find better words to use to describe something, even if the easiest words to use are partly true. This forums should highlight some of the areas of our city that have been somewhat ignored. We should be making suggestions on ways to improve the area, protecting cultural value at the same time, and better intergrating these areas into the rest of the city.

I think this forum kind of exemplifies what has happened to the Southeast part of Raleigh. It has been easier to say that other areas of the city are better, that there is more money in other areas. But it shouldn't be about that, because Southeast Raleigh has lots of potential waiting to be harvested. The south and east sides of Downtown are probably have the most potential. These areas are the perfect areas for the the mixed (income and use) development we all want for Raleigh.

Now, what suggestions can we make guys? What can we do to change some of the problems we see?

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The strictest definition (by Webster) of "hood" is "a neighborhood and especially an inner-city neighborhood.". Nothing derogatory there. The term got popular in the late 80's as a replacement for "ghetto", but guess who coined the phrase? People who lived in the neighborhoods themselves. So if it is "derogatory", go tell them that the word they decided to use frequently as a term of endearment in a sense of positive, uplifting hope, is , in fact, insulting to them. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you. Semantics only modifies the icing and does nothing to change the cake.

There is a similar argument to the use of the N-word, but that's a whole different discussion.

I've never found the word hood to be offensive or derogatory to anyone until this thread.

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There is a similar argument to the use of the N-word, but that's a whole different discussion.

I've never found the word hood to be offensive or derogatory to anyone until this thread.

I'm not losing any sleep over it. It was just an observation.

I'm glad this area is being talked about, and I enjoyed the pictures and the discussion. I lived on East Martin St for 3 1/2 years, so this area is of interest to me.

But, seeing a thread titled "adventures in the hood," filled with pictures of lower income, mostly black households was kinda jarring to me.

If the word is so inoffensive, go knock on the door of one of these houses and ask them how they like living in "the hood."

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I'm not losing any sleep over it. It was just an observation.

I'm glad this area is being talked about, and I enjoyed the pictures and the discussion. I lived on East Martin St for 3 1/2 years, so this area is of interest to me.

But, seeing a thread titled "adventures in the hood," filled with pictures of lower income, mostly black households was kinda jarring to me.

If the word is so inoffensive, go knock on the door of one of these houses and ask them how they like living in "the hood."

Thank you.

I think the the misunderstanding is this. Uppercrust america have been wrapped under the assumption that images that are portrayed in entertainment are parrallel to reality. Wrong! There is nothing exciting or glamorous about being poor. This perception of "hood" america is that everything is all good, and anyone poor is just plain lazy. They're just spending all of their money on bling and rims, right? That's a real easy accusation to make when you've never experienced living in undesirable conditions. I find myself being a very fortunate individual, because I could have been caught in the same downward spiral of ghetto life myself.

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The strictest definition (by Webster) of "hood" is "a neighborhood and especially an inner-city neighborhood.". Nothing derogatory there. The term got popular in the late 80's as a replacement for "ghetto", but guess who coined the phrase? People who lived in the neighborhoods themselves. So if it is "derogatory", go tell them that the word they decided to use frequently as a term of endearment in a sense of positive, uplifting hope, is , in fact, insulting to them. I'm sure they'll be happy to hear from you. Semantics only modifies the icing and does nothing to change the cake.

I beg your pardon. But while blacks have taken the word and used it with a positive connotation (which is completely fine and acceptable), I don't think its breaking news that when white majority uses the word "hood" it is mostly used in a negative connotation. I think that is the case with many words, including the "n word" with blacks and the use of "queer" by gay and lesbian people. I know that if I used the word "hood" in a conversation with some of my black friends, aquaintances, and co-workers, they would be offended because of the perception that its being used to degrade a predominantly poor, black neighborhood.

In your eyes, semantics may only modify the icing, but perception is reality, my friend, and the way we talk about an issue or a place and the words we use can help keep a conversation and discussion credible and based on merits and not on slurs and name-calling.

I think the word is misplaced here. Southeast Raleigh is not, in its entirety, the 'ghetto'. We are adults, we can always find better words to use to describe something, even if the easiest words to use are partly true. This forums should highlight some of the areas of our city that have been somewhat ignored. We should be making suggestions on ways to improve the area, protecting cultural value at the same time, and better intergrating these areas into the rest of the city.

I think this forum kind of exemplifies what has happened to the Southeast part of Raleigh. It has been easier to say that other areas of the city are better, that there is more money in other areas. But it shouldn't be about that, because Southeast Raleigh has lots of potential waiting to be harvested. The south and east sides of Downtown are probably have the most potential. These areas are the perfect areas for the the mixed (income and use) development we all want for Raleigh.

Now, what suggestions can we make guys? What can we do to change some of the problems we see?

Thanks for that.

I'm not losing any sleep over it. It was just an observation.

I'm glad this area is being talked about, and I enjoyed the pictures and the discussion. I lived on East Martin St for 3 1/2 years, so this area is of interest to me.

But, seeing a thread titled "adventures in the hood," filled with pictures of lower income, mostly black households was kinda jarring to me.

If the word is so inoffensive, go knock on the door of one of these houses and ask them how they like living in "the hood."

My point exactly. I don't think they'd be happy about it.

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The first time I visited Raleigh, I accidentally drove into an area of town like that. Probably that neighborhood. It led me to think all Raleigh was the 'hood', but subsequent visits proved that that is definitely not the case :)

Now I get it... this sounds like "positive, uplifting hope" to me. The urban dictionary is loaded with derogatory uses.

I'll make the same suggestions I have been making:

Fix up the boarded up houses shown in this thread's pictures up to livable standards would be a good start. Doing so 1) adds residents close to downtown who can walk to work and adds vitality 2) creates various jobs in the area for electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. 3) removes blight and a potential den for illicity activities.

Education in two forms -- 1) more local students being able to attend the area's magnet schools -- Washington, Moore Square Middle, Enloe, etc. Currently residents are bused to out to maintain economic diversity in other schools to open more desks in magent programs for outsiders. 2) Area schools, in the neighborhood (Shaw, St. Augs) and nearby (Wake Tech, NC State, Peace, Meredith) provide classes that residents can attend to increase their earning (and purchasing) potential. For every visible corner drug dealer or prostitue on the street, there are at least three or four "invisible" janitors, fast food workers, and other minimum wage earners barely getting by.

Useful retail. When residents have to spend a disproporionate amount of money on gas or bus/cab fare (to say nothing of time) to purchase basic essentials, the chance of saving up for anything fades away. Corner stores that sell alcohol are self-fufilling that scare off potential customers and therefore are "giving the community what it wants". Then the community is full of people who want to drink 40s and "validates" the store owner's view.

Tieing in to the downtown boom. Why should only streets in the CBD and to the west be considered "livable"? The streets to the east are just as livible, and affordable to boot. There is plenty of free parking that does not require land-gobbling garages or parking decks.

Community policing. Raleigh police need to be able to demonstrate that someone calling in to complain about a drug dealer won't face stiff retribution from criminals and/or gangs. People need good neighbors they can feel safe around, but also need to make an effort to form a community that watches out for one another. Neighborhood watch signs mean nothing if there is no one to back them up. I also conducted a few neighborhood cleanups to (temporarily) remove some of the trash that outside criminals leave to add to the area's blight. "Eviction trash" in one of the pictures needs to be handled in a better way. With the recent murders, there has been an uptick in community policing interest, but then dies down as time passes.

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Well said!

Semantics.

It's been quite obvious for some time now that the term "inner city" means black area. So referring to a place as the "hood" more than likely conjures up the thoughts of high crime, impoverished, black neighborhoods. Any words such as c**n, n*****, h**ds, or b***h, can never be seen in a positive light by my eyes. Any blacks you see popularizing, embracing, such words, are just victoms of their own ignorance.

Edited by serapis

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Most of those houses are probably run by slumlords who refuse to invest any money. What gets me is the city of Raleigh will target a coffeeshop for using wood planters but won't make the slumlords maintain a inhabited house.

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Its funny how willrusso, the photographer, took all those pictures of the area between SE Raleigh and Downtown, but somehow forgot to include more pictures of Shaw University, the 2nd oldest historically black college/university in the nation, which is right at the doorstep of downtown. ALL those pictures form a loop around Shaw, but he failed to even get a good campus view picture of the campus..... www.shawuniversity.edu. St. Augustine College (another HBCU), is not far from that Bojangles picture either, so Southeast Raleigh is not all gloom and doom.

Anyway, SE has its issues definitely, but it still has a high concentration of blacks of all income levels, but there is room for improvement much like any other place in Raleigh. Also, those pictures are the most "urban" or closest to downtown part of Southeast, there are plenty of sprawl friendly developments a few miles away. Also, there are plans to put some condo highrises in near Wake Med. Besides that, vice takes place all over Raleigh, just because it has a manicured lawn in front of it doesn't it mean "illegal" activity isn't happening.

I'm done.

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Its funny how willrusso, the photographer, took all those pictures of the area between SE Raleigh and Downtown, but somehow forgot to include more pictures of Shaw University, the 2nd oldest historically black college/university in the nation, which is right at the doorstep of downtown. ALL those pictures form a loop around Shaw, but he failed to even get a good campus view picture of the campus..... www.shawuniversity.edu. St. Augustine College (another HBCU), is not far from that Bojangles picture either, so Southeast Raleigh is not all gloom and doom.

Anyway, SE has its issues definitely, but it still has a high concentration of blacks of all income levels, but there is room for improvement much like any other place in Raleigh. Also, those pictures are the most "urban" or closest to downtown part of Southeast, there are plenty of sprawl friendly developments a few miles away. Also, there are plans to put some condo highrises in near Wake Med. Besides that, vice takes place all over Raleigh, just because it has a manicured lawn in front of it doesn't it mean "illegal" activity isn't happening.

I'm done.

Didn't you post that same post in my thread at SSC? LOL.

Edited by willrusso

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Most of those houses are probably run by slumlords who refuse to invest any money. What gets me is the city of Raleigh will target a coffeeshop for using wood planters but won't make the slumlords maintain a inhabited house.

The city *did* a test program to crack down on slumlords. They tried a community-backed plan of "concentrated code enforcement" in the Thompson-Hunter area roughly bounded by New Bern, Tarboro/Rock Quarry, Cabarrus and East streets. Regretably, the people hired to perform inspections serverly lacked customer service skills. They threatened to call the police if residents, most of whom are elderly renters, would not comply. Also, slumlords found a loophole in which they somehow could refuse to allow inspectors in their properties.

The neighborhood has tolerated slumlords because several are African-American, so they look at the issue as supporting a community business. Lower quality housing also keeps rents in check, allowing for people to afford a house instead of an apartment. A drafty window or an occasionally leaky roof is a small price to pay for no-strings-attached, market driven "afforable housing".

As a result, Southeast Raleigh, specifically South Park, called for an immediate end of the program and the city complied. Now the city is in a "dammed if they do, dammed if they don't" situation in the area. Houses have fallen under disrepair because the city looked the other way for decades. This was done at the request of citizens who didn't want the city to interfere in their business the way did in the area of the convention center. In the 80s and 90s, the city was all to happy to comply, diverting infrastructure and other money from the south, east and downtown to the north and west parts of Raleigh.

The two college campuses contribute little to the surrounding community. How many Shaw or St. Augs alumni live in the immediate surrounding area? Many get jobs in other cities and states, but the ones that stay in Raleigh oftem move off of New Bern Ave. and Poole Road outside the Beltline. Residents of Downtown East move out as soon as they save enough money to afford to. A few have bought property in the neighborhood, but most are tired of the drugs and crime and move elsewhere.

Until a few years ago, Shaw turned its back on the community. With their "new" chancellor (who also restarted Shaw's football program), Shaw has a program where students go into the community to see if they can provide assistance of any kind. They could do more, like not using fencing that feels like a mininmum security prison, but hopefully that will come with time. St. Augs has started a community development corporation, but so far it has only been used to sell off the city's CDBG property to middle income residents.

When vices take place in well manicured lawn neighborhoods, they don't lead to secondary crime for several blocks in every direction. Where in North Raleigh is there a well-established, known open air drug market on the scale of those on Bragg Street and the 700 block of east Martin? Crimes commited out of sight behind fancy McMansion doors are more tolerable, but they don't serve as a daily reminder of how bad life can be. They also don't serve drug addicts who panhandle, sell their body and/or steal from the surrounding community to feed their habit.

No one will plant flowers or bushes if they might get stolen, which happened every spring for a few years. I don't know if this was done by dealers trying to keep the neighborhood down, or someone who knew a pawn shop that paid for shrubs and hanging basket flowers.

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To me, since I drive through there on my way to and from school, people detach it from its roots when they consider it from an economic perspective. Since i drive there everyday i see little kids playing around where people who are obviously hookers walk by, and i see the swat team raid someones house while their elderly neighbors watch in horror. It is not just a problem for downtown, it is not just a problem of economics, and it has NOTHING TO DO with race. Yes south park is a historically black neighborhood, but you can still find trailor parks all around wake county! South park is just an example of how cities and governments completely ignore PEOPLE but spend 300million dollars on a convention center to attract some business. What a shame. South park, and all poor people deserve better.

And on the topic of the words "hood" "######" and "black" they are only deragatory because you use them that way or they were perverted from their original meaning. I think that if you are truly colorblind you dont say "african-american" because the fact that someone's skin is black is just that, a FACT. Its not a means to judge or a reflection of character, its a fact. Just like the fact that someone's hair is brown or their eyes are blue.

I wonder if actually typing out the n word will get this post deleted...

WEIRD! If you type ###### it turns into number signs!

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And on the topic of the words "hood" "######" and "black" they are only deragatory because you use them that way or they were perverted from their original meaning. I think that if you are truly colorblind you dont say "african-american" because the fact that someone's skin is black is just that, a FACT. Its not a means to judge or a reflection of character, its a fact. Just like the fact that someone's hair is brown or their eyes are blue.

I wonder if actually typing out the n word will get this post deleted...

WEIRD! If you type ###### it turns into number signs!

What??!!... I'm confused LOL :huh:

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