Southeast Raleigh

[ChiefJoJo]

I was talking with Bob Geary about the alleys in Cameron Park, and he said the city wants no part of those either, so at least it's not a class or race issue. The city just doesn't want to expend resources on little used "streets." I think the best solution would be for the city to set up a small program that funded the HOAs in those communities that have alleys and gave the associations the responsibilty for maintenance. There are so few alleys in the city relative to the numbers of homes (mostly in pre-WWI housing), that it would not be a major undertaking. Then again, if there are so few, why can't the city do it?

[zande]

I was talking with Bob Geary about the alleys in Cameron Park, and he said the city wants no part of those either, so at least it's not a class or race issue.

Maybe it is not a race or class issue.... maybe... I think that part of the issue is that ppl in other neighborhoods just know how to raise more effective "caine" with the City, ppl in other neighborhoods are more likely to own their homes and thus care for their adjacent alleys themselves and other neighborhoods pay more taxes... I think home ownership has more to do with it though. Homeowners are more likely to at least pick up the garbage

As an aside, the City still has millions of $$ ready to go into that neighborhood but the very ppl who live their are still blocking it. I would imagine this attitude gets pretty tiresome for the City after a while.

[JeffC]

FWIW, the alleys in Glenwood/brooklyn (one of the trendiest neighborhoods ITB) are also in terrible shape. When I owned a house there, we and neighbors had loads of gravel brought in at our expense to fix the worst of the potholes. The Alley tneglect is a "city struggling to keep up with growth and prioritizing" thing, not a racial thing...

[ncwebguy]

Where do we draw the line on which streets deserver money and which ones don't? Some alleys have more traffic than some cul-de-sacs, yet the cul-de-sac will get repaired and the alley won't. Are the streets in Cameron Park and Glenwood-Brooklyn as bad as the alleys? No. Their alleyes are not repaired because the roads are maintained. Some areas get no help in the front (street) or back (alleys).

Do cities with large alley networks (Charleston? Richmond?) have these problems?

Other neighborhoods have crazy ideas like "keeping property from falling into disrepair", a concept that seems foreign to parts of SE Raleigh. But there does seem to be a "chicken and egg" scenario there with the city and property owners on opposite sides waiting for the other to make the first move.

The "tax and don't spend" attitude toward ITB Raleigh, and Southeast Raleigh in particular, is "how things are" but that doesn't make it correct. Throwing an overwhelming percentage of resources to other parts of the city year after year is why these alleys have fallen into disrepair in the first place. What could have been a small pothole repair is now the exposed dirt layer. On the other end of this alley (on Martin Street at the east end of the church that fronts Swain), the asphalt has been broken/worn away and the original bricks are visisble. The brickwork is a lot harder to maintain, so the city paved over it and hasn't touched it since.

[Jones_]

Throwing an overwhelming percentage of resources to other parts of the city year after year is why these alleys have fallen into disrepair in the first place.

This particularly makes me mad.....why is a new road in north Raleigh more important than repairing an alley downtown? Dig a 3 foot deep ditch in an alley that garbage trucks need access to and see if the City thinks it needs repaired then.

[ncwebguy]

A lot of alleys were used for garbage collection when the city was on backyard collection. With the rollout carts, alleys are starting to become irrevelant in places where carts have to be on the street, not the alley. Maintaining the alleys will be an even lower priority going forward.

Their use for parking access makes them useful in Cameron Park, Glenwood-Brooklyn, etc. but in Southeast Raleigh, this is not the case. Due to low vehcile ownership and the higher number of break-ins, parking is handled via driveways or on the street.

It is a shame, since alleys can allow for nicer streetscapes with higher density due to solving the "where to put the cars" issue. The Pilot Mill neighborhood (north of downtown, Peace College, and Capitol Park, west of Mordecai) does a great job with this, with streets in front of hosues and alleys providing access to two streets worth of garages on the backside.

Does anyone know if they have a home owners' assocation that maintains those alleys, or are those city streets as well? Houses there are starting to get to the 500k range, so there is demand for that kind of devlopment.

[RaleighRob]

Some good news for Southeast Raleigh....the Southgate Branch Library's expansion/renovation is done and they're reopening: http://raleighchronicle.com/2007050803.html

Now if only they can do one for the Harrison Branch on New Bern Ave...since that's probably the closest we'll ever get to a downtown branch. But I digress.

[ncwebguy]

On Saturday June 2nd, there will be a neighborhood cleanup and cook out at the YWCA on the 500 block of East Hargett.

The cleanup will start at 9, with pick up sticks, bags, and gloves provided.

(edit/add) I have done a few and think it has somewhat helped the neighborhood "fix broken windows".

From 11:30 - 1:30, there will be a neighborhood festival/cookout with hot dogs, popcorn, drinks, etc. on the YWCA property.

I don't know if I'll be there the whole time, since I have something else to do by 1 (blame Time Warner's Saturday hours...), but I'll hopefully be taking part in some of the festivities.

[ncwebguy]

The late night/early morning shooting at Black Tie may lead to the city taking a "good hard look" at the place.

I find it disgusting that Councilman West says the police need to look into closing it down, and WRAL reports Councilman Isley now says "this is a great concern." Despite people complaining for over a year, they only wants to do something now because someone was murdered. The club is owned and operated by an ex-Durham police officer, and that may have led to the city's hands-off approach so far.

The club has:

- had over 300 calls in the last six months, and has been a problem for police for over a year

- had to create its own private security firm because the old private security firm refused to be held liable for the escalating violence at the establishment.

- encouraged illegal parking on neighborhood sidewalks, paying all parking tickets the police issue.

- violated wetlands buffer zones to expand its parking, yet the city has done nothing.

- the inspections department has cited the club for fire code violations, including blocked access to fire exits.

yet the *city* has done nothing. The Supper Club and Fiesta were dealt with quickly. They lost their ability to serve alcohol, have amplified music, etc., in a matter of months. Those were *not* police actions, but the city's. Those clubs (and Plum Crazy's a few years ago) were in North Raleigh outside the beltline, and were dealt with quickly.

The parking enforcement operation that resulted in officers being within hearing distance of the shooting are not new. They have been ongoing since the club does not provide enough parking. The club also has spotters to look for approachign police cars from all directions. They arrested a 20 year old for DUI, yet the club was not charged with serving to a minor or letting a drunk driver leave the property.

Raleigh Police have to station officers at area late night restaurants, including the Cookout at New Bern and Tarboro and the Waffle House on New Bern just outside the beltline, to break up potential distruptions from club patrons. Gas stations south of New Bern oustide the beltline close early to keep club goers from stopping there.

In other news, the city is looking into selling off property it owns in the Martin/Haywood area since community development has been slow to move on the property. A committee was formed to replace the East Vision taskforce, yet has nothing to show for itself in the last year.

I have no idea what the committee has come up with despite being a resident and attending member on the original East Vision taskforce. Instead, chairs of two adjoining CACs now have more input than resdients or property owners in the area.

[RaleighRob]

- violated wetlands buffer zones to expand its parking, yet the city has done nothing.

Was this reported to the State? (Ie, Dept of Environment) They really have the jurisdiction/authority when it comes to that, not the city.

But yeah, as far as everything else you talk about...wow. I can't believe they've been able to stay open and operating for so long. I personally have had no clue things there were that bad....was just a place I passed and barely noticed.

[zande]

In other news, the city is looking into selling off property it owns in the Martin/Haywood area since community development has been slow to move on the property. A committee was formed to replace the East Vision taskforce, yet has nothing to show for itself in the last year.

I have no idea what the committee has come up with despite being a resident and attending member on the original East Vision taskforce. Instead, chairs of two adjoining CACs now have more input than resdients or property owners in the area.

Webguy, this is what I have been railing about for months. CD can not do anything until this painfully extended political process has run it's course. CD has purposefully held back until the East Raleigh Vision process was complete. Some citizens then ambushed the plan at its last citizens involvement meeting. I was there and listened carefully but could not tell you exactly what the objections were. This is particularly frustrating in light of the fact that the City has literally millions of dollars already earmarked for this area, particularly the 700 block of Martin Street, grounds zero for drug crime. Yet.... the Southeast CAC has held this up for reasons I really do not fully understand.

I have been in contact with James West and other counsel members but no one seems to want to take on the CAC's. I hope the mayor steps in and prods this process significantly soon.

[ncwebguy]

Yet.... the Southeast CAC has held this up for reasons I really do not fully understand.

There is no "Southeast CAC". The land covered by the East Vision process is mostly in the South Central CAC, with a small slice near the East and MLK intersection falling in the Central CAC. It was supposed to determine the good and bad aspects of the area, and to make a plan to improve the area going forward. I was a member of the task force and went to the public meetings as well.

However, I wasn't at the last public meeting, since it was during business hours on a weekday. From what I've heard, members of the Central and North Central CACs went to the meeting and said the process was invalid because it didn't get *their* input. The process was set up to get input from and address concerns of residents, property owners, and stake holders, and not outsiders. Yet the outsiders said their opinions were more important, and Councilman West agreed.

So another group was formed with the outsiders to determine what to do with the East Vision area. Original task force members, including myself, were not informed of the process, let alone invited to any of their meetings. It has been a year now and they have nothing to show for themselves other than even more decay. As they city's property sits idle, drug dealers use the emtpy protperties to hide their product and themselves. The committee has made a bad situation worse due to their posturing and negelct. CD has said they will wait for the process to finish, yet the committe has done everything it can to not finish.

Over the last year, the South Central CAC has never been presented with this committee's discussions, or consulted for the citizens' input. It sounds like the committee is being given the chance to present something to the economic development committee's meeting on July 10th. But as far as I know, they have nothing. I think the mayor wants to sell the CD acquired land to private development to get something happening, and might give the "committee" the chance to save face and make that recommendation themselves.

RE: The CAC system, there is a movement to re-evaluate the system that hasn't changed since the 70s despite the growth of the city -- physically and the number of residents. City counselors want to hire a consultant, but the mayor wants to be sure the money won't be wasted -- N&O story

[zande]

There is no "Southeast CAC".

Right. Sorry, I meant to say SC CAC. At the City Council meeting in April, wasn't Les Robinson Speaking on behalf of the SC CAC? I listened to that presentation twice and I emailed some SC CAC members and I still do not know what their objections were.

The last East Visioning meeting I attended was during evening hours. One person pretty much monopolised the entire meeting and was complaining that the City's plan was not adequate. I heard him say in the parking lot that it was "B** S***." He was local and owns property in the area.

I also went to the last CD meeting and they were clear that they were ready to spend several million dollars in the area. They specifically stated that they had over $700K earmarked for the 700 block of Martin Street. They also said that they were waiting for the go ahead from the City Council. I, for one, am sick of seeing those boarded up drug dens.

What will it take to get everyone on board and let CD spend its money??

[ncwebguy]

The only Les Robinson I know was a former NC State mens basketball coach, and later athletics director. I doubt he was speaking for anyplace in Raleigh, since he hasn't been in the area for years.

Brad Thompson, the area's represntative to the NC General Assembly and head of the ad-hoc committee. He does not speak for the South Central CAC, hasn't been to a CAC meeting in months, and did not mention the East Vision when he did attend. There are only two people on the ad-hoc East Vision committee to represent the South Central CAC, and only one of those lives in the area the East Vision covers.

The last meeting of record of the old task force was at 5 pm at the Urban Design Center. I was late, so I wasn't allowed to contribute comments. I don't think the input of six forms is enough to determine the direction of a neighborhood of thousands of people.

It was supposed to be done in November 2006. But the new committee has nothing to show for the last year of work and has had no contact with the South Central CAC other than the co-chairs.

Just because Community Development has money to spend, that doesn't mean they should do whatever they want, community be damned. For the last decade in the area, CD has only built single family detached homes. If they are allowed to do what they want, the area would end up with maybe four or five more single family detached houses next to the existing shopping center.

With the amount of land the city owns in the Martin-Haywood area -- combined with the existing retail district -- there is an opportunity to have denser development that could benefit the neighborhood. Apartments above shops like in Carlton place, townhouses and/or row houses could front Martin Street to establish a sense of place in the 700 block. Community Development already has a few houses in the 600 block of East Martin that they have a hard time renting at below-market rates due to the crime in the area. Following the same course of action won't improve the area. The recent pattern of doing nothing makes the area worse. The boarded up houses are in such a state of disrepair that they should be torn down, but some people have decided that it is more important to spend almost a million dollars on a few structures than on a plan that gets a lot more for the money.

CD has an important role to play in the city and the area, but does not need to be the master developer of the Martin-Haywood area. I applaud them for wanting to see what comes of the east vision process, but hate that the process has been hijacked and run into the ground by outsiders who think their uneducationed vision for the area -- only single family houses anywhere east of Blount or Person Street -- is better than the one created by consultants (Camiros) and residents. If it was up to them, Carlton Place would have been 10-12 houses facing Bloodworth, Davie, and East Street. Martin Street deserves better than more of the same.

[zande]

The only Les Robinson I know was a former NC State mens basketball coach, and later athletics director. I doubt he was speaking for anyplace in Raleigh, since he hasn't been in the area for years.

First of all.... I am so sorry to have totally gotten confused. My oldtimers dementia is really getting out of hand. Of course it was Brad Thompson that presented the information at the Tuesday, April 17, 2007 council meeting. He was however, speaking on behalf SERA and the CAC chairs. The minutes of this meeting are at http://www.raleighnc.gov/publications/Boar...es-20070417.doc

I really am still not sure what the issues are. There was nothing in his presentation I saw about the density issue at the 700 block of Martin street.

The meeting I am referring to was the last community meeting on October 24, 2006. The plan got the name Olde East Raleigh at this meeting.

I am not aware of any plans the CD has to build single family house on Martin Street. I understand they are on board with having that area be mixed use development. This was discussed at the Community meeting in October.

Again, sorry for the total brain slippage.

[ncwebguy]

After reading the minutes of the April 17th meeting, I don't know what to say.

Over 45 days, the ad-hoc committe seems to throw out the existing work done by the east vision process and replaced it with their tired "save the history of the community and existing residents" mantra. Even though they report that "Mr. Thompson talked about the redevelopment efforts which took place in the 70

[ChiefJoJo]

FYI, The East Vision Process is up for discussion today by the council:

6. East Vision Implementation Strategy

During the March 6, 2007, Council meeting, the Budget and Economic Development Committee recommended implementation strategies and other directions for the East Vision Plan with the understanding action would be deferred 45 days to give an opportunity for discussion between Southeast Raleigh Assembly and the CAC

[zande]

FYI, The East Vision Process is up for discussion today by the council:

6. East Vision Implementation Strategy

During the March 6, 2007, Council meeting, the Budget and Economic Development Committee recommended implementation strategies and other directions for the East Vision Plan with the understanding action would be deferred 45 days to give an opportunity for discussion between Southeast Raleigh Assembly and the CAC

[zande]

I just got this. It is Brad Thompson

[ncwebguy]

Today's N&O has an article that covers a lot of what was discussed here with East Martin street and the east vision plan:

Plans to clean up drug-infested block inch along

There is also a familiar name in the article...

I still think it is sad that the Southeast Raleigh assembly took the decision making process out of the neighborhood's hands and *now* wants to offer the olive branch of a "neighborhood committee".

Why bother with that if the Assembly can swoop in do what they want if the neighborhood is not in lock step with them?

What can the Southeast Raleigh Assembly say they've actually done for the area?

[Jones_]

Today's N&O has an article that covers a lot of what was discussed here with East Martin street and the east vision plan:

Plans to clean up drug-infested block inch along

There is also a familiar name in the article...

I still think it is sad that the Southeast Raleigh assembly took the decision making process out of the neighborhood's hands and *now* wants to offer the olive branch of a "neighborhood committee".

Why bother with that if the Assembly can swoop in do what they want if the neighborhood is not in lock step with them?

What can the Southeast Raleigh Assembly say they've actually done for the area?

Maybe I misunderstand alot of things or the complexity of what I am about to say, but could the turning point for East Downtown be as simple as negotiating with the owner of this shopping center and have the city buy it and tear it down somehow using nuissance laws? It does not seem to provide any 'esssential' services to the area. Tearing up Fayetteville St Mall seemed to do for the CBD what I think removing this shopping center would do for the East. Pump some other money into physical area improvements including community service oriented items to ease and reassure that there is no intention for changes to be racially targeted or to start a landslide of gentrification. Its quite a challenge to be sensitive to these things but address a clear problem....maybe having the city put a drug treatment center in the place is a better answer...I don't know, just throwing crap out there...

[OldeEast]

Maybe I misunderstand alot of things or the complexity of what I am about to say, but could the turning point for East Downtown be as simple as negotiating with the owner of this shopping center and have the city buy it and tear it down somehow using nuissance laws? It does not seem to provide any 'esssential' services to the area. Tearing up Fayetteville St Mall seemed to do for the CBD what I think removing this shopping center would do for the East. Pump some other money into physical area improvements including community service oriented items to ease and reassure that there is no intention for changes to be racially targeted or to start a landslide of gentrification. Its quite a challenge to be sensitive to these things but address a clear problem....maybe having the city put a drug treatment center in the place is a better answer...I don't know, just throwing crap out there...

I think that's a good idea. There seems to be a little more attention paid to this area right now, so maybe this is the time to get that idea out there. I live in the area, and my neighbors are in favor of something happening over on Martin St to clean up the problems. I think they see it more as a "get rid of the crime" issue rather than a racial or gentrification issue.

Another thing they would like to see - a grocery store at Stone's warehouse.

[zande]

I think that's a good idea. There seems to be a little more attention paid to this area right now, so maybe this is the time to get that idea out there. I live in the area, and my neighbors are in favor of something happening over on Martin St to clean up the problems. I think they see it more as a "get rid of the crime" issue rather than a racial or gentrification issue.

Another thing they would like to see - a grocery store at Stone's warehouse.

I absolutely agree that the crime is currently a much larger issue than gentrification with those who currently live in the area. The police call list to that part of Martin Street is much longer than what the article in the paper even stated. It was pointed out to me that one house alone on Freeman Street had 43 calls in just the last 6 months. If this is not what the nuisance laws were for then I do not know why they exist at all.

I also like the idea of the City offering to buy out the current owner of the shopping center. Not sure they would sell though. In the meantime, if the city could just take care of the property they already own, we would be doing much better.

[ncwebguy]

The N&O has an article on the affect of the city's purchase of dilapidated homes in Southeast Raleigh. It says the city has purchased 175 houses in the area, with 80 tabbed "for future development", including the houses on Martin Street. I don't think the remaining 95 homes are now lived in, but I could be wrong.

I do like they city's plan to buy and shut down drug houses, but part of the problem is *new* drug houses easily replace them. As the article notes, tearing down a structure in and of itself doesn't stop crime from happening in the area. Even the "gentrified" Cooke Street is two or three blocks away from the 900 block of East Jones the article mentions as having prositutes knock on car windows.

I don't know why some of the houses on the 700 block of Martin Street are still standing. The back door on one is ususally wide open and the others have trash strewn around them. I think doing nothing on the 700 block of Martin has been a victory for "community leaders" but a bad loss for the *neighborhood*. The city's inaction on its own property contributes to the broken window theory, where ignored small problems make an area more likely to accept bigger problems. As noted above, new devleopment isn't a magic bullet either, but boarding up and/or knocking down houses in itself has only isolated people like the Martins interviewed in the story.

When there are nothing but empty lots and boarded up houses, a house like the one on Freeman with 43 police calls thrives, becaues there is no pressure to shut it down.

"Leaders" like the quoted Octavia Rainey are ok with lots sitting empty for seven years because they don't live next to them. She doesn't care about the nasty matresses and couches the homeless use there and the effect that has on the surrounding neighborhood. Or the empty beer containers, urine and feces in the backyards of other boarded up houses nearby. Or the drug dealers, gangs, and other activity all hours of the day and night. Someone so self-serving to imposing her will to make sure "Raleigh develops it correctly" is not a leader.

[bigtenor2]

I've been through Southeast here and there, but I'm looking at a property on the 900 block of Hargett not as investment but as a residence. I know the neighborhood isn't pretty, but is there any real "danger" to the area? Worth putting some money into an historic home?