Southeast Raleigh

[ERG]

the article says the fence was part of the rules of getting the HUD funding, which makes me wonder why in the world it would be mandated at a federal level that these places be fenced in? it seems chavis heights is doing some good, so maybe its just a lesson to be learned for the next project?

[ChiefJoJo]

^ If you read the article, it only says "[HUD] guidelines also demanded security." Clearly--unless the guidelines have changed in the last few years-- a fence is not required because the Capitol Park project, built under the same grant program, does not have one.

[ERG]

^ If you read the article, it only says "[HUD] guidelines also demanded security." Clearly--unless the guidelines have changed in the last few years-- a fence is not required because the Capitol Park project, built under the same grant program, does not have one.

my b. i wonder what other security measures would the HUD have accepted?is that like, a security guard, motion detectors/systems in/on the homes, etc? i guess a fence is the easiest, cheapest, and most visual.

[ncwebguy]

It is good to see quoted "experts" having the same critiques, a month or so later...

Security could have been acheived by the CPTED guidelines that Barrie mentioned -- not having that buildings point inward, away from the street, providing people inside opportunities to interact with people outside, etc. Not six foot fences. People inside the fences can't help people outside, and vice versa. There *should* have been a pedestrian connection from Ligon to Chavis Park and the greenway. The placement and arrangemnt of the buildings is just as cheap, if not cheaper, than a fence, and provides for a more cohesive neighborhood fabric. As opposed to the hard line drawn between Chavis and everyone else.

It is telling that residents of the old Chavis Park were not committing crime, but the fence, especially along Lenoir, is going to be a hinderance more than a help.

There are two alcohol markets on the north side of Lenoir near Chavis; the problems that come with them will remain as long as they do. As someone posted elsewhere in the forum, closing the store on the Cabarrus/Bloodworth corner near Carlton Place improved that area immediately.

Some of the houses to the north are being fixed up. I know of a couple along Cabarrus near Chavis, and a couple on/near Haywood.

[deleted]

[Jones_]

I did some quick research as an fyi. 604 east martin almost certainly was moved from the corner of Swain and Martin to make way for whatever modern building is sitting there now. A 1914 Sanborn map shows 15 houses on the block with several unbuilt lots. The block also is bisected by a garbage alley which now is access to the house for rent. Attached is the .pdf. Raleigh_1914__Sheet_28.pdf When you put these maps side by side with a google map you can sleuth a bit.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Jones133

[ncwebguy]

Thanks! I'll forward that to other interested parties. Someone thought Martin was shifted north from a dirt road/that would have been about 20 feet south, but I didn't think that was the case. I thought the house was flush with Martin and then pushed back to make room for the Church's eastern extension/expansion toward the alley, but that is not the case either.

Looking at that map, the house/porch at the Swain/Martin corner was moved/turned behind the third house/fourth lot south of Martin on the west side of Swain. The fourth house on the fifth lot is still there as well I think and after years of neglect has been fixed up for someone planning to move in this month. Woodpile moved one of their houses to the sixth lot down from the SE Swain/Martin corner. One of the three shotguns on Haywood between Davie and Martin caught on fire last December and has yet to be touched since, but the other two are occupied. East of there, things are a *lot* different due to public housing along Camden.

The Swain, Haywood, and Camden intersections at Davie suggest two neighborhoods coming together. South of Davie, they are a narrow one way pair with small houses that look like they're barely standing up. That being said, they have a kind of charm not found anywhere else in the city, reminicent of housing in/east of the French Quarter in New Orleans. Some units have been cared for, others, not so much. The difficulties of getting in and out by vehicle attracted crime that gave Chavis Heights its bad reputation.

[ncwebguy]

The 300 block of North Tarboro Road, recentlly the subject of several N&O articles, was discussed at the North Central CAC meeting last night. It is encouraging that people are talking, but this feels like it is slipping into the same pattern -- police step up patrols, meetings are held, and then everything goes back to the way it was before until it the cycle repeats itself. North Central CAC meets every month a few blocks away, yet the problems continue. I am not comfortable with the notion that the community should have been babysitting the victim and his friends. Or that someone's car was shot and they didn't report it to the police, either out of fear or avoiding self-incrimination. Or selling alcohol to minors.

Why does it happen? The people with the most invested in the area are the drug dealers, prostitutes, etc. Over the summer I rode my bike on Tarboro from Martin north when someone tried to tell me I couldn't wear the shirt I was wearing (NC State) through there, so I turned at Jones or Lane to keep moving instead of having an enlightened conversation. I *really* don't look lilke a member of any gang, but I didn't know they had such a strict dress code for non-members.

[Jones_]

"Those types" are on the street naturally because they choose to. To get them off, they can either be removed, or encouraged to find another street to hang out on. What brings them to North Tarboro? Friendly digs for one. Most of them live nearby. Second, their activities don't bring about enough response from "the system" to keep them off the streets (or keeping them in school vs. on the streets....whole other topic I guess). Neighborhood convenience stores always seem to be a great place to hang out all day plying a street trade since a pack of smokes, and a soda, are nearby. Convenience. So why does say, Bell Tower Mart not have the same problem? Drug dealers come and go all the time from there. But they go home to Maiden Lane or elsewhere. Also, police response on Hillsborough Street is vigorous, and residents of Cameron Park are vigilant. Poverty breeds crime not just outright but harbors it because poor people are easy to intimidate because City Hall rarely listens as well to them. I imagine as Oakwood creeps down Jones Street, the police will listen more to the better-heeled residents, and things will turn in time. Its a shame it takes that though.

[Gard]

It looks like there is a great chance now that St. Agnes will be restored. St. Augistine's has raised a quarter of the money needed so far to restore the building and Brad Miller secured some additional money from the federal govt. I hope that the city and state also consider contributing to the project in some fashion as well. The plan calls for a number of clinics to be housed in the building that do things from Dialysis to Prostate screenings and could be staffed by a revived St. Agnes nursing program. This could be a huge for Southeast Raleigh, which has little in the way of healthcare options. It also brings back to life a place rich in history of African Americans and the segregation era, as well as the city of Raleigh and state of North Carolina.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1459962.html

[Jones_]

Man, I had no idea Jack Johnson died there.

[ChiefJoJo]

There was an interesting article on SE Raleigh, particularly the Thompson-Hunter (I thought it was Martin-Haywood?) neighborhood, which is just east of downtown along Hargett and Martin St. Lots of talk about the most dangerous block in the city along Haywood St, gangs, how to revitalize the neighborhood while preserving it's past and, of course, gentrification.

[ncwebguy]

I got more and more angry when I read the "news article" yesterday in the print edition. I commented on it there, but wanted to copy it here in case I get "moderated away" there. Outsiders continue to use the neighborhood as a pawn in their political chess match.

Martin-Haywood was/is a subset of Thompson/Hunter. M-H was/is eight blocks on either side of Haywood from Hargett to Lenoir. Thompson/Hunter is a larger area defined and expanded in the 70s and 80s.

(start long rant/response to the article)

1. Why are the owners of the abandoned church not held responsible for keeping it clean? If a church won't clean up, why should anyone else?

2. It has not "become the epicenter of the city's guns, gangs and drugs." over the last year or the last five years. In fact, crime was *worse* before 2004. The official numbers might not reflect that because there have to be arrests made to count the crimes, which would require police in the area. The Fetzer/Coble era *destroyed* the neighborhood, redirecting police to patrol North Raleigh instead of the problem areas. "Community leaders" demanded more District 2-4 Police in College Park, Bragg Street, and anywhere BUT Martin Street even though residents said year after year that was the worst area.

And why exactly are the police telling citizens where to walk? Are the police ceding control of the area to the criminals?

3. "Residents of the area... worry about the consequences... fear that the drive to push out the gangs... may fuel gentrification and force them out of the neighborhood."

CITATION NEEDED! Not a single resident was quoted in the story to support this "fact". In fact, the opposite is true -- Ms. Smith wouldn't have her porch screen broken into and Ms. Jordan could walk her daughter to a public park.

4. The city *was* spending money in the neighborhood to stabilize the neighborhood to increase home *ownership*. The city's Community Development department has been working tirelessly for years to acquire/fix up/and sell properties only to low/moderate income families, at a price point of less than half the $300,000 house on Hargett. How did that *not* make the story? That construction CREATED JOBS AND TRAINING Mr. Wadkins seeks, even though there wasn't a specific line in the budget. His fight against the city's proceeding with its plans will *not* create jobs.

In addition, there are more than the two mentioned housing projects in the area. The city owns several houses in the neighborhood it rents to low income families, including one to the family of two of the five youths in Ms. Smith's robbery and the homicide on Camden Street. And Section 8 vouchers for many of the 70% of the community that rents. And Eastwood Court on Swain Street. And Carlton Place a few blocks to the west. And Chavis Heights a few blocks to the south. *That* is the affordable housing already present in the area Mayor Meeker mentioned.

5. David Meeker did not just "flip" houses in the neighborhood. He *lived* there for years. He worked hard to restore houses left for dead by "the community" Linda Simmons-Henry looks at with rose-colored glasses. The Meekers have more of "that pride of place" for Thomson-Hunter than the slumlords they bought properties from. History was lost by concentrating low income housing in the area.

And who brought people in who don't have a pride of place in the 60s-90s? The city didn't buy the properties, so it was the sons and daughters of the "community" who didn't keep up their properties and and rented it to people who didn't care about the history of the area.

My neighbors and I have lived there eight years. The 600 block of Martin was built five years ago, and others nearby have lived in the area for 10 years or longer. Is that "new"? The N&O has done several articles on the area over the years already.

6. How are new residents wanting a diverse neighborhood going to result in shameless editorializing like "residents who endured its dangers may not be around to enjoy its renewal." Most, if not all, of the law-abiding residents of the neighborhood want a safe place where everyone feels welcome. Unfortunately it seems the N&O and "community leaders" want to maintain the status quo to concentrate crime in an area they left for dead years ago.

[miamiblue]

It has been over a year since anyone has posted in this thread. I've noticed quite a few renovated houses popping up on the MLS (and selling) in the east downtown neighborhoods. In fact, several of them will be featured on the Downtown Raleigh Home Tour this Saturday, which I plan to attend.

Has any progress been made with community leaders for supporting any new progress to improve the area? Any other news or updates about the area?

ncwebguy, are you out there?

[newelpost]

It has been over a year since anyone has posted in this thread. I've noticed quite a few renovated houses popping up on the MLS (and selling) in the east downtown neighborhoods. In fact, several of them will be featured on the Downtown Raleigh Home Tour this Saturday, which I plan to attend.

Has any progress been made with community leaders for supporting any new progress to improve the area? Any other news or updates about the area?

ncwebguy, are you out there?

I also enjoyed comments and insights provided by ncwebguy. His posts showed strong knowledge of locations, events and local personalities. Not much of a "talker" myself but would be happy to see a revival in this thread.

[fern]

I've heard some rumblings recently that the Dept. of Community Development may try and sell the Stone Warehouse property on the corner of East and Davie within the next year. The last RFP for this property was sent out in 2007. The City received two bids on the property, neither of which were accepted.

According to Michelle Grant at the Dept. of Community Development, there will be some planning meetings regarding the property at the Urban Design Center beginning around August. If anyone knows more about it, I'd like to hear. I definitely would like to attend those meetings.

Not sure what the city is planning with this property ... apts? condos? single-family homes? retail? Would they still want to retain the southern border of the property for the Raleigh Greenway?

Edited July 1, 2010 by fern

[Jones_]

I've heard some rumblings recently that the Dept. of Community Development may try and sell the Stone Warehouse property on the corner of East and Davie within the next year. The last RFP for this property was sent out in 2007. The City received two bids on the property, neither of which were accepted.

According to Michelle Grant at the Dept. of Community Development, there will be some planning meetings regarding the property at the Urban Design Center beginning around August. If anyone knows more about it, I'd like to hear. I definitely would like to attend those meetings.

Not sure what the city is planning with this property ... apts? condos? single-family homes? retail? Would they still want to retain the southern border of the property for the Raleigh Greenway?

Wake County Property Link

This pic does not do justice to the potential this property has.....but here it is anyway...

[miamiblue]

I've heard some rumblings recently that the Dept. of Community Development may try and sell the Stone Warehouse property on the corner of East and Davie within the next year. The last RFP for this property was sent out in 2007. The City received two bids on the property, neither of which were accepted.

According to Michelle Grant at the Dept. of Community Development, there will be some planning meetings regarding the property at the Urban Design Center beginning around August. If anyone knows more about it, I'd like to hear. I definitely would like to attend those meetings.

Not sure what the city is planning with this property ... apts? condos? single-family homes? retail? Would they still want to retain the southern border of the property for the Raleigh Greenway?

I haven't heard anything about it, but I'm definitely interested to see what happens here. I think timing of the RFP is going to be important. At the moment, it seems that the area needs a shot of adrenaline to get things going again. Gordon Smith's project has apparently gone bust since the block he worked to buy up and move houses from is now up for sale according to a large sign on the property. I also found an article in the TBJ from last year saying that his company, Woodpile LLC filed for Chapter 11 (http://triangle.bizj...09/daily80.html). I haven't heard of much other commercial development interest, though.

When I went on the Downtown Home Tour this year, I visited all of the houses on the tour in this area. I spoke with a few of the owners and it seems that the market for renovated houses was pretty hot while the first-time homebuyer tax credit was available. One owner said she had to drive around and talk to people she saw doing renovations in order to be the first one in line to make an offer. It is good to hear that people are interested in living in the east downtown neighborhoods. I've been watching the MLS for this area since we are now in the market, and things seem to have slowed down a little bit, although it is coinciding with the end of the tax credit and a rise in asking prices. There are still some renovations going on, though.

If the right developer purchases the Stone Warehouse property, I think the community will really benefit from it.

[afripino]

Does anybody happen to know what is being developed on the corner of Rock Quarry Road and Sunnybrook Road? My searches lead to http://granitecommercialsouth.com/PDF/Shoppes%20at%20Sunnybrook.pdf

but I thought the WalMart project was scrapped and a lawsuit was filed by the development company. I live right next to this area (Riverbrook subdivision) and am VERY curious as to what's going to be in walking distance of me. Hopefully, not more homes, because I'd love to have something more beneficial at such a short distance. Thanks!

[Sluv]

Does anybody happen to know what is being developed on the corner of Rock Quarry Road and Sunnybrook Road? My searches lead to http://granitecommer...0Sunnybrook.pdf

but I thought the WalMart project was scrapped and a lawsuit was filed by the development company. I live right next to this area (Riverbrook subdivision) and am VERY curious as to what's going to be in walking distance of me. Hopefully, not more homes, because I'd love to have something more beneficial at such a short distance. Thanks!

A new elementary school - Walnut Elementary - is currently in the process of being built on the SW corner of Rock Quarry and Sunnybrook. Is that what you're referring to?

[RaleighRob]

Wake County is buying the old Coca-Cola plant on South Wilmington Street and turning it into a vocational/technical high school. http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/29/1968000/vocational-high-school-proposed.html

[RaleighRob]

Good news: Rex is gonna open a Urgent/Primary Care center in the old St. Agnes hospital: http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/06/19/2150017/southeast-raleigh-to-get-new-community.html

[afripino]

New tennis facility being built off Barwell! Woot!!!! I finally can play at a decent facility without having to drive all the way to Millbrook!

 

Also, the MLK statue area is getting a makeover. GG SERA!

[ncwebguy]

I met the person behind the project that was going to create "artist lofts" at the Stone Warehouse if he qualified for tax credits.  That fell apart, and the city does not seem to be doing anything.

 

There was going to be an RFP for the northeast corner of Martin and Haywood, but I have see no signs of life there, either.

 

The East/Hargett/Bloodworth/Martin lot will be "The Lincoln" - higher end apartments two blocks due east of Moore Square.  They took core samples in December but have not done anything there since.

 

The city bought the Salvation Army's land on the east side of Moore Square, and moved food handouts to a building behind the Salvation Army.  I have not seen how the new location is being used, since the givers and receivers seem to be fewer during the colder months.

 

 

There have been a few renovations on the 700 and 800 blocks of Martin, but that area has seemed to quiet down.

 

Yet another meeting for the New Bern corridor produced nothing of value.

 

The refurbished Chavis Park Carousel and its new housing is nice, but nothing else is going on around there.

 

The MLK Kroger has now been closed for over a  year and nothing is stepping up to fill the space.  There may be unofficial farmer markets in its parking lot, but that is it.  A grocer is more likely to want to be in/closer to downtown with Skyhouse under construction.  It could easily convert to a Wal-Mart grocery, but they probably would have moved in by now if they had plans on doing so.

 

The Next Big Thing just east of downtown might be the southeast New Bern / Swain block.   Vintage Church swapped it for the Longview Center on Moore Square, which makes sense for all parties involved.  What happens to that land now that it is in Gordon Smith's hands is anyone's guess, but it will likely not be the homeless shelter proposed years and years ago that Oakwood fought, or a new church, since they will be going into the existing building.  Though I am not holding my breath there, either.

 

With everything else going on downtown, the east has not changed much at all.

[Nraleighman]

I wish Raleigh will just fill the whole east side of downtown full of row-houses, shops, and apartments. The bones(grid pattern) is already there and it seems like no developer wants to do anything of that nature.

[NCMike1981]

I could picture a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market grocery store taking over the old Kroger space on MLK Blvd. I can't really think of any other stores that would want to step in, unless they end up dividing the space up. It's a rather nice looking building, especially for the area, so I can't imagine it being demolished, that is unless vandals start going at it.