Ruskin Heights

[itk]

Disappointing Update.

We were forwarded with a recommendation to deny by the Subdivision Committee of the Planning Commission (2 for denial, 1 for passage). Their whole problem revolves around density. We are proposing 10 units per acre which follows a transect from condos on Mission to single family lots up the hill and on the edges. This density is, as many of you know, relatively sparse relative to most TND's. The two that voted for denial claim to be very supportive of New Urbanist concepts and City Plan 2025, but admitted that they are swayed by "not-in-my-back-yard" in this case.

We feel very strongly about a mix of uses (and, therefore, density) are critical to a healthy community and have decided to move forward with the current plan, but will need public support. The Planning Commission meeting is at 5:30 on Monday, December 11th.

This sort of apparent and seeming lip service to new urbanism and the principles outlined by Dover & Kohl dissapoint me thoroughly. Yet I am not surprised. This sort of thing happens all the time. A City administration can give one impression, yet without spine or resolve can decide on issues to the contrary. When push comes to shove, they cave. Not always, but this seems like a definite example.

One may even go so far as to claim hypocrisy. Very dissapointing.

From a transportation professional, this irks me even more for other reasons. Like I have constantly said before, when it comes to transportation problems, it's not entirely the fault of those who plan or build them. The onus is also on those who don't follow smart growth principles, planning, etc., and cave without leadership to those in the public with the loudest voices. The result? In many cases, low density sprawl, seperation of neighborhoods (i.e. lack of connectivity), etc.

[mzweig]

This sort of apparent and seeming lip service to new urbanism and the principles outlined by Dover & Kohl dissapoint me thoroughly. Yet I am not surprised. This sort of thing happens all the time. A City administration can give one impression, yet without spine or resolve can decide on issues to the contrary. When push comes to shove, they cave. Not always, but this seems like a definite example.

One may even go so far as to claim hypocrisy. Very dissapointing.

From a transportation professional, this irks me even more for other reasons. Like I have constantly said before, when it comes to transportation problems, it's not entirely the fault of those who plan or build them. The onus is also on those who don't follow smart growth principles, planning, etc., and cave without leadership to those in the public with the loudest voices. The result? In many cases, low density sprawl, seperation of neighborhoods (i.e. lack of connectivity), etc.

I completely agree, ITK. Dover-Kohl plan is being ignored all over this town. It's a shame!

[cocothief]

I completely agree, ITK. Dover-Kohl plan is being ignored all over this town. It's a shame!

Why spend the money on a study if you aren't going to implement its recommendations?

[Ruskin]

SS - We are working on the web site, but we love to walk people through the plan. Stop by or call at any time (Ward at 422-2955, 2013 Mission Blvd).

ITK - You hit the nail on the head. We are proposing the type of neighborhood that improves traffic problems (mixed use - reduces trips between 25 and 40%, infill - reduces miles per trip, and density to support public transportation), and yet we get blamed for adding traffic. How about all the sprawl toward Goshen?

We will be in front of the whole Planning Commission on the 11th at 5:30 and could really use support. I know I have a vested interest, but it would be a shame to have DPZ design a project for Fayetteville and not be allowed to develop it.

[cowbreath]

I hope they aren't too swayed by the "not-in-my-backyard" argument. I remember years ago when my parents were fighting against a development in their backyard here in Fayetteville. It was proposed to be much more dense than the surrounding neighborhoods. We couldn't imagine fitting so many houses in one small tract of land. It turns out it is one of our favorite places/neighborhoods in Fayetteville now. I can't remember the name of it, but it is between Old Wire and Mission and you have to drive through the neighborhoods to get there. My parents call it a PUD, but I don't know if that was an official name. It is by far the coolest neighborhood idea that they could've come up with.

[Thia]

I hope they aren't too swayed by the "not-in-my-backyard" argument. I remember years ago when my parents were fighting against a development in their backyard here in Fayetteville. It was proposed to be much more dense than the surrounding neighborhoods. We couldn't imagine fitting so many houses in one small tract of land. It turns out it is one of our favorite places/neighborhoods in Fayetteville now. I can't remember the name of it, but it is between Old Wire and Mission and you have to drive through the neighborhoods to get there. My parents call it a PUD, but I don't know if that was an official name. It is by far the coolest neighborhood idea that they could've come up with.

Charleston Place, by Greg House on Amber Drive, north of Fairview Memorial Cemetery?

[mzweig]

Charleston Place, by Greg House on Amber Drive, north of Fairview Memorial Cemetery?

That has to be what he's talking about. Very successful, too.

As many of you folks undoubtedly know, a PUD is a planned unit development. It's an approved, non-conforming plan for a specific piece of property. Zoning is not changed but that specific plan, as designed, gets approved to be built.

[cowbreath]

Charleston Place, by Greg House on Amber Drive, north of Fairview Memorial Cemetery?

Yeah, that's the one. I was hoping someone would be able to remember it.

Charleston Place, by Greg House on Amber Drive, north of Fairview Memorial Cemetery?

Thanks for clarifying what a PUD is. I knew what it stood for but didn't know why it was called that.

[strmchsr77]

ITK - You hit the nail on the head. We are proposing the type of neighborhood that improves traffic problems (mixed use - reduces trips between 25 and 40%, infill - reduces miles per trip, and density to support public transportation), and yet we get blamed for adding traffic. How about all the sprawl toward Goshen?

Sprawl seems to be an issue in west Fayetteville as well. Most developments out there are also trying to use the New Urbanism concepts but I would not call them infill. Most seem to be "greenfield" developments.

Hey Ward, do you know anything about the Southpass Development in SW Fayetteville? I know you are just focusing on Ruskin but I thought that I would ask anyway.

[Ruskin]

Sprawl seems to be an issue in west Fayetteville as well. Most developments out there are also trying to use the New Urbanism concepts but I would not call them infill. Most seem to be "greenfield" developments.

Hey Ward, do you know anything about the Southpass Development in SW Fayetteville? I know you are just focusing on Ruskin but I thought that I would ask anyway.

I totally agree that the TND projects in West Fayetteville are greenfield, not infill. We have really stuck our neck out in terms of both cost and a fight with NIMBY's to put New Urbanist principles to work in an infill location.

Yes, I am very familiar with Southpass. Urban Design Associates (UDA) is the land planner and they are great (). I also respect how John Nock and Richard Alexander develop real estate. They aren't, however, as dumb as I am and realize that regardless of the lip service paid to City Plan Goal #1 (infill highest priority), you have a much easier time getting a New Urbanist project approved in a greenfield location.

I hope they aren't too swayed by the "not-in-my-backyard" argument. I remember years ago when my parents were fighting against a development in their backyard here in Fayetteville. It was proposed to be much more dense than the surrounding neighborhoods. We couldn't imagine fitting so many houses in one small tract of land. It turns out it is one of our favorite places/neighborhoods in Fayetteville now. I can't remember the name of it, but it is between Old Wire and Mission and you have to drive through the neighborhoods to get there. My parents call it a PUD, but I don't know if that was an official name. It is by far the coolest neighborhood idea that they could've come up with.

Cowbreath,

What do I have to bribe you with to have you or your parents tell this story to the Planning Commission on the 11th? This is exactly what we try to tell folks, but it just sounds self-serving coming from us.

[cowbreath]

Cowbreath,

What do I have to bribe you with to have you or your parents tell this story to the Planning Commission on the 11th? This is exactly what we try to tell folks, but it just sounds self-serving coming from us.

Well, if we are going for bribes here -- and I have no ethics against that in this situation -- I guess I could have a few options:

1) (most important) Give me a nice stylish 1500sf house in this new development for $125,000.

2) Build this development in style with quality materials for the living abodes and ensure that in the end it won't be ugly or tight with cars parked on the street too much or giving too much accessibility issues. I guess you can get away with this style and make the houses smaller and prices higher, but I hope each house is fully practical and not making two rooms out of one room if you get my drift.

3) Just build this development at all if it is approved and do it fast because we are waiting to see it.

Yeah, it might be a good story to sell to the council, but I"m extremely inexperienced with community involvement and my parents are extremely inexperienced in listening to my ideas and going forth with it. I'll give it some thought and discussion with them though.

[Mith242]

Sorry for the late response here. This is disappointing news and I have to agree with the others, some city officials do seem a bit hypocritical about new urbanism and the Dover Kohl study. This does seem to be one of these situations where everyone thinks this is a good idea until you try to do something close to where someone lives. I might have to work some long hours at work next Monday but if possible I'll try to swing by Planning Commission for the meeting.

[Mith242]

Does anyone have the email addresses for the members of the Planning Commission? I imagine if I look hard enough I could find it one the city's website somewhere. But I was hoping someone might have easy access to them. I'd like to respond to them about this issue.

[Ruskin]

Does anyone have the email addresses for the members of the Planning Commission? I imagine if I look hard enough I could find it one the city's website somewhere. But I was hoping someone might have easy access to them. I'd like to respond to them about this issue.

Planning Commissioners - [email protected] For the Planning Commission send to this address "Care of City Clerk"

Aldermen - http://www.accessfayetteville.org/city_gov...t/city_council/ Use this web site to get each of the Aldermen

Mayor - [email protected]

[NWAnewby]

Wow! I am new to Fayetteville and am truly impressed that DPZ has made it here. I've visited Seaside in FL and used to live in the DC area near Kentlands. They are cool developments!! I think it would be a fresh idea here and would add even more charm to this college town. TND fits perfectly here, as noted by the success of Charleston Place, and the Noch/Alexander developments in town. Too bad they aren't infill, but I guess it's one baby step at a time for the council. I'll keep checking on the updates. Good luck!

[strmchsr77]

Wow! I am new to Fayetteville and am truly impressed that DPZ has made it here. I've visited Seaside in FL and used to live in the DC area near Kentlands. They are cool developments!! I think it would be a fresh idea here and would add even more charm to this college town. TND fits perfectly here, as noted by the success of Charleston Place, and the Noch/Alexander developments in town. Too bad they aren't infill, but I guess it's one baby step at a time for the council. I'll keep checking on the updates. Good luck!

Welcome to Urban Planet NWAnewby. Yeah, this is a fairly new concept to the area. The first large scale New Urbanism was Harbor Meadows in S-dale but since then there has been close 5-10 announced just in Fayetteville. Most are "greenfield" but Ruskin is going to be a great infill project.

[Mith242]

Yeah welcome to the forum NWAnewby. Has anyone heard how things went with the Planning Commission? That and I was wondering does anyone think perhaps one of the reasons the city isn't approving this is because it's not that they don't want density but they don't want density near Mt Sequoyah? I don't mean to stir up anything here, but it does seem that some city officials seem to be in a way 'protecting' that area and the residents there seem to get their way perhaps a bit more than residents in other areas of the city.

[Ruskin]

Yeah welcome to the forum NWAnewby. Has anyone heard how things went with the Planning Commission? That and I was wondering does anyone think perhaps one of the reasons the city isn't approving this is because it's not that they don't want density but they don't want density near Mt Sequoyah? I don't mean to stir up anything here, but it does seem that some city officials seem to be in a way 'protecting' that area and the residents there seem to get their way perhaps a bit more than residents in other areas of the city.

The Planning Commission meeting is this coming Monday, December 11th at 5:30. Please come on by.

I agree with your assessment of Mt. Sequoyah.

[NWAnewby]

The Planning Commission meeting is this coming Monday, December 11th at 5:30. Please come on by.

I agree with your assessment of Mt. Sequoyah.

Sounds like a tough crowd--or simply a bit biased towards Mt. Sequoyah. I'll try to stop by the meeting to show my support as a potential homeowner in Ruskin Heights. I'd love to live there!

[Mith242]

The Planning Commission meeting is this coming Monday, December 11th at 5:30. Please come on by.

I agree with your assessment of Mt. Sequoyah.

Oops sorry, I got the wrong date.

[NWAnewby]

Oops sorry, I got the wrong date.

I watched the city council meeting tonight where our New Urbanist-ignorant council members voted to amend the future land use map to make sure the area where Ruskin Heights is located is not zoned appropriately for the TND. I am fuming now because I have lost faith in their ability to follow through with their own decision to implement 2025. Their reasoning was based on the "50+ phone calls and emails in opposition to the development."--Brenda Thiel & Swity Reynolds. I have already emailed them all voicing my support for the plan and will call Swifty tomorrow because he has no email. I hope next week's meeting isn't as ill-fated as tonight! My love for Fayetteville is slowing diminishing based on my disrespect for our council.

[strmchsr77]

I watched the city council meeting tonight where our New Urbanist-ignorant council members voted to amend the future land use map to make sure the area where Ruskin Heights is located is not zoned appropriately for the TND. I am fuming now because I have lost faith in their ability to follow through with their own decision to implement 2025. Their reasoning was based on the "50+ phone calls and emails in opposition to the development."--Brenda Thiel & Swity Reynolds. I have already emailed them all voicing my support for the plan and will call Swifty tomorrow because he has no email. I hope next week's meeting isn't as ill-fated as tonight! My love for Fayetteville is slowing diminishing based on my disrespect for our council.

Get used to the council disappointing you. It happens almost everytime they get together. Believe me!

[Mith242]

Yeah the residents of that area seem to have a lot of clout, and they in particular seem very resistant to any change. These are the same people are made a big fuss over E Fay Jones Butterfly House being converted into a synagogue.

[jiggyK]

Yeah the residents of that area seem to have a lot of clout, and they in particular seem very resistant to any change. These are the same people are made a big fuss over E Fay Jones Butterfly House being converted into a synagogue.

yeah, they embody what i consider to be the core of fayetteville, and i believe they are responsible for much of what i love about fayetteville. the pro-tree attitude, the desire for limited signage, and the sense of small town community come to mind. they have guided fayetteville well. but fayetteville is changing fast. the 2025 plan is a smart plan for the most part, from what i can tell. and i consider this development to be one that reeks of 2025 plan ideology. but in order to follw this plan they are going to have to do things differently from how they were done in the past. sadly, it appears they haven't learned that yet.

[Mith242]

I know some areas of Fayetteville do need to be protected. You obviously would put some huge development right next door to the Washington-Willow Historical District. But I do get a bit frustrated when people seem all for these changes until you try to do it near where they live.