RDU International Airport

[orulz]

USAir and CLT-CDG I can understand.

Looks like Delta is starting PIT-CDG in addition to RDU-CDG. I guess my point is, I don't really see the reasoning behind either of them, but they are fairly small aircraft, and if they think there's a market, then more power to 'em. Gas prices have come down significantly as well, and airfares haven't quite come down to match yet, so maybe that plays into the equation. Nevertheless, I still have trouble seeing how there is a market for non-stop flights to France from each of these two non-hub airports.

[Cary NC]

Is it possible that Delta is trying to diversify. Meaning, giving the customer other options instead of flying thru ATL or JFK which are plagued with delays. Maybe by routing flights to Pittsburgh and RDU then customers can pick up a connecting flights which means that Delta could be adding some flights to RDU. Just a theory. I know that Delta added Salt Lake to Paris last summer, though SLC is a western hub for them.

[Atlside]

Raleigh-Durham's International flights.

American brought RDU its first international flights

May 28, 1988 -American Airlines started nonstop flights between Paris and the Raleigh-Durham Airport in North Carolina. The flights are the first international service from Raleigh-Durham Airport and the airport is being renamed the Raleigh-Durham International Airport.

From 1988 to 1994 American Airlines offered non-stop flights to Paris as American closed its RDU hub and repolaced it with the Miami hub.

American Airlines also offered non-stop flights from Raleigh-Durham to:

Bermuda

Cancun, Mexico

Paris Orly, France

Nassau, Bahamas

Also, there were flights to San Juan, Puerto Rico USA, and to the US Virgin Islands.

In 1991 USAir (now called US Airways) accounted for 93% of Charlotte Douglas International Airport's then 6.5 million passenger boardings through October 1991, and American Airlines had more than half of Raleigh-Durham International's 3.9 million passenger boardings. But at that time 75% of Charlotte's boardings and 53% of Raleigh-Durham's boardings were from connecting flights.

Today Raleigh-Durham originates most of its passengers as it is no-longer a hub airport. Where Charlotte still is a major hub airport for US Airways.

On May 26, 1994 the first nonstop flight from London, United Kingdom arrived at Raleigh-Durham Intenational Airport.

Raleigh-Durham International Airport's first international carrier was Air Canada, with nonstop service to Toronto, Canada in 1996.

Canadian Regional began service to Toronto, Canada in 1997.

In 2002 Raleigh-Durham International Airport was seeking direct nonstop flights to Germany. As there are over 30 companies in the Raleigh-Durham metropolitan area that based in Germany. Local executives with German companies were prompting a push for nonstop service from Raleigh-Durham International Airport to Frankfurt.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Atlside

[Atlside]

Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte ranked side by side in terms of traffic in 2007. If you take North Carolina's 3 largest airports there are 18,553,030 O&D passengers that would make all of the airports combinded about ranking of Newark or Philadelphia.

Top 120 U.S. Airports Ranked By Domestic Origin-and-Destination (O&D) Traffic, Year Ended March 2007

1. Las Vegas 32,560,340

2. Los Angeles 31,169,270

3. Chicago O'Hare 28,761,370

4. Orlando 28,213,420

5. Atlanta 26,175,350

6. Phoenix 23,949,290

7. Denver 22,692,280

8. New York LaGuardia 21,938,740

9. Dallas-Fort Worth 21,571,040

10. Boston 20,675,030

11. Seattle 19,957,130

12. Newark (New York area) 19,824,960

13. Philadelphia 17,392,770

14. New York Kennedy JFK 7,371,400

15. Ft. Lauderdale (Miami area) 17,195,140

16. San Francisco 16,485,740

17. Tampa 16,140,660

18. Baltimore (Washington area) 15,780,160

19. San Diego 15,562,140

20. Detroit 15,437,130

21. Minneapolis/St. Paul 15,346,730

22. Washington National 13,681,880

23. Houston 13,504,130

24. Oakland 13,153,770

25. Chicago Midway 12,690,610

26. Honolulu 12,356,150

27. Portland 10,908,610 12 47

28. Washington Dulles 10,346,770

29. St. Louis 1 0,228,960

30. Salt Lake City 1 0,102,890

31. Sacramento SMF 9 ,676,680

32. San Jose 9 ,523,080

33. Kansas City 9 ,457,360

34. Orange County 9 ,272,920

35. Miami 9,230,050

36. Charlotte Douglas 8,395,280

37. Raleigh-Durham 8,308,760

38. Nashville 7,831,330

39. Pittsburgh 7,537,030

40. Cleveland 7,364,650

41. Fort Myers 7,229,720

42. Indianapolis 7,127,620

43. Austin 7,074,990

44. San Antonio 6 ,935,830

45. West Palm Beach (Miami area) 6 ,483,690

46. Ontario 6 ,401,650

47. Hartford 6 ,288,780

48. Columbus 6 ,187,620

49. New Orleans 6,177,040

50. San Juan 6,109,650

51. Houston Hobby 6,040,190

52. Burbank 5,623,870

53. Jacksonville 5,594,160

54. Milwaukee 5,448,230

55. Dallas Love Field 5,441,160

56. Albuquerque 5,403,620

57. Kahului 5,108,160

58. Providence 4,890,800

59. Buffalo 4,714,190

60. Reno 4,413,720

61. Cincinnati 4,310,500

62. Memphis 4,157,930

63. Tucson 3,858,940

64. Omaha 3,858,830

65. Manchester 3,713,980

66. Norfolk 3,378,680

67. Louisville 3,303,430

68. Anchorage 3,297,170

69. Oklahoma City 3,169,500

70. Richmond 3,068,760

71. Spokane 3,027,250

72. El Paso 2,991,440

73. Boise 2,931,830

74. Birmingham 2,844,490

75. Tulsa 2,829,630

76. Albany 2,717,950

77. Lihue 2,610,550

78. Rochester 2,599,610

79. Kona 2,582,760

80. Long Beach 2,541,670

81. Dayton 2,462,280

82. Islip 2,274,210

83. Little Rock 2,261,630

84. Syracuse 2,111,980

85. Greensboro Piedmont Triad 1 ,848,990

86. Colorado Springs 1,840,000

87. Grand Rapids 1,762,780

88. Savannah 1,726,880

89. Charleston SC 1,690,890

90. Des Moines 1,679,320

91. Pensacola 1,490,320

92. Knoxville 1,442,620

93. Hilo 1,438,500

94. Portland 1,423,890

95. Madison 1,388,450

96. Sarasota/Bradenton 1,386,110

97. Myrtle Beach 1,348,280

98. Jackson MS 1,342,260

99. Palm Springs 1,340,360

100. Akron/Canton 1,330,060

101. Greenville/Spartanburg 1,304,550

102. Wichita 1,270,010

103. Burlington 1,265,850

104. Columbia SC 1,137,230

105. Westchester County 1,128,900

106. Fresno 1,081,060

107. Lubbock 1,064,970

108. Harrisburg 1,061,030

109. St. Thomas 1,044,820

110. Fayetteville 1,009,460

111. Huntsville 1,002,850

112. Flint 995,200

113. Newport News (Norfolk-Virginia Beach area) 976,900

114. Midland/Odessa 913,780

115. Baton Rouge 906,020

116. Cedar Rapids/Iowa City 894,370

117. Tallahassee 871,820

118. Lexington 864,460

119. Amarillo 846,630

120. Harlingen 839,430

Edited November 9, 2008 by Atlside

[Subway Scoundrel]

This Paris flight is good news, and another feather in the cap of the Triangle, but do we really need it? Flying on a 757 with that one aisle is no fun, but this seems to be a common arrangement now from medium-sized airports to Europe now.

Should be happy, but I wonder why we can't get something to the west coast to work long-term! I live in Tokyo. While it's easy to just connect in IAD, ATL, or JFK, I would like to do it on the west coast and have a stopover. Why isn't there enough traffic to the Silicon Valley area of California to make a flight work? Any answers?

You may get your choice. Set up direct flgihts to San Jose and LA with Delta and maybe half the business on those flights is for RDU and the other half or some percentage is for Paris. Instead of stopping in NY, stop in Raleigh. RDU gets direct flights to the west coast that feeds a new international flight. Works for everyone.

Edited November 10, 2008 by Subway Scoundrel

[Shempster]

Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte ranked side by side in terms of traffic in 2007. If you take North Carolina's 3 largest airports there are 18,553,030 O&D passengers that would make all of the airports combinded about ranking of Newark or Philadelphia.

Top 120 U.S. Airports Ranked By Domestic Origin-and-Destination (O&D) Traffic, Year Ended March 2007

36. Charlotte Douglas 8,395,280

37. Raleigh-Durham 8,308,760

85. Greensboro Piedmont Triad 1 ,848,990

An interesting though misleading statistic given your opening sentence

Edited November 25, 2008 by ChiefJoJo

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte ranked side by side in terms of traffic in 2007. If you take North Carolina's 3 largest airports there are 18,553,030 O&D passengers that would make all of the airports combinded about ranking of Newark or Philadelphia.

Could you please provide the link for us/me to the above info? Please and thank you!

I have been searching for the most up to date top us airports, the most I can find is for the world...again thank you!

[ERJ170]

The O&D figures as I'm sure you know don't factor in the hub aspect of CLT & this is one of the things that clearly set the two airports substantially apart from each other.

While quite true, O&D of an airport is a much stronger indication of an airport's true nature. Hub airports are not guaranteed and CLT needs to know what would happen if that hub was to fall. It's O&D number is the backbone of what it is capable of doing. Any airport can grow itself to handle many more aircraft movements and many more passengers.. but how many local passengers actually use the airport is one of the most important aspects because the majority of the airports get their money from pax that park and fly rather than those that just fly through. So it's important to know that if something should happen, CLT would mirror RDU and likewise. The "hub aspect" is a plus for CLT, but not a given. Ask RDU, PIT, CMH, DAY, GSO, etc.. or as CVG in about a year.. etc..

And yes, the hub does add some benefits, but it also adds some disadvantages. I wouldn't say it substantially sets them apart, I would say the hub provides CLT with more service and destination.. but it also drives some people away from originating in clt to connecting through CLT (we know quite a bit of the traffic travel to other airports to connect in CLT because it's cheaper)..

But that's all I got to say..

[clt29301]

And yes, the hub does add some benefits, but it also adds some disadvantages. I wouldn't say it substantially sets them apart, I would say the hub provides CLT with more service and destination.. but it also drives some people away from originating in clt to connecting through CLT (we know quite a bit of the traffic travel to other airports to connect in CLT because it's cheaper)..

I always hesitate to write much when it comes to comparing Raleigh & Charlotte, for some reason, people get bent out of shape when comparing the cities. But, saying the two airports are similar because the O&D numbers are close is very misleading. While the cities may be close on O&D traffic, which is also driven by cost as much as other factors, ignoring the hub aspect of Charlotte because it may go away at some point is missing a very large part of the equation. When you look at the complete set of statistics that define these airports....total passengers, take offs/landings, & population of areas served, # of runways, etc... these airports have very little in common.

[shirokuma66]

From what I read on Triangle Biz, it seems that the cut in flights and seats has hurt the passenger numbers at RDU (and elsewhere I'm sure). Any experts out there forsee an increase in capacity by using larger aircraft or additional flights? From what Mindy Hamlin says, the demand is there. Seems like good business if they add seats and they sell.

[ERJ170]

Yes, the demand is there.. but the prices are getting to the point where airlines have crossed the line, so people aren't flocking to the airway like they were before.. which means the airlines are going to cut capacity.. which means less people can fly and prices will get even higher.. which means less people can fly.. which means airlines will cut capacity.. its never ending..

so of course the demand is there.. but the ability is no longer there.. until an airlines just bucks the trend and start offering seats, it's just going to go into a spiraling decline.. just like the economy! Ahhh.. and it comes full circle..

[ChiefJoJo]

I read recently that the proposed RDU flight to Paris (CDG) has been postponed, perhaps until 2010, or even longer. A startup international flight is a tough sell in this market in these tough economic times, so no big surprise.

[PAVANC]

FYI, a Royal Air Force Tornado and L1011 are parked on the GA Ramp at RDU.

[Atlside]

RDU's Terminal 1 could close temporarily

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1387804.html

To save money, Raleigh-Durham International Airport might temporarily close the old Terminal 1 in 2011, after it finishes building its $570 million Terminal 2.

.....The airport has been in a similar position before. After Eastern Airlines went out of business in 1989, part of the building now known as Terminal 1 stayed shut for five years.

[shirokuma66]

To save money, Raleigh-Durham International Airport might temporarily close the old Terminal 1 in 2011, after it finishes building its $570 million Terminal 2.

.....The airport has been in a similar position before. After Eastern Airlines went out of business in 1989, part of the building now known as Terminal 1 stayed shut for five years.

[Gard]

By 2011, the economy could be in full swing again. For that matter, economists are expecting things to starting turning around by the 4th quarter of 2009. IMO, if they want to shut it and do their remodeling, etc, NOW is the time, while passenger counts are down. By the time they are done, passenger demand should be back to what it was, if not even higher.

[dmccall]

Ugh. Here we go again.

I'm not sure why this is news. The plan all along has been to move all of Terminal 1 over to Terminal 2 while Terminal 1 is replaced. This is the reason they replaced Terminal C first!

[ERJ170]

Ugh. Here we go again.

I'm not sure why this is news. The plan all along has been to move all of Terminal 1 over to Terminal 2 while Terminal 1 is replaced. This is the reason they replaced Terminal C first!

I thought the plan was to move WN to US and Delta old gates.. close A18 and A19 to put inline baggage there so the machines were moved behind the scenes.. close off A5-9.. renovate the interior with new carpet and walls.. and renovate the exterior to mirror Terminal 1... but all this while Terminal 1 was still in operation.. I don't think they ever contemplated moving all airlines to Terminal 2 or else I'm sure they would have maintained the original 42 gates..

Now, if they moved everyone over, I very seriously doubt there is room for new entrants and/or sufficient growth..

But, that's just my opinion..

[dmccall]

One of the engineers told me this (everyone move to 2 thing) a year ago.

[Justin6882]

Arthur Frommer calls RDU's new terminal "Easily America's Best [airport]".

Frommer's

[orulz]

The original Terminal C was already pretty stress-free and relaxed; the biggest constraint was the ticketing facilities. Having gone on a tour of T2 but not flown through it yet I can only imagine that it's an improvement.

I'm glad T2 is getting rave reviews, but as dmccall said, at half a billion dollars it damn well better!

[Atlside]

It seems like from the beginning there was a plan to close Terminal 1 (former A and B). When you think about the fact that at most US airports any terminal or concourse that was built in 1987, regardless of its use are, all still open. That's considered very young for an airport facility. Yet, at RDU they left the oldest Terminal building, former "B" and what was actually built as a temporary terminal, former Terminal "A".

The first modern passenger terminal opened in 1955. Eastern Airlines started jet airline service on April 25, 1965.

Delta Airlines came on June 15, 1970 and President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act in 1978 and resulted growth in the aviation industry in the 1980s.

Terminal A (the blue portion building) opened January 24, 1982 with 18 gates (later in 2001 expaned to add 5 gates). The original 1955 terminal was renovated in 1983 to provide additional gates and was renamed Terminal B.

On April 11, 1985 American Airlines began service at Raleigh-Durham. American Airlines also requested the opportunity to the airport its North-South hub.

On May 31, 1987 the Federal Aviation Administration opened the 230ft tall control tower, the tallest in the state.

On June 15, 1987 American Airlines opened the red roofed Terminal C. At hub's peak operation American Airlines operated 210 daily departures from Terminal C making RDU a major hub and a major national US airport. American Airlines made RDU an international airport on May 26, 1988 with one daily flight to Paris, France and in 1989 with flights to the United Kingdom, Bermuda and Mexico.

In mid-December 1989, Eastern Air Lines' creditors and AMR Corporation (parent of American Airlines and American Eagle) agreed upon the sale of Eastern's Latin American routes from Miami. Miami subsequently became an American Airline hub in 1989, which undercut the airline's hub at Raleigh-Durham and Nashville, with most of the new Miami flights serving Northeastern cities directly, bypassing Raleigh-Durham.

In 1992 Terminal A was renovated and in 1996 the newly constructed north concourse

opened, providing 9 additional gates.

American Airlines began downsizing its operations at Raleigh-Durham in September 1993

On February 24, 1993 American Airlines said it had agreed to delay for 18 months a final decision on closing its unprofitable Raleigh-Durham hub.

International service to Paris ceased in September 1994.

December 10, 1994 in a surprise announcement that was the death knell for American Airlines' hub at Raleigh-Durham International Airport, American Eagle said that it would cease all operations by early January 1995.

At the beginning of 1994 American Airlines had 109 daily jet flights and by August 1994 American Eagle had 112 daily flights. By December 1994 American Airlines had only 63 jet flights daily and 94 American Eagle flights. With the pullout both American Eagle and American Airlines reduced its presence at RDU to 60 flights, down from 192 flights 11 months before in 1993 and down from 210 daily flights at its peak.

With 45 daily departures remaining, the American Airlines hub at Raleigh-Durham was officially closed on May 1, 1996, one year after the closing of American's Nashville hub and shortly before the airline's termination of its San Jose hub.

In March of 1995 Midway Airlines relocated its hub from Chicago to Raleigh-Durham, leasing at least 7 gates formerly used by American Airlines in Terminal C. The company had contracted with American Airlines for maintenance and had a relationship with American Airlines for frequent flier miles.

By March of 2000 Midway and Corporate Airlines offered a total of 232 departures and arrivals daily at Raleigh-Durham International Airport.

At the height of Midway's operations it offered almost 200 flights daily from Raleigh-Durham.

The high-tech slump of 2000-01 hurt Midway, and the carrier abruptly filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on the evening of August 13, 2001.

Edited April 13, 2009 by Atlside

[orulz]

There was some discussion about GSO "leaving behind" RDU because of its third runway. Since "versus" threads are not allowed that discussion has been removed. There was some useful discussion about whether or not 2 runways at RDU is enough, and the proposed 3rd runway. That follows below.

Edited April 15, 2009 by orulz
edited topic for relevance

[DPK]

RDU has 3 runways. Two parallel runways designated 5L/23R and 5R/23L. There is also a cross-winds runway designated 14/32. A fourth runway was planned but shelved when the industry took a dive after September 11.

Edited April 15, 2009 by orulz
trimmed

[ERJ170]

RDU has room for a 3rd runway.. actually they have room for a 4th runway too.. The third runway will run parallel to the 10K runway with more than enough room for simultaneous take-off and landing. The 4th runway would run beside the current 9.5K runway with more than enough room for simultaneous take-off and landing. There is more than ample room, also to "move" the crosswinds runway to allow non-crossing of the "4th" runway.

Also, there is/was discussion of extending 9.5K runway to 10K.

Edited April 15, 2009 by orulz
trimmed