Plainfield Meijer

[GRDadof3]

Walmart on EBL? That would just ruin the entire beltline as far as quality

But does it really surprise anyone that they want to be there? But not on Knapp's corner...and you darn well know people will be throwing a huge ordeal about that one.

[Nitro]

And I will be right there with them fighting the good fight to keep Wal-Mart out.

[Raildudes dad]

If/when Wal-Mart proposes to build on Robinette's land, it will become probably one of the largest anti-development battles in this area to date. Probably bigger than Meijer's battle in Gaines Township (I wasn't around when Meijer wanted to build at the Meijer Garden's site). It would most likely end up in court, as GR Township would never approve the rezoning, and the rest of the Beltline Overlay members will fight it.

And I will be right there with them fighting the good fight to keep Wal-Mart out.

[tamias6]

I remember going to Cadilac MI before and after Wal-Mart replaced their store with a supercenter next door to the local Maijer store. Before the Supercenter. The area bussinesses immedietly surrounding both Meijer and the future Wal-Mart including a Glen's super market where busy places with parking lots full. Even with Meijer and the normal format Wal-Mart competing for those same customers, the local bussinesses where still doing very well. The next time I visited Cadilac about a year after Wal-Mart built a supercenter next door the Meijer and converted the old Wal-Mart with a Sam's Club. Many of the local bussineses where gone. As for the Glen's supermarket, it was just an abandoned building. I'm predicting much the same effects when Wal-Mart replaces their Alpine location with a Supercenter in '07. The same will be said for local bussineses on the EBL if and when Wal-Mart opens a supercenter there.

Another example of Wal-Mart negative effects is the town my Grand Parents live in. Even though the town never did do well economically there where quite a few bussineses in the down town and within the city limits. However, when Wal-Mart built a supercenter on the south side of town ten years ago, it was the end for the locals. The only bussinesses left in the DT area is a Music store kept alive by students from the nearby college, and a Lumber store. The local JCPenneys and the strip mall it anchored save a Rit Aid and a Radio Shack, shuttered. Out of the 4 local grocery stores one is still open. adding to the problem are all the Big Box stores sprouting up around the Wal-Mart which is making it harder for few local bussineses in town to compete.

I've pretty much seen first hand the Wal-Mart effect in action. Wal-Mart not only out-competes local bussineses, it smashes, crushes, and obliterates, anything standing in there way, leaving the area they build in a one-horse town with Wal-Mart being the horse. I was hoping that the Grand Rapids Area would remain a haven from Wal-Mart's spreading tenticles. But its now evident that this will no longer be the case. So prepare yourselves for in the next ten to fifteen years all of us will be seeing alot of empty buildings where pop and pops once thrived.

[DwntwnGeo]

I remember going to Cadilac MI before and after Wal-Mart replaced their store with a supercenter next door to the local Maijer store. Before the Supercenter. The area bussinesses immedietly surrounding both Meijer and the future Wal-Mart including a Glen's super market where busy places with parking lots full. Even with Meijer and the normal format Wal-Mart competing for those same customers, the local bussinesses where still doing very well. The next time I visited Cadilac about a year after Wal-Mart built a supercenter next door the Meijer and converted the old Wal-Mart with a Sam's Club. Many of the local bussineses where gone. As for the Glen's supermarket, it was just an abandoned building. I'm predicting much the same effects when Wal-Mart replaces their Alpine location with a Supercenter in '07. The same will be said for local bussineses on the EBL if and when Wal-Mart opens a supercenter there.

Another example of Wal-Mart negative effects is the town my Grand Parents live in. Even though the town never did do well economically there where quite a few bussineses in the down town and within the city limits. However, when Wal-Mart built a supercenter on the south side of town ten years ago, it was the end for the locals. The only bussinesses left in the DT area is a Music store kept alive by students from the nearby college, and a Lumber store. The local JCPenneys and the strip mall it anchored save a Rit Aid and a Radio Shack, shuttered. Out of the 4 local grocery stores one is still open. adding to the problem are all the Big Box stores sprouting up around the Wal-Mart which is making it harder for few local bussineses in town to compete.

I've pretty much seen first hand the Wal-Mart effect in action. Wal-Mart not only out-competes local bussineses, it smashes, crushes, and obliterates, anything standing in there way, leaving the area they build in a one-horse town with Wal-Mart being the horse. I was hoping that the Grand Rapids Area would remain a haven from Wal-Mart's spreading tenticles. But its now evident that this will no longer be the case. So prepare yourselves for in the next ten to fifteen years all of us will be seeing alot of empty buildings where pop and pops once thrived.

[Greedo]

I was under the impression that this was urban legend. I always knew that the Meijer's were down to earth folks as the other folks here in town, but do they really deny the shiny things?

[Delvrin]

I remember going to Cadilac MI before and after Wal-Mart replaced their store with a supercenter next door to the local Maijer store. Before the Supercenter. The area bussinesses immedietly surrounding both Meijer and the future Wal-Mart including a Glen's super market where busy places with parking lots full. Even with Meijer and the normal format Wal-Mart competing for those same customers, the local bussinesses where still doing very well. The next time I visited Cadilac about a year after Wal-Mart built a supercenter next door the Meijer and converted the old Wal-Mart with a Sam's Club. Many of the local bussineses where gone. As for the Glen's supermarket, it was just an abandoned building.

[FilmMaker]

If/when Wal-Mart proposes to build on Robinette's land, it will become probably one of the largest anti-development battles in this area to date. Probably bigger than Meijer's battle in Gaines Township (I wasn't around when Meijer wanted to build at the Meijer Garden's site). It would most likely end up in court, as GR Township would never approve the rezoning, and the rest of the Beltline Overlay members will fight it.

And I will be right there with them fighting the good fight to keep Wal-Mart out.

[Nitro]

As a Planning Commissioner in Plainfield Township who is firmly against a Wal-Mart presence where our Master Plan clearly disallows it, I thank you in advance for your commitment to helping prevent this rumored project from becoming reality at 4 Mile and EBL.

Instead, let's find a way to re-direct WalMart to the mostly vacant Northtown Plaza at Plainfield and I96. While I don't relish the idea of a WalMart anywhere, I'm willing to see what might come from a collaborative re-development of the Northtown site. It certainly couldn't be much worse than what we have there now. And maybe GR Township (as a party to both the 4 Mile site AND the Plainfield CIA) will find the courage to step up and help make such a conversation possible...?

[tamias6]

I see and understand where you are coming from. From the sounds of your examples, you would be against "big box" stores that offer multiple selections (food/clothing/electronics) into areas that would kill local businesses etc. I agree with you in many respects that you have given above, but I would ask what is the difference between a Meijers and a WalMart? They are both large superstores in my opinion. The only difference being Meijers is HQ here in GR. In my opinion both stores hinder smaller downtown businesses. I grew up in a small town between GR and Traverse City. The example you gave above is exactly what happend there, except it was the new Meijers store that broke downtown's back and and not the existing WalMart in town.

My point is that everyone seems to dislike WalMart so much around here, but we will praise Meijers for doing the same thing? Remove yourself from GR&Michigan and try and think about how other towns/cities feel about having a Meijers or a WalMart coming into their town.

[destijl]

1 The Cascade Meijer is atleast 30 years old while the K'zoo Ave. Store is the oldest supercenter fomat stores in existance.

[DwntwnGeo]

4.) I've been to Meijer stores in Halland, Lansing, Muskegen, Kakamazoo and Indianapolis, and have not noticed any where near the distressing absence of competitiors large and small as I did when I visited the Wally-Worlds I've been to.

Meijer is a big box, there is no denying that, and a small bussines had better be on the ball if Meijer presents itself as a competitior. But going by what I've seen, Meijer is very benign compared to Wal-Mart.

[Veloise]

...3.) Come to my stomping grounds in Walker and focus attention on the Standale Shopping District. A few years ago, Meijer opened a 207,000 sq. ft Store on the ruins of an old Drive-In movie theater on Lake Michigan and Wilson. ...

[LA Dave]

My impression of all the GR m/billionaires is that they are "just folks"--clearly that is true of Fred and Lena Meijer. I have already related a story involving a visit by Fred to my family and as I recall, Fred did drive up in a not-new grey Oldsmobile.

It is such a refreshing difference from the ultra-rich out here, who build massive homes, wall off the Malibu beaches and jet to and fro in their Gulfstreams. Be thankful, Grand Rapidians.

[tamias6]

I think I would blame city planners for cases where Meijer and Wal-Mart end up building side by side. Cadillac is a small town so it is obvious that the market up there is not big enough to support both stores with out somthing giving out. But in came Wal-Mart anyway. I don't keep track of politics up there. But my guess is either the town's planners where too naive to the negative effects of having both stores sitting side by side or did not have the monies and / or fortitude to at least put up a good resistance to discourage Wal-Mart from upgrading to a Supercenter. Both Meijer and Wal-Mart have every right to built new stores, as any other expanding business should have. But I think there should be some kind of law put in place to keep them from building side by side like in Cadillac's case or over saturating the market with an overly dense cluster of stores. Any Big Box stores of similar format to each other that are 75,000 sq. ft or greater in size should be separated from one another by a distance determined by their maximum Marketing radius and population density. In the case of Wal-Mart, Meijer, and Super Target, that distance would be 2-3 miles for dense areas like the GR Area and the Greater Detroit Metro and up to 10 miles for smaller towns like Cadillac. This would still enable proper competition between Big Boxes but allow enough breathing room for mom and pop's to stay in business.

Maybe the problem lies when both stores compete in the same area? We both agree they are big box stores, and there are other areas in the state that I can suggest, that have only a WalMart (no Meijers) and their downtown are holding their own.

The point with my hometown is that they had a WalMart for years and not much changed, but when they build a Meijers and they had both, the locals were done. So who's fault is it? Everone here would seem to want to blame WalMart, but could it be just as much Meijers fualt too? They are both taking customers away from local businesses IMO.

[tamias6]

Not everybody in the GR area is rich. Yes we have our fair share of Escalades and McMansions. What city dosen't now-a-days? For the most part Grand Rapidians put pants on the same way, one leg and a time. As for Fred, he could have been born with a silverspoon in his mouth. But I don't recall any silverspooners starting off in their father's growing grocery chain as a humble bag boy either.

My impression of all the GR m/billionaires is that they are "just folks"--clearly that is true of Fred and Lena Meijer. I have already related a story involving a visit by Fred to my family and as I recall, Fred did drive up in a not-new grey Oldsmobile.

It is such a refreshing difference from the ultra-rich out here, who build massive homes, wall off the Malibu beaches and jet to and fro in their Gulfstreams. Be thankful, Grand Rapidians.

[torgo]

I think I would blame city planners for cases where Meijer and Wal-Mart end up building side by side. Cadillac is a small town so it is obvious that the market up there is not big enough to support both stores with out somthing giving out. But in came Wal-Mart anyway. I don't keep track of politics up there. But my guess is either the town's planners where too naive to the negative effects of having both stores sitting side by side or did not have the monies and / or fortitude to at least put up a good resistance to discourage Wal-Mart from upgrading to a Supercenter. Both Meijer and Wal-Mart have every right to built new stores, as any other expanding business should have. But I think there should be some kind of law put in place to keep them from building side by side like in Cadillac's case or over saturating the market with an overly dense cluster of stores. Any Big Box stores of similar format to each other that are 75,000 sq. ft or greater in size should be separated from one another by a distance determined by their maximum Marketing radius and population density. In the case of Wal-Mart, Meijer, and Super Target, that distance would be 2-3 miles for dense areas like the GR Area and the Greater Detroit Metro and up to 10 miles for smaller towns like Cadillac. This would still enable proper competition between Big Boxes but allow enough breathing room for mom and pop's to stay in business.

[tamias6]

Your point is valid. I've been to a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Petosky and other than the typical sprawl that is generated from a big draw such as them, there seems to be no ill effects on the surrounding retailers and DT businesses. Infact the large strip mall next door to Wally-World is teeming with small mom and pops mixed in with your typical big boxes. Even the old K-mart across the street is still open. Of course all the tourism of that place may be at play there, more so in the DT area added to the fact that many of the mom and pops in the area seem have very vertical business models I.e. highly specialize in products and services out of reach of Big Boxes. The same can be said for Walker's Standale area when Meijer opened in that area. But in these cases the markets of both mentioned areas where large enough to absorb the impact of a supercenter with little or no ill effects on mom and pops. Hopefully the same can be said for the GR Metro area since it is many times bigger than Petosky and Cadillac combined.

Your other point about Wal-Mart's method of proposing a new store is interesting. I've seen videoclips of how they are proposed. (Man, I wish I still had the links) The reps, the corporate heads dispatch to targeted areas, do a steller job at pitching proposals to local officials. They lay out data, economic and environmaental studies, traffic impact studies, fancy renderings, the whole nine yards. I'd be able to sell you realestate ten miles west of Muskegon if I had the savy of a Wal-Mart rep. But then look at the shear size and power Wal-Mart as a whole. They have the financial backing and the manpower to put together a tight professional package that would convince even the most harden skeptics. On the other hand most anti-Wal-Mart groups are composed mostly of common John and Jane Does that don't have as much understanding of city planning, the dynamics of the retail industry, and the marketing skills Wal-Mart has. However the most powerful weapon anti-Wal-Mart groups have is amassing the community against Wal-Mart and pro-Wal-Mart city officals via protests. But if the fight goes to court then Wal-Mart has an army of Lawyers at the ready to legally outflank any opposition. I have read cases where anti-Wal-Mart groups win the fight against Wal-Mart. But those cases are a small minority despite easily getting the attention of mass Media. In short what Wal-Mart wants Wal-Mart gets. California is the only place where Wal-Mart ran into a brick wall. But with a Wal-Mart supercenter going in La Quinta, CA this year, Wal-Mart is starting to break through.

Well planning doesn't necessarily work that way. I dont think the planners in Cadillac sat around and thought that it would be awesome if Meijer and Walmart were side by side. Or, they may have thought it would be better to have the two stores in one area, as opposed to opposite sides of town. That way, all of the crap is in one area of town instead of two. Secondly, just because we all hate big boxes here doesn't mean that everyone on the planet does. There are lots of people (and municipalities) that absolutely love having Walmart around. I worked on a Walmart case a while back, and when Walmart is submitting applications and such, they have a huge package of about fifty letters from various City managers and Mayors who say Walmart is a wonderful neighbor. It is usually a lot more convincing and well-done than the snobby nonsense that the often disorganized and uninformed opposition brings forth. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Walmart either, but I had to raise a couple points. Carry on

[AlexPKeaton]

Your point is valid. I've been to a Wal-Mart Supercenter in Petosky and other than the typical sprawl that is generated from a big draw such as them, there seems to be no ill effects on the surrounding retailers and DT businesses. Infact the large strip mall next door to Wally-World is teeming with small mom and pops mixed in with your typical big boxes. Even the old K-mart across the street is still open. Of course all the tourism of that place may be at play there, more so in the DT area added to the fact that many of the mom and pops in the area seem have very vertical business models I.e. highly specialize in products and services out of reach of Big Boxes.

[GRDadof3]

Downtown Petoskey hasn't taken much of a hit it seems. The shopping is a little more upscale than Wal-Mart and there are a number of specialty stores. The entire block which contained the old movie theater and a couple other buildings was razed and a developer is building a mixed use development there. Funny enough, despite being downtown, that development has generated a ton of controversy. There have been some allegations of corruption and some people think the development is too tall at 7 floors at it's highest point (I think).

-nb

[snoogit]

I think I've been in that movie theater in Petoskey many years ago. Strangely I seem to remember sticky floors and it smelled funny.

Back to the Plainfield Meijer and the Plainfield corridor, FilmMaker is right (back in this post) in that Grand Rapids Gravel owns a couple of HUGE chunks of land (about 350 acres) just a block West of Plainfield (near Meijer). When the Meijer gets overhauled, and Plainfield can do some street upgrades and spruce up the area, I think this land could really take off as residential. It's also near Northview High School (Michigan Blue Ribbon school I believe). 350 acres at a density of 2 - 3 homes/acre is a lot of new rooftops to draw from. I'm not sure where the new water plant is going in this area? In addition, across Coit is low-lying land bordering the Grand River that I don't think can be developed. Would make for a nice expanded recreation area for Plainfield residents.

That would seem to make the old 4 Mile/Plainfield mall a lot more desirable for redevelopment, instead of plowing over greenfields out at 7 Mile.

[AlexPKeaton]

I think I've been in that movie theater in Petoskey many years ago. Strangely I seem to remember sticky floors and it smelled funny.

[Veloise]

I think I would blame city planners for cases where Meijer and Wal-Mart end up building side by side. Cadillac is a small town so it is obvious that the market up there is not big enough to support both stores with out somthing giving out. But in came Wal-Mart anyway. I don't keep track of politics up there. But my guess is either the town's planners where too naive to the negative effects of having both stores sitting side by side or did not have the monies and / or fortitude to at least put up a good resistance to discourage Wal-Mart from upgrading to a Supercenter. Both Meijer and Wal-Mart have every right to built new stores, as any other expanding business should have. But I think there should be some kind of law put in place to keep them from building side by side like in Cadillac's case or over saturating the market with an overly dense cluster of stores. Any Big Box stores of similar format to each other that are 75,000 sq. ft or greater in size should be separated from one another by a distance determined by their maximum Marketing radius and population density. In the case of Wal-Mart, Meijer, and Super Target, that distance would be 2-3 miles for dense areas like the GR Area and the Greater Detroit Metro and up to 10 miles for smaller towns like Cadillac. This would still enable proper competition between Big Boxes but allow enough breathing room for mom and pop's to stay in business.

[FilmMaker]

Back to the Plainfield Meijer and the Plainfield corridor, FilmMaker is right (back in this post) in that Grand Rapids Gravel owns a couple of HUGE chunks of land (about 350 acres) just a block West of Plainfield (near Meijer). When the Meijer gets overhauled, and Plainfield can do some street upgrades and spruce up the area, I think this land could really take off as residential. It's also near Northview High School (Michigan Blue Ribbon school I believe). 350 acres at a density of 2 - 3 homes/acre is a lot of new rooftops to draw from. I'm not sure where the new water plant is going in this area? In addition, across Coit is low-lying land bordering the Grand River that I don't think can be developed. Would make for a nice expanded recreation area for Plainfield residents.

That would seem to make the old 4 Mile/Plainfield mall a lot more desirable for redevelopment, instead of plowing over greenfields out at 7 Mile.

Don't give up the fight before any shots have been fired.

[FilmMaker]

I think someone's already taken your advice, because I've started to see some plots on GRAR.com being sold for residential on just that gravel pit.