Expanding Downtown

[goodbye]

I don't know if this is stillt the problem it once was, but many of the local shops on Main do not open on Sunday. How can you be closed on what is probably the second best day of the week for retail?

[goodbye]

Most of the shops do open on Sunday, but their hours are ridiculously short - usually between 12:00pm and 5:00pm. Even many of the nice dining options are not available in the evening. That is sad for a place with such growing popularity among locals, visitors, and tourists.

[Spartan]

There are two things you need to consider here. One is that the number of people walking around downtown has literaly doubled since just a few years ago. If this trend continues (and I don't see why it wouldnt) you are likely to see more national retails pick up interestin in downtown. This leads me to my second thing, which is that a national retailer of some sort would truely help downtown. Having one of the "big guys" set up shop would solidify the retail environment downtown, and it could very well attract more people there to shop. People like the security and familiarity of known environments, and that includes chain stores. All of that will have to lead to the expansion of that 'main st' feel to other areas.

[breed]

Downtown is cheaper for retail than the suburbs. It's largely due to the lack of national retailers. National retailers pay the highest rents for the locations they want. Up to this point, a national retailers haven't "wanted" to be in downtown.

Trying to convince a national retailer to be the first to go somewhere is difficult. No one wants to go back to shareholders trying to explain why a risk was taken and did not succeed.

McBee Station represents a change in that thinking though. If it can successfully integrated with downtown, it may pave the way for more national retailers to arrive. When that happens, retail rents will rise across the board downtown, and alot of local tenants will get run out. But those that can manage to stay competitive will become very successful.

Regarding Mast... from what I heard, they are paying below-market rent.

[btoy]

Before Magnolia Park was announced I ran into a Broker scounting locations downtown for the retail companies he represented, those were Crate & Barrle, Williams & Sonoma, West Elm and some others, but my guess if we get them now it will be at Magnolia Park.

[mallguy]

There's already a Williams-Sonoma at Haywood (formerly at Greenville Mall)- I could see West Elm coming there as well, or somewhere on Woodruff. Charlotte is just now getting a Crate & Barrel.

[GvilleSC]

I don't even know exactly what these stores are, but I have heard their names thrown around.

Do you know for sure that those stores are definitely not coming downtown?

[vicupstate]

Downtown is cheaper for retail than the suburbs. It's largely due to the lack of national retailers. National retailers pay the highest rents for the locations they want. Up to this point, a national retailers haven't "wanted" to be in downtown.

Trying to convince a national retailer to be the first to go somewhere is difficult. No one wants to go back to shareholders trying to explain why a risk was taken and did not succeed.

McBee Station represents a change in that thinking though. If it can successfully integrated with downtown, it may pave the way for more national retailers to arrive. When that happens, retail rents will rise across the board downtown, and alot of local tenants will get run out. But those that can manage to stay competitive will become very successful.

Regarding Mast... from what I heard, they are paying below-market rent.

[btoy]

I don't even know exactly what these stores are, but I have heard their names thrown around.

Do you know for sure that those stores are definitely not coming downtown?

[breed]

I agree with your post, but Mast owns their building. They bought it at a 50% (500k vs. 1mm) discount from the city.

[Chickenwing]

For those of you who love Mast, what is its appeal? Maybe I just don't get it. I have been a couple of times, but never bought anything really.

[vicupstate]

The ambience of the old General Store/ old DT mercantile is a big part of the draw. Until they opened, I hadn't seen much of the candy they sell since my childhood. Nostalgia is definitely part of the experience. Maybe you are too young to have an appreciation.

Most of their clothing is outdoorsy looking or geared toward cold climate/hiking/etc. That's not where my tastes run, so I don't buy that kind of thing, but many people do.

They also have a good assortment of knick-knack gift items, that sometimes fit the bill. They were/are a great addition to the DT retail scene, but more similiar-sized retailers are needed.

[breed]

Nostalgia... and gifty stuff for "the outdoor type".

Also, if you have kids... it is the perfect place for stocking fodder.

[GvilleSC]

The city's wayfinder signs that line Main Street in the city Center are expanding into the West End. You know the ones: "More to enjoy on ______ street"... It dissapoints me that they are the same as the city center's in design. This is a chance for the West End to continue developing with its own identity and the style of these signs aren't as historic looking as I think they should. It's kind of out of character... Anyway, that's not why i'm posting this. This sign is located on RIVER STREET at CAMPERDOWN WAY. It's not on Main Street... It seemed like a big deal to me.

[Greenville]

The city's wayfinder signs that line Main Street in the city Center are expanding into the West End. You know the ones: "More to enjoy on ______ street"... It dissapoints me that they are the same as the city center's in design. This is a chance for the West End to continue developing with its own identity and the style of these signs aren't as historic looking as I think they should. It's kind of out of character... Anyway, that's not why i'm posting this. This sign is located on RIVER STREET at CAMPERDOWN WAY. It's not on Main Street... It seemed like a big deal to me.

[GvilleSC]

That is cool that we are finally getting enough "off-Main" attractions to warrant new wayfinder signs. I agree that the signs in the West End should have their own design, colors, and attention to detail - separate from those on the other side of the river.

[krazeeboi]

The city's wayfinder signs that line Main Street in the city Center are expanding into the West End. You know the ones: "More to enjoy on ______ street"... It dissapoints me that they are the same as the city center's in design. This is a chance for the West End to continue developing with its own identity and the style of these signs aren't as historic looking as I think they should. It's kind of out of character.

[goodbye]

Those signs can also be seen on River Street.

[gs3]

The city's wayfinder signs that line Main Street in the city Center are expanding into the West End. You know the ones: "More to enjoy on ______ street"... It dissapoints me that they are the same as the city center's in design. This is a chance for the West End to continue developing with its own identity and the style of these signs aren't as historic looking as I think they should. It's kind of out of character... Anyway, that's not why i'm posting this. This sign is located on RIVER STREET at CAMPERDOWN WAY. It's not on Main Street... It seemed like a big deal to me.

[RestedTraveler]

I'm somewhat torn as well, but perhaps I can suggest a compromise.

Why not use the same format (size, shape, font, etc.) for the wayfinder signs and other signage in the West End District (and other historic districts of downtown), but use a different color scheme in each to help provide visually establish a separate identity for those parts of town while at the same time providing continuity with the signage system?

[goodbye]

I'm not for any use of a different color scheme using the same format. If new colors are to be used, the format should also be different. Too much variation can and does make such design elements look cheap. Consistency is what strengthens elemental design details. I personally think these signs are perfect for West End as it is today - a vibrant, upbeat, and booming district in downtown Greenville. You may have noticed the City's West End ("we") logo already, which does give the district a unique distinction. Perhaps incorporating that logo into banners (as RT suggested) would create the image what you guys want.

[RestedTraveler]

I've seen wayfinder-type signage in other cities that used this same color identity for different districts and I didn't find it cheap at all. It wouldn't have to involve too much color variation, either. The city really has to look no further than the maps that have already been provided to take a cue:

North Main signage could be Green.

CBD signage could be Yellow.

West End signage could be Blue.

[goodbye]

That would not be changing the color scheme at all then, just using the original colors in a different manner. I thought you were saying the City should actually add new colors to the same format. Sorry for the misinterpretation, RT.

[linkerjpatrick]

I know this sounds pretty picky but I work with fonts and design issues a lot and to me the lowercase "g" has always bothered me a bit. It seems to communicate we are a "lowercase" town and technically it's grammatically incorrect.

I guess that want to be distinctive and "artsy" but I wish the city would stop "sulking" with a lowercase inferiority complex and show a little more pride by going uppercase. I'm sure some designer and committee had their reasons but as a citizen the lowercase really bothers me.

[vwsam]

I know this sounds pretty picky but I work with fonts and design issues a lot and to me the lowercase "g" has always bothered me a bit. It seems to communicate we are a "lowercase" town and technically it's grammatically incorrect.

I guess that want to be distinctive and "artsy" but I wish the city would stop "sulking" with a lowercase inferiority complex and show a little more pride by going uppercase. I'm sure some designer and committee had their reasons but as a citizen the lowercase really bothers me.