Atlantic Park (Under Construction)

[757Duke]

The new rendering picture on the Pilot website has a nice modern look to it.

[757Duke]

Here's a video rendering of the site.

 

[BFG]

The video actually looks pretty promising. Beggars can't be choosers, but I'd love to see maybe another story or two on some of the buildings. Looks nice regardless...reminds me of the Lynnhaven Mall courtyard area.

 

When the original arena proposal came out a few years ago, I believe the rendering also featured an ESPNZone, although that may have been contingent on the area getting a team. I think the dome site would be a nice area for a sports bar like ESPNZone.

[vboceanfront]

I'm really glad to see that this project is based around an outdoor promenade. The earlier developer's renderings suggested one big building – which sounds a lot like Waterside. If the mix of businesses is right, this place has the potential to be really nice. There are some DC area developments like this that work quite well. A lot of the Pilot commentors are being childish about the bowling alley concept, but the one in DC's Chinatown (Lucky Strike I think?) was always full – and that's with really expensive drinks. 

[HRVA]

Lucky Strike is beautiful. And the drinks are expensive. Lucky Strike is why I'm excited about Uptown Alley at Pembrooke. I think the area can support two upscale alleys especially considering the proposed locations.

[BFG]

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/dome-site-developer-misses-deadline-on-entertainment-venue-in-virginia/article_d8f5b495-e7c1-55b0-adfa-9ab5a1e15960.html

Developer misses the deadline for the site. I didn't even know this was still a thing.

[baobabs727]

On July 6, 2016 at 5:55 PM, NFKjeff said:

I was watching WAVY News and the developer of the proposed VA ViBE said that the advent of the Simon Premium Outlet Mall in Norfolk will saturate the retail market rendering their project as planned likely unsuccessful. 

Based on the following quote from the May 14, 2014 Virginian-Pilot article by Kathy Hieatt, it appears that Virginia Beach sought a development which was almost exclusively entertainment oriented, rather than retail. 

"Though Peterson has major chops - including more than $300 million a year in revenue and accomplishments such as the $2 billion mixed-use development at National Harbor outside Washington - it has never created an exclusively entertainment-focused venue like the one the city wants."

It seems more likely that Peterson was having trouble putting together the type of entertainment-based project which Virginia Beach was looking for.

Aside from the retail element, Peterson's claim regarding the Simon Premium Outlet Mall is not very believable on a time line basis. Simon submitted it's final plan for the mall to Norfolk City Council in Oct. 2015, and Peterson released it's most recent rendering of their project in June of 2015.

I agree with your sentiments 100%, and I have already sent three emails to the Virginian Pilot and to the writer of the articles.

Peterson's excuses for their abject failure to deliver are complete and utter hogwash. Pure spin. Very disingenuous.  Somebody needs to let Peterson know that their time is up, and that they carry 100% of the responsibility for this fiasco of an endeavor. 

How clever of Peterson to blame big, bad Norfolk!  They must think we're stupid. Clearly, they're hoping that Council, already stinging from Norfolk's recent successes on our border, will eat this Norfolk hate-slop right up!

Well, the fact is that, contrary to Peterson's assertions, there is very little--if any--overlap between the Norfolk Outlets and their Oceanfront project.  Indeed, Simon is proposing 335,000 ft.² of upscale, discount outlet retail with a food court, while Peterson was proposing a mere 40,000 ft.²  of specialty/boutique retail (to include, in their words, "gourmet shops and wine stores"... none of which I really ever see at a Simon outlet) plus 65,000 ft.² of sit-down-national-upscale, "experiential" dining concepts...plus dynamic entertainment in the form of two theaters, a bowling alley, etc. 

Wow, sooo similar!

Now... a newly reinvigorated Lynnhaven Mall, VB Town Center, & up and coming Pembroke Mall... those venues are much, much closer to the Oceanfront than is Lake Wright, for starters. And Town Center, most esspecially, has the entertainment, boutique retail, and "experiential" national eateries that Peterson would kill for!  

And yet no mention of these places as prime competition in Peterson's excuse tour?!? 

Oh, and notice that those three establishments were around long before Peterson ever introduced itself to this market, and yet Peterson obviously still thought that they would/could succeed here! 

In sum, Peterson is simply trying to draw attention away from its failure to deliver on promises made, time and time again, specifically by scapegoating an outlet mall some 25 minutes away in a much maligned neighboring city, with zero proposed "experiential" restaurants and no entertainment component! 

I hope and pray that no one is buying this spin!

 

Edited July 8, 2016 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

That was a BS excuse if I've ever heard one. They need some new PR people. 

[vdogg]

On July 8, 2016 at 4:54 PM, urbanvb said:

Here is a photo and story timeline so far.

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/photo-timeline-virginia-beach-arena/article_eaa06507-47df-54ee-a774-0a9fd2743a37.html#utm_source=pilotonline.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletters%2Finside-business%2Ffriday%2F&utm_medium=email

That timeline is for the arena though, not the dome site.

[urbanvb]

You're right. I'll try to move to the arena thread. 

[BFG]

Walt Taylor's cartoon about the site is a great one too. 
http://pilotonline.com/opinion/editorial/cartoons/walt-taylor/walt-taylor-the-dome-s-calendar/image_09ccb56d-6790-5dcc-8ee1-5ede958c4391.html

It's interesting that after 22 years, they still haven't found a use for the Dome site.

[urbanlover568]

Looks like they are discussing the some site still. Will be interesting to see if they maybe go with other proposals or reduce the current proposal. 

[urbanvb]

Looks like the dome site has 3 new proposals. 

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/we-finally-may-have-something-developers-pitch-ideas-for-building/article_e379d6ef-2552-5b1e-a6a1-9efb8c3ba4f8.html

[BFG]

I'm all in favor of something going there, but those proposals sound so underwhelming compared to what was proposed the last few years. I don't think City Council should simply approve something just to approve it, but I guess we just gotta wait and see.

[baobabs727]

Yes, no rebound affection please.

[vdogg]

Can't really get a feel for it without renderings. I'll wait to see the proposals before I pass judgement. 

[Virginia City]

None of those sound unique or appealing at all honestly.

[BFG]

I remember one of the earliest renderings - this was probably when the Kings rumor was heating up - showed an ESPN Zone as part of the arena or entertainment complex.

If they do something with the Dome site, they definitely need to have restaurant options there. I know one of the proposals calls for a "major entertainment tenant"

[BFG]

I get that the Sandler Center is much smaller, but does VB really need another auditorium? The other proposed ideas sound cool, but I don't think the theater is necessary. No reason why the Dome site hasn't been able to find a working project after 20+ years.

[Virginia City]

The only way I see any type of theater going there is if it is attached to a House of Blues or a Hard Rock Café. Both of which I think would be fantastic down there. 

[carolinaboy]

11 hours ago, BFG said:

I get that the Sandler Center is much smaller, but does VB really need another auditorium? The other proposed ideas sound cool, but I don't think the theater is necessary. No reason why the Dome site hasn't been able to find a working project after 20+ years.

And also, isn't there another theater proposed in town center with that mid-rise residential building?

[BFG]

7 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

And also, isn't there another theater proposed in town center with that mid-rise residential building?

I believe so, but it would hold even less than Sandler if I'm not mistaken. 

Here's my gripe: this 3,500-seat theater reeks of trying to one-up Norfolk, with Chrysler Hall, still a very nice venue. I don't think Broadway shows are going to bypass Norfolk to go all the way to the Beach, and they definitely won't do shows at both.

Let Chrysler or Sandler continue to get plays and some concerts, let the arena get bigger shows like Beyonce or Cirque du Soleil, ditch the Beach theater idea, or downscale tremendously (250-500 people at most). Bring on a major restaurant, esp. if it's something like Hard Rock. That would be great for tourism.

Edited February 9, 2017 by BFG

[BFG]

The arena developers want to do something with the Dome site. I'll believe it when it happens.

http://pilotonline.com/business/real-estate/arena-developer-joins-list-wanting-to-remake-old-dome-site/article_0dae95ae-7dd3-5eb4-9d9c-2a891364a308.html

[baobabs727]

Poor VB. Really gets short shrift around here sometimes. After all, it's only a very recent phenomenon that Norfolk has shown any signs of renewed competitive spirit. The development of Town Center and the VB Convention Center, plus the Hilton 31 St. development, were pretty much the biggest things going in the region after the advent of MacArthur Center in 1999. 

On another note, I read everything I could get my hands on about these competing Dome site vision--their principals and their past projects--and I came away thinking it's probably going to come down to Cordish vs. ESG/AECOM/AEG.

Edited April 19, 2017 by baobabs727

[Virginia City]

Cordish has already failed in the area once with the Power Plant, while I think Waterside will be successful I would give it to AEG since they can tie to dome site to the arena.