Atlantic Park (Under Construction)

[urbanlife]

Well, it's not the worst thing they've ever designed... Then again, it's not the best thing I've seen. While I think it's a good point that 50+ story towers would not fit in, the architectural design of those buildings might be a nice change of pace for Virginia Beach. As it stands, the Oceanfront and much of its vicinity is extremely-uninspired, boring, and monochromatic. I think something more modern (larger) and glass with high-end, steel finishes a-la the "VB Dubai" look is actually worthy of calling itself a major convention hotel. Hell, as long as its better than the cube of an Embassy Suites Hotel in Hampton (although, architecturally quite lovely inside), then I guess it could be worse...

I agree

[spiker3]

Towers like the one's proposed by SunRise would not be alone for long. As we learned from Town Center, put up one unusually tall building in an extremely awkward place, and more will follow. Settling for mediocrity is a foolish thing to do. Is it the city's prerogative to remain a mediocre resort area, or become all it can be? The army has a way with words...

Took the words right out of my mouth. I missed this earlier, and that was the first thing that came to mind. The VB city council has proved their worthiness with development in the last three months, bumbling the SunRise development deal and now potentially settled for mediocrity instead of cutting edge or progress.

I did notice that the rendering seemed to be a little more detailed, more ltitle things made to stand out, than previously. SunRise has raised the bar, even if it looked out of place, and forced these companies to raise their standards. I'd expect the Dallas presentation to blow AH out of the water, and not spend foolishly, like a ludicrous $65 million automated tram. On paper a monorail sounds great, in practicality, it's a complete waste.

If AH wants to build an additional hotel at the beach, let them. Drop the monorail, make it an entertainment center, hotel and residential, and sign the Dallas firm to build a Hyatt next to the CC. Just because a building is within 3-4 blocks does not include it in the package. Why try grouping the dome site with CC when there's available land directly next to the CC? Laziness.

I like the rendering, i'm firmly behind SunRise to do their thing, i could care less about 50 story towers being too risky, screw the Navy, let them leave, and give us progress. If you build it, they will come. No one will risk putting one of these CMSS snoozers next to a beautiful modern glass and steel 40 story tower built by foreign developers, they'd be laughed out of the bank. We need someone to get on the ball with a modern, out of the box design, and using local developers is great for mid-rises, etc, but for big plans like this, we need more. Give me Dallas or SunRise anyday.

[vdogg]

Not normally a defender of CMSS but the architect is "Street Sense inc.", someone i've never heard of. This plan is better than what you would normally see from CMSS, but it does have that CMSS town center quality to it. It doesn't look resortish (word?) at all. I'd like to research this new firm a little more to see what they're capable of.

Street Sense website

Looks to be a mixed use consulting firm.

LOL, guess there's a reason this building looked like something straight out of Nova.

[urbanvb]

They seem to do good work. The National Harbor project really looks quite nice imo.

[rusthebuss]

I wish that there would be some way that Norfolk could snatch this up if the Beach doesn't want it! They could use the St. Pauls quadrant. and around Harbor park area. They could end up paying for the new arena for the city. I think that the beach is stupid to pass this by. Oceana is going to leave them high and dry and by that time its too late for them to find something to recover that money!

[spiker3]

Not normally a defender of CMSS but the architect is "Street Sense inc.", someone i've never heard of. This plan is better than what you would normally see from CMSS, but it does have that CMSS town center quality to it. It doesn't look resortish (word?) at all. I'd like to research this new firm a little more to see what they're capable of.

Street Sense website

Looks to be a mixed use consulting firm.

LOL, guess there's a reason this building looked like something straight out of Nova.

Quite good work, explains why the rendering is as detailed as it is. But looking over their projects, makes me wonder what they could do given a project of REAL size, not confined to a block or two. Many of their mixed-used developments are huge in scope and size, and the Dome site is so confined. Team them up with SunRise!! But seriously, great projects they're working on or have done, but it looks like AH watered down the rendering in comparison to their other work. And the site limitations don't help either. I'm still salivating over what Dallas brings to the table.

[vdogg]

Well this is interesting. I find it a bit coincidental that immediately after AH pitches their proposal the city is scheduled to hear a proposal on a Memorandum of understanding with the Navy.

[metalman]

I just caught WAVY News at 10:00. They talk about this development, showed pictures of the site, and showed Lou Haddad giving the presentation to city council. They mention that next month there will be a vote for a non-binding referendum for a 6 month feasibilty study of the hotel/entertainment complex for . They mentioned the hotel will be from 200 to 500 rooms and Bruce Smith is heading up the year-round entertainment portion of the project.

They said the monorail will go from the convention center to the oceanfront, then to the Rudee Loop, and to the Virginia Aquarium.

That is all...thank you...goodnight.

[urbanvb]

Now that is interesting. Such a plan would surely get the city's attention although I wonder how much of the taxpayers money would be required to pay for such a plan. This monorail plan is really getting much larger. While great in concept, I can't see taxpaying citizens getting excited about paying for a monorail they may never even ride.

[vdogg]

Now that is interesting. Such a plan would surely get the city's attention although I wonder how much of the taxpayers money would be required to pay for such a plan. This monorail plan is really getting much larger. While great in concept, I can't see taxpaying citizens getting excited about paying for a monorail they may never even ride.

I'm a little bit miffed that it it seems like they've already decided on this proposal just minus the formality of voting. Where was the 6 month feasibility study for sunrise? What about the Dallas proposal? I'm glad that the monorail will extend further than I was previously led to believe, I still don't think we should cough up 65 mil for it though. It's time for both Norfolk and Va. Beach to start paring down these developer handouts. It seems like the more we give, the more they ask for. Some of these projects can and should stand on their own, I think develpers simply know they can get the city to pay for stuff so they automatically ask for it instead of coming up with solutions of their own.

[vdogg]

I also fear that with this monorail, there will be less of a chance of tying light rail into the oceanfront.

[okinawatyphoon]

I also fear that with this monorail, there will be less of a chance of tying light rail into the oceanfront.

That's probably true. But that's VB. They have to have everything their own way. I wish they would think of mass transportation in HAMPTON ROADS instead of just their city. Light Rail is our best hope.

[tombarnes]

Some cities do get the reputation of being "goodtime girls" for developers. It's time for some anti-prostitution legislation, don't you think?

[spiker3]

Armada Hoffler asks for study of its development plan

Armada Hoffler wants first crack at developing a convention center headquarters hotel and entertainment complex at the Oceanfront, and that has some Virginia Beach City Council members feeling cornered.

Armada Hoffler President Lou Haddad asked the City Council on Tuesday to start a detailed study with the company to determine whether its $215 million proposal for a hotel, entertainment center and monorail at the former Dome site, at 19th Street and Pacific Avenue, is viable.

Any sympathy or interest i had in supporting this project is now gone...

However, while city staff evaluates the proposal and the taxpayers' $65 million potential investment in it, the company doesn't want the city to solicit plans to develop other prime city-owned land at the Oceanfront. "We tried to put something together that we thought would help move the city forward," Haddad said of the Armada Hoffler proposal. "We believe this is the best configuration, that gives our city the best bang for the buck."

...

Under a so-called non exclusive agreement with Armada Hoffler, the city could continue to negotiate with Sun Rise, Hyatt, and any other company that comes forward. However, the city couldn't actively seek proposals.

"They say it's non exclusive, but if we do it the way they want to do it, it becomes exclusive," Councilwoman Reba McClanan said.

Vice Mayor Louis Jones said Armada Hoffler's proposal is the most realistic. If the company is willing to spend $1 million in the six-month period to flesh out this project, it needs some commitment from the city, Jones said.

"I think that's fair and that's reasonable," Jones said.

Don't think it's any question as to whose pocket Jones is in...at least the other City Council members seem to be taking a let's see it all approach. I'm also glad the Pilot slanted the article firmly against AH. Probably has to do with them driving to kick them out of Town Center

And to top it off....

A public hearing on the Armada Hoffler proposal is scheduled for Feb. 6.

Whether Armada Hoffler is willing to participate in a more competitive process is uncertain.

"We would have to evaluate the situation," Haddad said.

Edited January 24, 2007 by spiker3

[vdogg]

Screw it then. If they are not willing to compete in a competitive process, which is the way we do things here in America, then they can take their ball and go home. I'm sure Sunrise and Hyatt will be a little more willing to engage in the process.

Don't think it's any question as to whose pocket Jones is in...

Indeed.

[Padman]

Amen to that. If the Beach wants a white elephant monorail, they can certainly build it themselves and have it go wherever they want. After all, they would have to foot the bill.

[vtfan18]

This is why all of VB will eventually look like TC. We continue to allow the same local developers to sprout their cookie cutter projects. If a local developer's proposal is the best option, then so be it, but don't exclude outside developers from the bidding process. It's like only allowing Ford car dealerships in HR and no one else just because their plant is in Norfolk.

[vdogg]

The dome site proposal briefing is online now. Just push play (if it doesn't start playing as soon as you click the link). It is the very first item discussed.

[vdogg]

Lou Haddad: "If there really are people who can transform us into a world wide destination then we need to step aside."

Wow, the newspaper portrayed this far differently than it actually played out, he was actually quite concilliatory in some of his statements.

[vdogg]

I'm so tired of hearing "we need to make sure it satisfies the Navy" that I think i'm gonna

[vdogg]

One of the highlights, they want to send out RFPs and they want the Navy to be part of the RFP process.

[vdogg]

Sheesh! These people are still talking. At any rate, it looks like Vice Mayor jones was the only one immediately behind AH in the non-exclusivity agreement. There was no mention of the city not being able to solicit bids from other companies quite frankly (I don't know where the pilot came up with that). There was a difference of opinion between AH and the city on an RFP as opposed to and RFQ and the difficulty coming up with and RFP in the timescale alloted. A lot of legalese starting to be thrown around, at which time I normally go deaf, so maybe someone with a little more knowledge of the process can help educate. This video has been running for an 1hr and a half and is still going. The comments about the RFP come in starting at about an hour and 10 minutes in.

Honestly they all seem a bit nervous and overwhelmed by all the attention the city is getting from developers lately. I think they're a little out of their depth.

[vdogg]

Ok, the attorney clarified. AH is indeed asking for exclusive rights to negotiate and if their proposal is rejected then the city can negotiate with others. This clarification did not go down warmly with council.

[erdogs]

Did you see Andy Fox come in late? He must have just left happy hour. The project looks better than I expected, but it's not quit there.

[vdogg]

Did you see Andy Fox come in late? He must have just left happy hour.

Haha, yes I did and I was thinking the same thing.