Grand Rapids Airport (GRR) News and Developments

[MJLO]

12 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

I would then wonder if there are any plans to fully wrap the arena. It seems like I remember the south wall being temporary with expansion in mind. That would solve the venue size problem. 

I think any plans of actually expanding the arena or completing the bowl were scrapped a while ago.  The arena is now 23 years old.  The city should do what other cities with 23 year old arena's do, tear it down and build a bigger one.  

[Pattmost20]

2 hours ago, MJLO said:

I think any plans of actually expanding the arena or completing the bowl were scrapped a while ago.  The arena is now 23 years old.  The city should do what other cities with 23 year old arena's do, tear it down and build a bigger one.  

Crazy that it is 23 years old, I remember going to Griffins games in the inaugural season. Also seems to be holding up quite well.

[RegalTDP]

For history purposes: MSU was the last host school to put an NCAA bid for Van Andel Arena.  That was in 2012 and the bid was for the 2014 and 2015 tournaments: https://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2012/09/grand_rapids_michigan_state_bi.html

WMU hosted the 2009 bid for the '11/'12/'13 tourneys.  In 2009 the minimum seating capacity for a First Four arena was 12000, which Van Andel doesn't have and the bid was a longshot.  In 2012 the minimum was reduced to 10000, which helped our case, and we at least got an NCAA rep to come to GR for a site visit that time.

Currently all the lower round & regional hosts have been decided up to 2022; not sure when the next bids are due, but yeah, MSU & GR should partner up again.  Dayton keeps hosting because the NCAA has a clear preference for places that have already hosted in the past (they didn't select ANY new venues the year MSU put in their bid).  Come on NCAA, try somewhere new for a change.

Edited July 24, 2018 by RegalTDP

[Raildude's dad]

On 7/17/2018 at 1:55 PM, GR8scott said:

haha not that long ago that the runway didn't exist and the road went straight through there. Anyhow, my point was if the long term plan to actually rebuild and expand that runway anyway, that would be the time, it would make a lot of sense to do it and isnt some pipe dream, Holland doesn't have nearly the air or automotive traffic and added one about 10 years ago. There isnt a larger airport in the country that is adjacent to an interstate and doesn't provide direct access, its like the back is against it. I would think GR, MDOT and maybe other agencies would be interested in providing the releaf and creating a shorter and easier route to downtown for thousands every day. 

I finally found the time to look in the archives. The north runway was a 4000 foot asphalt runway in 1974. Today it's a 5000 foot concrete runway. As I said, the roadway was cut off in the late 60's.  The runway has been there 44 years.  You says thousands go from the airport to downtown every day.  I would question that. The airport offered a shuttle to and from downtown and it was discontinued for lack of patronage. My wife is a very out going individual, she will strike up a conversation with the person(s) next to her on the plane.  My anecdotal experience is downtown isn't where the majority of passengers are going to and from the airport.

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

I finally found the time to look in the archives. The north runway was a 4000 foot asphalt runway in 1974. Today it's a 5000 foot concrete runway. As I said, the roadway was cut off in the late 60's.  The runway has been there 44 years.  You says thousands go from the airport to downtown every day.  I would question that. The airport offered a shuttle to and from downtown and it was discontinued for lack of patronage. My wife is a very out going individual, she will strike up a conversation with the person(s) next to her on the plane.  My anecdotal experience is downtown isn't where the majority of passengers are going to and from the airport.

I would agree with this. I read an article that said most convention visitors (most visitors here period) live within driving distance. 

[arcturus]

14 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

You says thousands go from the airport to downtown every day.  I would question that. The airport offered a shuttle to and from downtown and it was discontinued for lack of patronage.

The shuttle service was discontinued when airport passenger traffic was 3,300 per day less than now.   Complementary shuttle services offered by downtown hotels and the new ones coming online plus Uber/Lyft  plus a growing downtown population could spell a decent number heading there.   Hard to quantify but with traffic exceeding 3 mil a year and just 1 of 20 heading downtown who desire an inexpensive solution I could see an hourly shuttle which might be viable again.

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, arcturus said:

The shuttle service was discontinued when airport passenger traffic was 3,300 per day less than now.   Complementary shuttle services offered by downtown hotels and the new ones coming online plus Uber/Lyft  plus a growing downtown population could spell a decent number heading there.   Hard to quantify but with traffic exceeding 3 mil a year and just 1 of 20 heading downtown who desire an inexpensive solution I could see an hourly shuttle which might be viable again.

You might have a point. That was probably 10 years ago that they ended the service, which I believe primarily served the Amway owned hotels. 

[thebeerqueer]

On 7/28/2018 at 12:56 PM, GRDadof3 said:

You might have a point. That was probably 10 years ago that they ended the service, which I believe primarily served the Amway owned hotels. 

I seem to remember it stopping at three or four hotels but with extremely limited service hours, long intervals between pick-ups and around $30 each way. I think the Uber I took to and from GRR in January was $18. 

[TheSutterKing]

"GO" Shuttle is a service I've used in Miami and San Diego and it's been a quality shuttle. It would be nice for them to set up at GRR.

[ZAP!]

19 hours ago, TheSutterKing said:

"GO" Shuttle is a service I've used in Miami and San Diego and it's been a quality shuttle. It would be nice for them to set up at GRR.

Feels like the name would get confused with The Rapid's GO!Bus.

https://www.ridetherapid.org/additional-services/go-bus

[arcturus]

Oh heck yes, Phoenix and Tampa!

ht

tps://twitter.com/FlyGRFord/status/1027188311205584897

[Pattmost20]

2 hours ago, arcturus said:

Oh heck yes, Phoenix and Tampa!

ht

tps://twitter.com/FlyGRFord/status/1027188311205584897

Getting so close. Just give me SFO or LAX (Would love San Diego, but I won't hold my breath for that one).

[GR8scott]

13 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

Getting so close. Just give me SFO or LAX (Would love San Diego, but I won't hold my breath for that one).

About time!

[walker]

22 hours ago, arcturus said:

Oh heck yes, Phoenix and Tampa!

Here's the press release that gives a few more details:

Frontier adding seasonal service to Tampa and Phoenix-Sky Harbor

Remember, this isn't the only service to Phoenix.  Allegiant already has been flying limited service to the Phoenix/Mesa airport.  Same with Tampa, Southwest is already flying seasonal service to Tampa.  Both of the new Frontier routes are also seasonal. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by walker

[arcturus]

9 minutes ago, walker said:

Remember, this isn't the only service to Phoenix.  Allegiant already has been flying limited service to the Phoenix/Mesa airport.  Same with Tampa, Southwest is already flying seasonal service to Tampa.  Both of the new Frontier routes are also seasonal. 

True that understanding Phoenix/Mesa on a good day is nearly 40 minutes from downtown with limited connections.  It should also make happy the 'anything other than Allegiant' crowd who have had a poor experience with them mainly because of issues relating to their aging fleet which they've been slow to modernize.  The 60 minutes expose didn't help.

[MJLO]

http://www.grr.org/PDFs/NRs/nrStats0718.pdf

Airport on track to be 2nd fastest growing airport in the nation.  See July numbers.

That's a double digit surge in passengers.  It appears the airport is gaining momentum as the year goes on.   Something to consider for those who think the airport is over priced, and overlooked.   To put it in perspective, the airport has picked up almost 100,000 more passengers through the 1st seven months of 2018, than it gained through all of 2017 (which was also a record setting banner year).  IMO There has to be something else driving growth this strong outside of just a few added commercial routes.   Any thoughts?

[GR8scott]

1 hour ago, MJLO said:

http://www.grr.org/PDFs/NRs/nrStats0718.pdf

Airport on track to be 2nd fastest growing airport in the nation.  See July numbers.

That's a double digit surge in passengers.  It appears the airport is gaining momentum as the year goes on.   Something to consider for those who think the airport is over priced, and overlooked.   To put it in perspective, the airport has picked up almost 100,000 more passengers through the 1st seven months of 2018, than it gained through all of 2017 (which was also a record setting banner year).  IMO There has to be something else driving growth this strong outside of just a few added commercial routes.   Any thoughts?

Reasons? Finally not among the most expensive in the nation? Finished with construction? Less attrition to other airports? Of course more flights and larger capacity planes help too.

I find it hard to believe it would be 2nd in the nation in growth. It’s not even fastest on record for the airport. 09-10 grew over 400k and ~19%. 

[MJLO]

13 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

I find it hard to believe it would be 2nd in the nation in growth. It’s not even fastest on record for the airport. 09-10 grew over 400k and ~19%. 

I suppose you'd have to check their math.  It's in the first sentence of their press release in the link.  They say it continues it's as the 2nd fastest growing airport.    They are on pace to be 1.1-1.3 million more passengers than  2010s 2.1 million passengers.  That growth was a more of a rebound from the great recession.  This growth is coming on the back of year over year growth every year since.  Up 15% is no slouch.   

Per the reasons you give, I think the evidence points to still a big portion of market attrition for leisure travelers out of GRR.  The people who don't travel for business still appear to be largely trained to fly out of Detroit or Chicago for vacation.  There might be a shrinking of attrition, but I've got to think with all of the economic growth, the need for increased capacity has been coming from increased business activity in the region.  

[walker]

5 hours ago, GR8scott said:

Reasons? Finally not among the most expensive in the nation? Finished with construction? Less attrition to other airports? . . . . 

Here's what I wrote on a different forum a few months ago in response to a post by MJLO about what the reason might be:

One reason for the big increase that’s not mentioned in the article might be the new Founder’s Brewpub between concourse A and B.  Because it’s on the other side of security you need to buy a plane ticket to get through security to get to it.  Any actual travel is just an incidental byproduct.  Sure, that’s a big expense but for beer fanatics it’s no different than what rock fanatics spend for concert tickets to see an aging rock star.

 

[BLUESCRUBS]

14 hours ago, walker said:

Here's what I wrote on a different forum a few months ago in response to a post by MJLO about what the reason might be:

One reason for the big increase that’s not mentioned in the article might be the new Founder’s Brewpub between concourse A and B.  Because it’s on the other side of security you need to buy a plane ticket to get through security to get to it.  Any actual travel is just an incidental byproduct.  Sure, that’s a big expense but for beer fanatics it’s no different than what rock fanatics spend for concert tickets to see an aging rock star.

 

It sure would be nice if there was a small sit down restaurant pre-security to sit down and have a meal with friends/family/coworkers. I remember in the past there was the small sports bar. Just a chill/kill time kind of place.

Edited August 21, 2018 by BLUESCRUBS

[thebeerqueer]

1 hour ago, BLUESCRUBS said:

It sure would be nice if there was a small sit down restaurant pre-security to sit down and have a meal with friends/family/coworkers. I remember in the past there was the small sports bar. Just a chill/kill time kind of place.

I thought there was a little cafe off to the right before you go through security but I just tried looking for it on GRR's website and that thing is a disaster. For some reason I'm seeming to recall it being a Leininkugel's bar/cafe. 

[joeDowntown]

Anecdotally, we just looked for tickets to the Dominican Republic next Spring and they’re $300 cheaper than Chicago or Detroit. That’s new to me  

Joe

 

[Hoeks]

On 8/21/2018 at 9:45 AM, thebeerqueer said:

I thought there was a little cafe off to the right before you go through security but I just tried looking for it on GRR's website and that thing is a disaster. For some reason I'm seeming to recall it being a Leininkugel's bar/cafe. 

Here is a picture of the Leininkugel's bar before security (next to Starbucks).    This was early in the morning, but when I landed yesterday at 5:30, the seats were full.   

 

[GR8scott]

So not only did frontier finally bring direct flights to PHX (although not daily), American is adding seasonal flight there (only Jan-March but mainline daily American). kind of an odd combination of service but I’m sure if it sells could easily expand.

https://www.grbj.com/articles/91531-airline-adding-destination

 

[walker]

14 hours ago, GR8scott said:

So not only did frontier finally bring direct flights to PHX (although not daily), American is adding seasonal flight there (only Jan-March but mainline daily American). kind of an odd combination of service but I’m sure if it sells could easily expand.

https://www.grbj.com/articles/91531-airline-adding-destination

 

Interesting that they are using the much bigger A319 on the PHX route compared to the ERJ175 on the new Miami route,  A319 124 seats vs ERJ175 76 seats.   I think the choice was because the ERJ175 range might be just a few miles short of making it to Phoenix.  The A319 is a nice mainline plane but it is going to be little tougher to fill the plane.