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joeDowntown

Grand Rapids Airport (GRR) News and Developments

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Even though I'm not a fan of their way of doing business, all the Allegiant planes parked around Concourse A lately sure makes GRR look like a busy airport.

Looking west from the indoor view area: 

274473273_AllegiantConxorseAwest.thumb.jpg.28bcfc57678275872ba9b2f36aab7653.jpg

and yet another plane on the east side of Concourse A:

1652635553_AllegiantConcorseAeast.jpg.81066a8af6345935ca6888b4fada3d0e.jpg

Not sure how they can make any money with all these planes just sitting on the ground.

Edited by walker
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2 hours ago, walker said:

Even though I'm not a fan of their way of doing business, all Allegiant's planes parked around Concourse A lately sure makes GRR look like a busy airport.

Looking west from the indoor view area: 

274473273_AllegiantConxorseAwest.thumb.jpg.28bcfc57678275872ba9b2f36aab7653.jpg

and yet another plane on the east side of Concourse A:

1652635553_AllegiantConcorseAeast.jpg.81066a8af6345935ca6888b4fada3d0e.jpg

Not sure how they can make any money with all these planes just sitting on the ground.

That could have something to do with them making GRR an operating base 

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Nothing about Midwest Express since their demo flight back in August.  Here's an update from the Milwaukee BizTimes:

relaunch-of-midwest-express

EDIT  - the latest is that relaunch has been delayed until at the least the end of the first quarter 2020:

 MILWAUKEE MAGAZINE: midwest-express-return-delayed-again

Edited by walker
breaking news - delayed again

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Okay so this feels like a big deal? LAX, Austin, and Boston. (Okay mostly the LAX part.) 

I wish we could get more news from the legacy carriers. I’ve never flown Allegiant and don’t have a whole lot of interest or incentive to, but I’m glad they’re investing in these routes. 
 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/allegiant-air-adds-3-nonstop-flights-from-ford-airport/

Edited by GVSUChris
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45 minutes ago, GVSUChris said:

Okay so this feels like a big deal? LAX, Austin, and Boston. (Okay mostly the LAX part.) 

I wish we could get more news from the legacy carriers. I’ve never flown Allegiant and don’t have a whole lot of interest or incentive to, but I’m glad they’re investing in these routes. 
 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/allegiant-air-adds-3-nonstop-flights-from-ford-airport/

I think these are 3 excellent routes (especially LAX as it is the first nonstop to the west coast).

I've flown Allegiant a few times. Based on how cheap they are, it is worth it. Especially to warm destinations where you can pack light and avoid paying all of the extra fees.

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2 hours ago, GVSUChris said:

Okay so this feels like a big deal? LAX, Austin, and Boston. (Okay mostly the LAX part.) 

I wish we could get more news from the legacy carriers. I’ve never flown Allegiant and don’t have a whole lot of interest or incentive to, but I’m glad they’re investing in these routes. 
 

https://www.woodtv.com/news/kent-county/allegiant-air-adds-3-nonstop-flights-from-ford-airport/

We've flown Allegiant twice now out of GRR. We had good experiences both times. 

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4 minutes ago, gvsusean said:

Have any international routes been announced yet?

Probably wont until the custom center is closer to being built. 

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Interesting thread in the forum airliners.net that covers Michigan airports outside of Detroit which means mostly GRR.  Several of the most recent entries at the bottom of the thread in the link below talk about the new Allegiant flights along with gate congestion at GRR.  

CAUTION - this is kind of a geek site so they often talk in shorthand using airport and airline codes and acronyms rather than just taking the time to spell out what they are talking about.  And just like here, much of what is written is opinion and wishful thinking rather than solid fact.

The rest of Michigan Aviation Thread 2020

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56 minutes ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I've flown out of GR once. I'll fly out again in March. On AA. The thing is, I'm horrified of flying. How do you people do it so casually?

Expect that death is imminent. Everything else is a welcome surprise! :) LOL.

Joe

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I would say this is big news. I think it was just a matter of time before LAX route was picked up by Allegiant considering they flew to smaller and further routes from there but Austin and Boston are a pleasant surprise. Allegiant is really unknown by most travelers and virtually no business travelers and personally not a fan of it also Because these routes are only seasonal and most likely one or two times per week so hard to get the scheduled times that you want on these routes. But if the flights stay full it could lead to mainliners picking up those routes, I could see delta to BOS and LAX, Whereas Austin seems ideal for the allegiant model along with destinations like New Orleans in nAsheville. Sounds like the terminal expansion can’t get here fast enough and could really lead to a lot more  flight options And even new carriers In the next few years. 

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1 hour ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I've flown out of GR once. I'll fly out again in March. On AA. The thing is, I'm horrified of flying. How do you people do it so casually?

What part is horrifying to you? The takeoff? Landing? Just knowing that you're in an object that weighs 300 tons that is basically floating in the air at 38,000 feet? :) 

Personally I like to have a window seat and I like to watch the flight option on the TV's to see where we are, how fast we're flying, and the altitude. I can't handle being in an aisle seat, gives me anxiety. 

 

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2 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Expect that death is imminent. Everything else is a welcome surprise! :) LOL.

Joe

Ha Ha, that’s been my philosophy too.  In my late teens and very early twenties I used to fly a lot and just for fun.  United had this special half-fare standby youth fare if you were under twenty-three so I would fly to Chicago for twelve bucks and hang out around the airport or take a bus downtown for a few hours then fly back home.  Never got bumped, planes weren’t crowded back then.  But as I got older and discovered it wasn’t just the adults that I knew that didn’t know what they were doing, it was all of them, I got scared of flying and didn’t do any flying for years.  But then I came to the conclusion that I was going to eventually die anyway and 30,000 feet might turn out to be as close as I’d get to heaven.  

Sorry, this probably doesn't help.

Edited by walker
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1 hour ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I've flown out of GR once. I'll fly out again in March. On AA. The thing is, I'm horrified of flying. How do you people do it so casually?

You're probably not getting drunk enough.

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I think Allegiant is testing eventually making GR/MI's West Coast a northern destination focus for warmer cities.  Essentially more of a hub than just a focus city.  I think this was a big driver behind the decision to more than double the amount of gates on concourse A, since right now Delta hogs the majority of them. With the volume of flights they keep adding here, almost all  of the seasonal routes are sticking around longer and adding days.  I'm not sure which of the seasonal ones haven't gone year round.  

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1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

What part is horrifying to you? The takeoff? Landing? Just knowing that you're in an object that weighs 300 tons that is basically floating in the air at 38,000 feet? :) 

Personally I like to have a window seat and I like to watch the flight option on the TV's to see where we are, how fast we're flying, and the altitude. I can't handle being in an aisle seat, gives me anxiety. 

 

ironyisadeadsceneI second the window seat.   Seeing the horizon helps keep your bearings straight and you can see the outside conditions.   Also,  the closer to the front, the smoother the ride.  When i first started traveling, I was a nervous flyer.   I now travel quite often.   Early on, what helped me is watching YouTube videos explaining turbulence, and what those sensations really are.    Flights are often times smoother than driving on the road (and much safer).   Reminding yourself of these things, and repetition will help.   

In terms of flights, it would be great if Delta added a direct LAX, SFO or SEA/PDX.   Once international is ready, a London or Amsterdam would be great for a Europe gateway.   

Edited by Hoeks
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Allegiant has done not only a good job anticipating demand but creating it .. both ways.  It's not enough to have outbound demand, there needs to be sufficient inbound as well.

I'm wondering if SW Air might take a bit of a hit.  I don't know the LA or Austin market very well but you can bet many would be eager to  skip Midway altogether.

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2 hours ago, Hoeks said:

ironyisadeadsceneI second the window seat.   Seeing the horizon helps keep your bearings straight and you can see the outside conditions.   Also,  the closer to the front, the smoother the ride.  When i first started traveling, I was a nervous flyer.   I now travel quite often.   Early on, what helped me is watching YouTube videos explaining turbulence, and what those sensations really are.    Flights are often times smoother than driving on the road (and much safer).   Reminding yourself of these things, and repetition will help.   

In terms of flights, it would be great if Delta added a direct LAX, SFO or SEA/PDX.   Once international is ready, a London or Amsterdam would be great for a Europe gateway.   

I watch these YouTube's by a pilot who recreates crashes using flight simulator. What I learned from that is almost all crashes are from human error. I cant tell you how many times a plane crashed and it's because the pilot won't listen to the advice of the FO or whatever. Or failed to do the checklist and had flaps down when they shouldn't.

 

So that actually made me more confident. Still. The idea of being 7 miles up and not a damn thing you can do if something goes wrong is horrifying. You're aware of your coming death. 

 

But when I fly, I almost always look out the window (fiance always takes it and I lean over her) and have the screen on flight details. So yeah that does help.

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25 minutes ago, ironyisadeadscene said:

I watch these YouTube's by a pilot who recreates crashes using flight simulator. What I learned from that is almost all crashes are from human error. I cant tell you how many times a plane crashed and it's because the pilot won't listen to the advice of the FO or whatever. Or failed to do the checklist and had flaps down when they shouldn't.

 

So that actually made me more confident. Still. The idea of being 7 miles up and not a damn thing you can do if something goes wrong is horrifying. You're aware of your coming death. 

 

But when I fly, I almost always look out the window (fiance always takes it and I lean over her) and have the screen on flight details. So yeah that does help.

Indeed, and I believe ~80% of incidents happen within 2 minutes of landing or take off. And something like 80% of pax fatalities occur once the plane is on the ground (unable to exit properly/quickly). Fatalities/incidents of planes falling out of the sky are extremely rare. 

Planes are equipped to take off, fly for 120 minutes if over water, and land all on one engine. 

If that’s not enough to comfort you, O2 (or lack there of) concentration at cruising altitude all but ensures one would pass out within seconds if there’s a depressurization event. 

I just tell myself the scariest parts of flying (turbulence) are actually the most harmless. Most turbulence will flutter the wings inches or a foot or two. Airplanes are designed to withstand wing flex to like 18 feet I believe. 

Edited by kwl

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I have an acquaintance that is a pilot for SW. He says he has no concerns about flying or taking his family on a 737-8 Max. He says they practice and practice and practice taking control of the plane manually. The Ethiopian Air plane was on auto pilot for take off and the co-pilot with the controls had 200 hours flight time.

Most of the 737 800 and 900 s run 60-70 tons.  737-300 and 500's (SW's GRR planes) run about 50 tons. 747's - 777's run from 260 to 340 tons. 787 Dreamliner weights in at about 200 tons. They don't "float", they are pushed by those big jet fuel turbine fans.:) Daughter and SIL just flew nonstop an AirNZ Dreamliner Chicago to Auckland NZ 16 hrs 11 minutes in the air. 25 minutes taxi time at O'Hare, 10 minutes in AUK.. They are splurging for the  "Economy Skycouch" on the way back. They get 3 seats for the 2 of them that turns into a bed like area.

Get on flight tracker and see al the planes in the air at any given time. You have a better chance of getting in crash on the way to the airport than the flight. At least that's what I tell myself.  The initial ascent used to get to me. As soon as the wheels are off the ground, up goes the nose and away you go. :). The engineer in me is amazed by all the thrust the 2 (usually) turbines are generating.  And if you are behind the wing and can see the landing gear, watch those tires go from 0 to 150 mph in a second.  All the black on the runway is from the acceleration as the plane lands.

Edited by Raildude's dad
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2 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

I have an acquaintance that is a pilot for SW. He says he has no concerns about flying or taking his family on a 737-8 Max. He says they practice and practice and practice taking control of the plane manually. The Ethiopian Air plane was on auto pilot for take off and the co-pilot with the controls had 200 hours flight time.

Most of the 737 800 and 900 s run 60-70 tons.  737-300 and 500's (SW's GRR planes) run about 50 tons. 747's - 777's run from 260 to 340 tons. 787 Dreamliner weights in at about 200 tons. They don't "float", they are pushed by those big jet fuel turbine fans.:) Daughter and SIL just flew nonstop an AirNZ Dreamliner Chicago to Auckland NZ 16 hrs 11 minutes in the air. 25 minutes taxi time at O'Hare, 10 minutes in AUK.. They are splurging for the  "Economy Skycouch" on the way back. They get 3 seats for the 2 of them that turns into a bed like area.

Get on flight tracker and see al the planes in the air at any given time. You have a better chance of getting in crash on the way to the airport than the flight. At least that's what I tell myself.  The initial ascent used to get to me. As soon as the wheels are off the ground, up goes the nose and away you go. :). The engineer in me is amazed by all the thrust the 2 (usually) turbines are generating.  And if you are behind the wing and can see the landing gear, watch those tires go from 0 to 150 mph in a second.  All the black on the runway is from the acceleration as the plane lands.

They do "float." You can push a jet car 500 mph on salt flats and they never go airborne. The difference with a plane is that the air traveling under the wing goes faster than air traveling over the wing. This difference in air pressure causes the plane to lift (float) off the ground. :)

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