U.S. National Whitewater Center

[rockhilljames]

I read about that community. When I was flying out of Charlotte on Sunday I flew right over the whitewater center (it looks great from the air and probably confuses the heck out of a lot of people) and had a chance to examine the surrounding land. While there is a pretty large tract of wood just around the facility, it is literally surrounded on all sides by residential development. I was rather hoping that that land around the center might be preserved for camping and hiking, it looks to be the last large block of forest in the area.

On another note, it seems to me that the center is actually doing ok. When I inquired about having my group go on a rafting trip, I was told to book several weeks in advance since their schedule was so full. They do need two things, in my opinion: 1. More advertising. I'm betting there are an amazing amount of people in town that don't know about it. Also, people in Western NC would come to Charlotte for this, so they should be advertising heavily in Asheville, Boone and areas like that. 2. Easier access. It's not easy to get to. I know they're working on that so that should be fixed soon.

[mad_park]

Hate to be negative, but why would someone in asheville or boone - where there are real rivers - want to come to a 1 mile man made river?

Would be like living in Vail, Co and going to an indoor ski place http://www.newsobserver.com/438/story/759976.html

Also, don't see how not having a main road into the place would deter folks. Is some guy bringing a church group down from Greensboro going to decide to wait a year b/c there is a 1 mile dirt road leading to the place?

They definitely need a big sign on I-85 - right now someone driving through might think it is just a training center for pro kayakers - not a place aimed at everyday joe's.

[Andyc545]

They definitely need a big sign on I-85 - right now someone driving through might think it is just a training center for pro kayakers - not a place aimed at everyday joe's.

This is one of the biggest problems right now. As concluded advertising is very scarse right now, and I wouldn't have even known it was in my backyard if I hadn't heard about it being built in the Observer. #1- They definitly need signs for the exit and proceeding to it on I-85, as I wouldn't know where to go without Google Maps. #2-They need billboards or ads on the new motion, tv looking billboards, on I-85, I-77, I-277, etc. #3-They need to do more online advertising and 'out-of-charlotte advertising. I don't know how effect it would be getting Western NC to jump on this, given their position in the mountains, but I think that it certainly would cater to many other outside areas that are lacking. I don't think Western NC really has any whitewater rafting, correct me if I'm wrong, so maybe this could serve to this area even better, given their fond surroundings of nature and outdoor activities.

[monsoon]

Hate to be negative, but why would someone in asheville or boone - where there are real rivers - want to come to a 1 mile man made river?

Would be like living in Vail, Co and going to an indoor ski place http://www.newsobserver.com/438/story/759976.html.....

This story is an example of a poorly written and researched article. The indoor Ski Dome in Tokyo they are referring to, and which I have been in, was torn down in 2003 because it could not make a profit considering the huge expense. The paper seems to have completely missed that fact. If an enterprise such as that, can't make it in a city of 30M people it's not likely to make it in NC.

You do make a good point about people living in the mountains and why they would come to the center in Charlotte. I can imagine that it might be more desirable to go to the center during the winter months, and possibly to meet other people who are interested in the sport. Variety.

[Justadude]

I know quite a few people in western NC who are really into kayaking and other river sports, and believe me... they will go wherever they need to if it offers a good run. Two of them, independently of each other, just flew out west to kayak the Grand Canyon. As long as the Center "sells" the quality of the product to these kinds of people, they will happily make a 3-hour drive to Charlotte to give it a run.

[Charlotte_native]

I think one of the reasons this works for those who are really into the sport is the controlled environment. I met one of the guides out there when we went this summer and he said he likes it because he can practise all the time going round and round. In a real river you have to continually be driven back to the top of the run. Pros and cons to both, but it is like cyclists who still train in a gym at times -- more for stamina and conditioning than anything else.

I do think, though, that it is less likely to drive from very far away to do this (i.e. Asheville, or WNC) but for locals or those in a relatively close driving range it will be great.

They also can change which pumps are on and other factors in the stream to make the rapids different and the flow and eddy's change so you aren't going over the exact same rapid day after day.

[Justadude]

Not to mention that it's something of an attraction to know you're practicing in an Olympic facility. People who are really into a sport are going to want to have that notch on their belt -- especially in kayaking, where there's a lot of "name value" associated with different runs.

[swampfox43]

I am completely sold on the Whitewater park after my experience back in August. Mad_park, you asked why someone in Asheville or Boone would trek down to Charlotte for this experience when they live closer to the real deal. I am sure there are a lot of people in those areas that would feel safer in a man-made controlled enviroment to start off. Once they gain a little confidence, then they may be more likely to run the Nantahala.

One may look at an aerial photo (see below) and wonder just how you can get your $35 worth on a 1 mile course. It's actually 2 different courses. I color coded the 2 courses blue and yellow to show the ones not familiar exactly what you get. The purple dots are where I noticed rafters fell out the most.

First of all, you have to attend a 30 minute seminar on safety and procedures. You also sign a waiver. Then you get with your appointed guide and head to the loading area which I color coded in bright green. From there, we went on the blue run. This is basically a warm up for the yellow coded run. The blue run is quite fun though. Every trip around is a different experience since you don't follow the exact path each time. Plus, you may actually go down backwards (if you're lucky).

We took 3 trips around the blue run and 3 trips around the yellow class 4 run. This is where most people fall out. I think the guide told us they can change them to class 5 if needed. After our 6 trips around, which took over 2 hours, it was getting dark and the lights were coming on. Wow! It really looks nice with the lights. Our guide asked us if we wanted to go around again but we were all beat. It's really a work out so we decided to call it a night. It's well worth the money, regardless of where you live. And The Eddy restaurant is great for a meal or a drink afterwards.

[rockhilljames]

Well, my point about people near Asheville/Boone is just what other people mentioned: If you love something, you'll check out a new run or opportunity. Plus, given that there is also a rope course, and hiking/biking trails, for an outdoor nut there is a ton of stuff to do.

[mad_park]

Right but the hardcore don't need to be advertised to. They will find out and seek the it out on their own.

In order to pay the bills, this place needs to appeal to (and draw) the masses. People who wouldn't normally venture up into the mountains and go on a real river. Or people who have rafted before but want to learn to kayak in a safe, controlled environment.

[swampfox43]

Well, my point about people near Asheville/Boone is just what other people mentioned: If you love something, you'll check out a new run or opportunity. Plus, given that there is also a rope course, and hiking/biking trails, for an outdoor nut there is a ton of stuff to do.

I can really relate to that. I have been a hardcore roller coaster enthusiasts for almost 20 years. Myself and a few friends would often seek out the newest, highest, fastest coasters traveling the US and abroad, and sometimes we would hit the smaller not so thrilling coasters. I think the hard core whitewater enthusiasts will check it out at least once and hopefully more.

I mentioned in a post back in July (same thread) that I met some people from New Zealand and Finland who had specifically added USNWC to their itinerary. I was pretty amazed to hear that.

[reverbandwhiskey]

I just want to point out that the center has AWESOME mountain biking trails, and affordable bike rentals.

If any Urban Planet people want to learn how to ride, let me know. I'd be glad to come out an organize a lesson or two.

[Charlotte_native]

I just want to point out that the center has AWESOME mountain biking trails, and affordable bike rentals.

If any Urban Planet people want to learn how to ride, let me know. I'd be glad to come out an organize a lesson or two.

The first day we went to the center (early summer) we were naive and thought we could walk up, suit up, and hop on a raft. They were completely booked so we rented bikes and rode the trails. It was fantastic. Plenty of trails, the bikes were cheap, I think around $20, and it really didn't feel like you were so close to the city.

We did go back for rafting 3 times after that.

[Andyc545]

Do you have to pay 35 dollars per trip around, or for those that have ridden 3-6 times on the 2 courses, get to ride multiple times, or unlimited depending on the crowd for the 35 dollars. I am planning on going here for the first time when my brother comes down after Christmas. I'd also love to try the mountain bike riding, as I never have before and have always wanted.

BTW- Swampfox, me and you have something else in common. I am an avid fan of rollercoasters / thrill rides myself, and make frequent trips around the eastern side of the country with a small fanbase to ride. I used to webmaster a website on this stuff. PM me if you're more interested to hear about it. And to relate the two topics further, my friend from Buffalo is coming down who is in the industry professionally and is excited to come to this attraction, saying how thrilling it looks.

Edited December 20, 2007 by Andyc545

[swampfox43]

Do you have to pay 35 dollars per trip around, or for those that have ridden 3-6 times on the 2 courses, get to ride multiple times, or unlimited depending on the crowd for the 35 dollars. I am planning on going here for the first time when my brother comes down after Christmas. I'd also love to try the mountain bike riding, as I never have before and have always wanted.

BTW- Swampfox, me and you have something else in common. I am an avid fan of rollercoasters / thrill rides myself, and make frequent trips around the eastern side of the country with a small fanbase to ride. I used to webmaster a website on this stuff. PM me if you're more interested to hear about it. And to relate the two topics further, my friend from Buffalo is coming down who is in the industry professionally and is excited to come to this attraction, saying how thrilling it looks.

Andyc I will pm you for sure on the coaster stuff.

To answer your question, no, you do not pay per trip around. The fee has actually increased to $37 on weekends (was $33) and $35 on weekdays. I think the number of trips around may depend on your guide. Our guide was willing to take us around more than 6 times but we all pooped out after the 6th run. It is a real workout on the body. So, each guide may vary on what he/she does for their group but you will definitely go around each course more than once. The rental fees for the mountain bikes are separate though. I can't recall the price but I suppose if you had your own bike, it would be free to use the trail.

[Raintree21]

Andyc I will pm you for sure on the coaster stuff.

The rental fees for the mountain bikes are separate though. I can't recall the price but I suppose if you had your own bike, it would be free to use the trail.

Giant Trance Mountain Bike (Including Helmet)

2 Hours $35

4 Hours $40

Full Day $55

Giant Yukon Mountain Bike (Including Helmet)

2 Hours $25

4 Hours $30

Full Day $45

Giant MTX Youth Mountain Bike (Including Helmet)

Full Day $20

The trails themselves are free because they go onto Mecklenburg County Parks and Rec land.

[reverbandwhiskey]

The center's management wanted to start charging for trail access, but were denied. Now they want to charge for parking.

The original business plan had companies coming to do workshops and retreats. That is why they built conference rooms and what not. What they never understood is how difficult it is to any major regional workshops when there are no hotel rooms nearby. They are getting next to no corporate business.

[monsoon]

^Indeed, and with the road situation there, it's a bit of a challenge to get to the place. The recent opening of I-485 to Moores Chapel Rd should help some as well as the paving of that dirt road which existed for most of the year, but they really need to get the main highway open to the place if they want this situation to change. If the NCDOT ever finishes that part of 485, then a lot of new hotels will be closer from a time perspective.

[mad_park]

Those mountain bike trails were there LONG before anyone even considered putting a whitewater park there. The building and maintenance of them was done by the Tarheel Trailblazers club. Pretty telling if their core business (the whitewater rafting) isn't generating enough revenue so they turn to charging bikers to come and park or ride on trails that were already there.

[rockhilljames]

Nobody is charged for biking unless they rent a bike.

Parking is free.

[reverbandwhiskey]

Nobody is charged for biking unless they rent a bike.

Parking is free.

Parking is free, for now. At the meeting they stated that they were most likely going to start charging for parking.

[Justadude]

The original business plan had companies coming to do workshops and retreats. That is why they built conference rooms and what not. What they never understood is how difficult it is to any major regional workshops when there are no hotel rooms nearby. They are getting next to no corporate business.

That explains a lot. Outdoor-adventure businesses rely pretty heavily on selling to groups, from boy scouts to corporate teambuilders. The rafting centers on the Ocoee and Nantahala make a tidy profit off those kinds of groups, so I'd imagine that it's really hurting the USNWC's bottom line if they're not getting business from that angle.

[Raintree21]

I wonder if they were ever planning on building some "bunk houses" or something along those lines to attract small groups like the aforementioned boy scouts or church groups.

I think building a hotel to complete the package would kill their budget and be especially looked down upon since people are screaming bloody murder that they didn't make a profit their first year. Perhaps something private?

[rockhilljames]

Now that's a good idea. They should build a lodge as well, even if they let another company run it. It would add a new dimension to the center and you'd see groups from across the country coming to it.

[Andyc545]

I went here for the first time last Thursday with my brother who was in town. I must say, the experience and place was absolutely amazing, and you'd never know it was in Charlotte. 35 bucks each covered our wetsuit, booties, paddle, coat, and of course the whitewater rafting trip and training. It was a bargain, and worth every penny. The water was 46 degrees, but the two hours were exilerating. I was amazed how real it was to the actual thing, and it was even somewhat scary at the beginning, but once we got going, it really was amazing. So amazing, I'm going back with someone else this Thursday and already have a summer trip planned as well, for a night ride under the lights.

BTW: if anyone was interested in seeing, they posted our photos from the day. I was in the raft with the tour guide in yellow.

http://photos.usnwc.org/gallery/4061550#P-1-15

Edited December 31, 2007 by Andyc545