U.S. National Whitewater Center

[palmetto75]

Went to the park this past Sunday. Although the free parking was definately better I have no problem with paying the $5. I think for the avid users the $35 annual is not all that bad. Face it we all knew the park made sense from a cultural/entetainment standpoint and probably wouldn't work financially (at for wahile). If $5 is what it takes to put them over the top then I say charge away. I did notice it was by far the fewest number of cars in the parking lot I have ever seen, but that might have been due to the recent rain that caused many of the trails to be closed.

What I did think was a little high was the $15 for the upcoming Olympic Trials passes.

[Raintree21]

What? They're charging admission now to watch the events? That was one of their main attractions and what they advertised- the fact that you could watch for free. This is getting ridiculous. I read that they are going to be raising their price again soon as well.

[InSouthPark]

^^ I don't think they ever mislead anyone for the Olympic Trials being free. Tickets have been on sale for quite a while.

This is the Olympic Trials, not some local or regional event. And if you look at ticket prices, $15 for a 3 day pass, that is nothing. I am sure this is to control the crowds to make for an enjoyable event for the many families of the athletes. I doubt there are too many Olympic Trial events that are free to the public, especially ones that are held in a controlled venue.

[Raintree21]

Holy crap! They apparently raised prices AGAIN at the USNWC. It now costs $65 to raft on weekends and $40 during the week. It used to be just $39.

[swampfox43]

I guess those rafts burn a lot of fuel!

That is quite an increase. Last August, me & 5 others rafted on a Sunday for $189.00!!! Now, the private raft rates (for 6 rafters), are $390.00 on weekends!!! That's $65 a head for an approx. 2 hour raft ride.

I wonder when these went into effect and if it is a seasonal rate until, say, after Labor Day?

[tozmervo]

Holy crap! They apparently raised prices AGAIN at the USNWC. It now costs $65 to raft on weekends and $40 during the week. It used to be just $39.

Yeah. A few weeks ago I was hosting some out-of-towners and had planned to take them. Those plans changed pretty quickly when I realized how obscene the prices are now. We ended up just going to see a show in NoDa.

At $40 they were running pretty much the same price as real river rafting. I hope they don't run themselves into the ground with this crap.

[Raintree21]

At $40 they were running pretty much the same price as real river rafting. I hope they don't run themselves into the ground with this crap.

Definitely. I really wanted to go out there but have pretty much lost interest now. I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to being ripped off. I MIGHT consider the weekday rate but it's still getting obscene.

[InSouthPark]

Definitely. I really wanted to go out there but have pretty much lost interest now. I have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to being ripped off. I MIGHT consider the weekday rate but it's still getting obscene.

Absolutely agree with the weekend prices...They are out of control. I have said so many times, this place needs to rely on repeat business. I went last year and had a great time...for $39/pp. I don't see the value for myself for $65. Maybe a special occassion like my birthday or something, but not a "hey lets go to the whitewater park for the day" anymore.

It will be real interesting to see the numbers next year. My guess is they double thier loses from last year and it all started with pissing off the bikers and begin charging for parking. Higher prices doesn't always equal more money.

[DjStedali]

Well that stinks, they already lost another customer. For I was planning on taking my dad when he came into town for the day, I knew he would enjoy something like this. When I was first shown the place, the price surprised me cause it was so cheap and I knew this place I could see coming too a few times during the summer but now like InSouthPark said its more of a special occasion visit. I havent been following it but based on what I'm reading of kicking out bikers and charging for parking this place is going to go downhill real fast. Have the owners of this place ever run a travel industry related business before? Seems they are taking part of their ideas from theme parks, the part of it being that all theme parks are cutting down on prices and these guys are going up. It will interesting to see how this place is at the end of the summer season.

Edited June 23, 2008 by DjStedali

[InSouthPark]

I havent been following it but based on what I'm reading of kicking out bikers and charging for parking this place is going to go downhill real fast.

They haven't actually "kicked out" the bikers, more like slapped them in the face with the parking charge. The trails are maintained by a volunteer bike club (Tarheel Trailblazers) but the whitewater park profits from their work by charging for parking. Even members of the trailblazers now have to pay to park (or get the season parking).

I agree that these people probably have never run an "attraction". Seems to me they are doing everything in thier power to reduce the number of people that access the site, not increase it.

[monsoon]

I think they underestimated greatly what it would take to run that place and the debacle over the roads there didn't help. It's a great center but I think the management has made, and is making, some key decisions that is going to hurt the place in the long run. Is there a bus stop at this place?

[atlrvr]

Are they already operating at capacity? If bookings are less than 80% capacity, then marketing logic would indicate they are going the wrong direction in terms of pricing.

Love the concept, and lucky for them, they have the public on the hook for about 25% of the cost, but at these prices, I hope they have someone able to sign up a bunch of corporate outings.

[tozmervo]

Is there a bus stop at this place?

Not even close. There's not even a greenway connection. You pretty much have to drive or be a very, very brave person on those roads.

[swampfox43]

Since my last visit almost 2 months ago, I have noticed quite a few enhancements around the center and construction of the new zip line is well under way. The most notable addition is the new zip line tower beside the "Rivers Edge" (aka The Eddy) restaurant. I was told that it may open within the next 2-3 weeks. Below are a couple photos I took showing the starting point structure for the zip line, along with an aerial that gives you a better idea of the length. I am really looking forward to trying this!

This is the starting point for the new zip line right beside the restaurant. Drink a beer on the patio and watch the riders zip by!

This view gives you a general idea of the zip lines location. Much of the line will be over the water!

Although you can see the start and end points in this photo, the perspective is a bit misleading. This is a long zip line!

New signs adorn the trail entrances around the center.

All in all, it was nice to see continued improvements and additions being made to the whitewater center. The new weekend rates and parking fee did not seem to have an impact on the crowds. The restaurant, now called "River's Edge", has excellent food and at 1:30pm we were seated immediately and the service was exceptional. Also, you can use your $5 parking ticket for a free dessert if you by a meal.

One last thing. The new whitewater parkway is still not open. Although it's basically finished (I drove it during the Olympic trials), they are waiting on the state to inspect it. Initially I read that it was to open in June, but I am not sure what the delay is now. So for now, the only entrance is down Hee Hawfield Rd.

Edited June 29, 2008 by swampfox43

[tozmervo]

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...1451200^1698625

The CBJ is reporting that the USNWC is still hemorrhaging money. I suppose the usual word of mouth "I had a BLAST... but its really effing expensive" isn't helping them. I hope they reevaluate their rafting fees, I'd love to go back but there's no way I'm paying that much.

[DjStedali]

They should have just saved the money and not hired that stupid consultant. Obviously he may know how to run a business but clearly not in the tourism industry. This summer they should have made prime profits to start paying off those loans considering the vacation trend this year was to stay close to home. Family's money not spent on long distance vacations were spent on local attractions. Like you said tozmervo "I suppose the usual word of mouth "I had a BLAST... but its really effing expensive" isn't helping them." this was clearly the breaker. The idea for families was not to go on long distance vacations to save money but I dont think the idea was to spend just as much for something nearby.

Mumford has the right idea with getting major company sponsors. Thats one smart cookie. You have this huge venue throw some signs up, put some stickers on the rafts and life vests. Lets hope they just dont over do it and ruin the feel of the facility. All in all I say those consultants should rethink their plan that they created for Whitewater and start from scratch and the operators of Whitewater need to seriously rethink their pricing structure if they want to get those attendance and revenue figures to go up.

Edited September 14, 2008 by DjStedali

[monsoon]

It would seem that the US Whitewater center is doomed to failure without significant public assistance for the foreseeable future unless something is changed there. They are unable to pay their loans back yet continue to spend money and are begging the county government for handouts. What should happen to it?

[atlrvr]

The municipal governments involved should increase their equity stakes to retire the debt, force out the current group who owns the place. They should then hire new operators on a fee basis, and the municipalities should receive all profits and be liable for any deficits. It sounds like without debt, it would be marginally profitable.

It's obvious the current group is incapable of operating the facility, but it is too valuable a resource to shutter.

[rockhilljames]

Atlrvr, if you ever want to run for mayor, let me know. That sounds right on the nose to me.

[monsoon]

This is who they list as the Board of Directors of that place: (looks like mostly lawyers, doctors and bankers)

Bradford Barry Managing Director, Bank of America

Alan Dexter Partner, Parker, Poe, Adams and Bernstein

Alan Dickson Chairman, Ruddick Corporation

Glenn Garella Private Investor

Vic Howie Premier Banking & Investments, Bank of America

Charles Meakin MD Medical Director,

Gaston Memorial Hospital Cancer Center

Pat Mumford SVP, Wachovia

Chet Rabon Partner, Wells Daisley Rabon, P.A.

Ben Rudisill CEO, Rudisill Enterprises

Wayne Shovelin CEO, Caromont Health

Natalie Tindol Owner/GM, Tindol Ford

Walter Price SVP, Director of Federal Government Relations, Wachovia

Seems like a conflict of interest to me they have an elected official on the BOD when they are receiving public money. However one would think this bunch could come up with a plan to fix the place.

They could also ask this bunch for some help who are listed as being on the Board of Advisors (whatever that might be)

Bill Belk The Belk Group

Mike Butts Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority

Jim Chandler Chandler , Workman & Hart

Ed Daugherty Davidson College

Chris Grubb U-Vest Financial

Donny Hicks Gaston County EDC

Joe Jacobi 1992 Olympic Gold Medalist - U.S. National Canoe Team

Jim Love Spectrum Financial Inc.

Hal Kempson LJ Melody

Marty McCarthy St. John

[tozmervo]

This nearly slipped by me unnoticed, but as News 14 is reporting the Center's rates have been lowered for the 2009 season. You can buy a $49 "Single Day Unlimited" pass for access to all of the center's activities for a day. There are also new pass options for other individual activities and pretty good season pass prices if you're going to go 3+ times.

http://www.usnwc.org/AllSport-Passes.html

[Andyc545]

It's about time this place lowered prices. Maybe more people will actually go now and they could make some money. I know I will go when I have family in town next month if they indeed lower the price.

[Norm2]

I still think that this place is a little hard to find. You can even mapquest it, and mapquest tells you to go one wya but the sings tell you to go another way.....its confusing.

[monsoon]

I think they need to get rid of the current management and find another management group and BOD for that matter who will change the concept of this place so that it will be a bigger draw. They need to address several issues.

• First, as noted above, it is very difficult to find. Chalk that up to pure incompetence as they didn't do the proper due diligence on the property and where they could build a road. This needs to be fixed. While I don't care if you have to drive through a trailer park with Confederate flags and a goat farm, this probably doesn't help them get casual visitors. At least they finally paved it.
  
• It is simply too expensive. People might pay that fee, even the reduced one, once, then they are done. How many others are there in this region will come on a regular basis to support it? IMO, not nearly enough.
  
• They are going to need to extend the concept beyond whitewater rafting. There are 5 months in the year where people won't get in the cold water. See the above about not enough die hard rafters.
  
• In the summer, they have to compete against the much better rafting experience in the mountains. This is another reason they need to expand the concept to include other sports.
  
• I have also heard the current management has basically pissed off almost every other group that might use the park who isn't into rafting. The mountain bikers are particularly upset with them. Call me crazy, but a sound economic plan doesn't involve driving off people.
  
• Finally adding a parking fee was just plain stupid. In this region it simply pisses off people to have to pay to park in a dirt field. It also completely discourages the casual people who might come there to check it out so this potential new base of customers is gone.
  

Basically I think to sum it up, the place is too elitist and too expensive to survive in it's present form and if it wasn't for the taxpayer, yet again, it would have already closed down. $49 is the same amount that Hard Rock park tried to charge in Myrtle Beach last year and they had to close for lack of visitors. So I predict that at the end of the year, the same management will show up again and ask for more tax money which they think they are entitled to without question.

The concept of a self funding Whitewater Center has failed. It's not clear to me the people want or need such a thing in Charlotte. I don't see where it is bringing any positive recognition to the area. My recommendation is for the government to either divest itself of the place and let it sink or swim on its own. Or, fire the management, take it over and expand it into a true park that might appeal to others. They could add an olympic sized pool, some kiddie attractions, and have picnic and camping on the shores of the river. (which this place sits beside and strangely does not take any advantage of) This is a tried and true formula that would work there but won't happen while the present management runs things.

[Eastman]

Those are good points Monsoon. The pool might be a tough sell due to costs, upkeep, competing with Carowinds, etc., but I think the river could be a draw for camping, picnicing, this place could really push the nature experience without having to go to the mountains. I went once, checked it out, liked what I saw but I haven't been back. Maybe even a museum concept on the Catawba river and it's importance to the region. It gets the school programs out there and the kids interested in rafting. They do need a think tank though if they want to survive.