The State of Downtown Retail

[johnboyanoski]

Eden's signs said they were re-opening. That's a bummer that they're closing. I agree - I took a walk along North Main on Saturday and was floored by how many vacant store fronts there were. I had at least taken solace in the fact that Eden said they were going to re-open and now that's even gone. All the pedestrian traffic is heading to the West End.

Last time I talked to Eden's, they said they were moving to a new spot, but weren't sure where. They hope to stay downtown.

Also, as per Carolina Chocolates, they have plans to move things around in there. Pretty soon, you will be able to watch them dip the chocolate as you enter. That to me ( a recovering chocoholic) will become a destination store just to watch the chocolates made in front of you.

[RestedTraveler]

Also, as per Carolina Chocolates, they have plans to move things around in there. Pretty soon, you will be able to watch them dip the chocolate as you enter. That to me ( a recovering chocoholic) will become a destination store just to watch the chocolates made in front of you.

Any time you can see things (marshmellows, apples, banannas, strawberries, pretzels, etc.) dipped in chocolate in the window or watch them make fudge (oh, how I miss watching the fudge being made at Portside in Toledo) right before your eyes, it's a plus in my book. That will definitely be a draw if they do so, especially if pedestrians can see it from the sidewalk. They've somehow got to be able to do this during peak pedestrian hours and somehow still man the counter to sell the stuff. That'll be a trick for these folks as it appears to be a mom and pop shop.

At one time, Disney perfected this with their candy and chocolate shops at their parks and resorts, but they've even taken a step away from this in favor of mass production, it seems. I guess they don't see the need to draw them in when they're already a captive audience anyway.

[whitehourseview]

I was Eden yesterday and talked to the girl behind the counter. I thought they were just planning to remodel. Turns out they are closing the doors in two weeks. I also get the Feeling that Paris Cafe is struggling, and it that goes under then I could not blame it on the business model.

The amount of Vacant Retail on those two blocks of North Main is eye popping and depressing.

We got trouble, right here in River City!

What's Paris Cafe?

[mallguy]

Everyone seems to be so shocked by the closings downtown in the last couple of month (or two). I am not. I think that there are a couple factors that contribute to this:...

Please add to this list. It should come as no surprise that every retailer cannot be successful downtown. Let's try to look at the reasons and figure out a pattern for the closings that makes sense. There must be quite a few common factors.

3. High rents downtown

4. Lack of retail anchors, other than Mast

The stores that closed downtown were all very niche-market stores, similar to the ones in Greenville Mall after its anchors left: a pool table store, a ghetto clothing store, an east Asian crafts store, an ethnic book store, a karate studio, etc. That kind of retail can survive in a low-rent area but not when rents are in line with A-grade mall rents.

Edited January 24, 2007 by mallguy

[RestedTraveler]

What's Paris Cafe?

It's a quaint little sandwich shop and bakery across Main Street from Mast General Store and O.P. Taylors:

[gs3]

What's Paris Cafe?

The cafe / bakery / restaurant in this photo. Great breads, panini's, crepes, bistro type food. Excellent place! I think it 's owned by Pascale Leon from Hilton Head.

Well RT, I see we answered the same question at the same time.

Edited January 24, 2007 by gsupstate

[RestedTraveler]

3. High rents downtown

4. Lack of retail anchors, other than Mast

The stores that closed downtown were all very niche-market stores, similar to the ones in Greenville Mall after its anchors left: a pool table store, a ghetto clothing store, an east Asian crafts store, an ethnic book store, a karate studio, etc. That kind of retail can survive in a low-rent area but not when rents are in line with A-grade mall rents.

The rents have gotten high - at least that's what I keep hearing. I honestly don't see how any of these stores are able to make it, but at the same time, I think the landlords had best consider lowering their rents before they price themselves out of tenants.

We do definitely need at least one other major anchor on North Main - preferably a destination anchor such as Borders that will draw people into downtown and result in a spill over to the surrounding stores.

As for the unique nature of the niche-market stores, all I have to say is, "Keep Greenville weird!"

[gs3]

As for the unique nature of the niche-market stores, all I have to say is, "Keep Greenville weird!"

I agree with this and would like to add, if you haven't tried a restaurant on Main, then try it......if you haven't gone down a set of stairs or up a set of stairs on Main to discover whats at the end, then do it......if you haven't tried bubble tea, then do it......if there is any shop you haven't gone in, then go in and expand your horizons. Enjoy the great downtown we have and your enjoyment will make it even better!

[g-man430]

The reason these stores are closing is because the owners of them are too lazy and stupid to put advertisements out. Exceptions would be for places like O.P Taylors, Mast General Store, and Lynn Strong Jewelry that are actually still in business. Also, high rents is another main factor.

Edited January 25, 2007 by g-man430

[Greenville]

The reason these stores are closing is because the owners of them are too lazy and stupid to put advertisements out. Exceptions would be for places like O.P Taylors, Mast General Store, and Lynn Strong Jewelry that are actually still in business. Also, high rents is another main factor.

Advertising is not as easy as buying a billboard or having a television commercial. Marketing has to hit the right audience, and that is not always easy to pinpoint. I am sure most of these businesses have had a hard time making much of a profit - and that really cuts into your advertising budget!

[goodbye]

I agree with this and would like to add, if you haven't tried a restaurant on Main, then try it......if you haven't gone down a set of stairs or up a set of stairs on Main to discover whats at the end, then do it......if you haven't tried bubble tea, then do it......if there is any shop you haven't gone in, then go in and expand your horizons. Enjoy the great downtown we have and your enjoyment will make it even better!

Amen to that! I am tired of hearing people around here grumbling at the lack of stores they want downtown. So far, it sounds like some individuals just don't want to spend time checking into anything unique. I am not opposed to shopping at national retailers, but you'd better believe I'll shop local in a heartbeat when given the choice. Since we as residents have let down many of our best downtown retailers, let's not make the same mistake again and end up losing what we have left. It appears that we'll have little option but to accept national retailers into downtown, but I for one do not intend to get excited if they take over and exterminate the many local shops that enhanced downtown Greenville's charm.

[RestedTraveler]

...and that really cuts into your advertising budget!

You're absolutely right. Advertising (even the most minimal of advertising) can be very expensive and can certainly cut into your budget as a small business owner. This is one advantage that national chain retailers have over the mom and pop shops, unfortunately.

The best thing a mom and pop shop can rely on is word-of-mouth advertising from customers that they impress.

Edited January 25, 2007 by RestedTraveler

[Greenville]

Amen to that! grin.png I am tired of hearing people around here grumbling at the lack of stores they want downtown. So far, it sounds like some individuals just don't want to spend time checking into anything unique. I am not opposed to shopping at national retailers, but you'd better believe I'll shop local in a heartbeat when given the choice. Since we as residents have let down many of our best downtown retailers, let's not make the same mistake again and end up losing what we have left. It appears that we'll have little option but to accept national retailers into downtown, but I for one do not intend to get excited if they take over and exterminate the many local shops that enhanced downtown Greenville's charm.

I see your point, Skyliner, but if a local retailer can't survive in a more competitive retail market...then they weren't that great to begin with, were they? I am confident that the really good local retailers we have downtown - the unique ones that provide a lot of value and worth to customers - will have no trouble competing with national retailers. And other local retailers will, unfortunately, not make it. That's not OUR fault, though.

People seem so freaking upset about these stores closing, but honestly, how many of these stores did you guys frequent on a regular basis? How many were truly good stores that you absolutely loved? How many offered things you simply could not get elsewhere? The spaces will be filled, either due to better retail entering the downtown market or landowners lowering their rent rates. Based on some of the posts here, you would think that downtown Greenville is dead.

Edited January 25, 2007 by Greenville

[g-man430]

A lot of these stores have signs you can barely see and that are blocked by trees and stuff. No wonder they're closing. They need to have bigger signs and bigger stores like Mast General Store has. They could also have something unique for their sign to draw people in.

[g-man430]

I see your point, Skyliner, but if a local retailer can't survive in a more competitive retail market...then they weren't that great to begin with, were they? I am confident that the really good local retailers we have downtown - the unique ones that provide a lot of value and worth to customers - will have no trouble competing with national retailers. And other local retailers will, unfortunately, not make it. That's not OUR fault, though.

People seem so freaking upset about these stores closing, but honestly, how many of these stores did you guys frequent on a regular basis? How many were truly good stores that you absolutely loved? How many offered things you simply could not get elsewhere? The spaces will be filled, either due to better retail entering the downtown market or landowners lowering their rent rates. Based on some of the posts here, you would think that downtown Greenville is dead.

I can answer those. The only retailer I have ever gone to downtown is Mast General Store and the Map Shop. I've been to plenty of restaurants, but never any other retailers because they just don't appeal to my taste. I never loved any of the other stores, but only because I never went to them. I didn't know what they were like. You could buy any of the stuff they offered at Wal-Mart for cheaper than what they were selling them for, even if they weren't as good of quality. Just read my second signature for what I think about Greenville's vision. This includes downtown too.

Edited January 25, 2007 by g-man430

[RestedTraveler]

I will still continue to assert that, in my humble opinion, a healthy mix (or weave, would be more accurate) of national chains and local stores would be good. The national chains would draw people into downtown that might not otherwise come into downtown to shop. While there, their traffic and dollars would spill over to the lucky local stores that happen to be located in between the national chain stores.

[g-man430]

^^^I agree with that 100%.

[RestedTraveler]

...Just read my second signature for what I think about Greenville's vision. This includes downtown too.

Is that an actual quote of someone, or are you quoting yourself? The reason I ask is that it should read, "To understand Greenville's vision, you have to stop thinking logically." (just a suggestion)

[g-man430]

I'm quoting myself. Why would you want to look for a parking spot downtown to go shopping when you can go over to Woodruff Rd. and get a cat-bird seat. That's why downtown stores are suffering too.

[g-man430]

Do you guys think it will ever be possible for both parts of downtown to thrive? It seems like either the West End or North Main thrive and right now it's the West End. I've never seen both parts thrive before and that would definitely be nice to see. Hopefully, the Peacock and the Pinnacle (if that ever gets built) will help this happen.

[RestedTraveler]

Do you guys think it will ever be possible for both parts of downtown to thrive?

Absolutely! It's going to take some work and it's going to take more things along Main Street in the CBD to draw people into that part of downtown while others are still flocking to the West End for all of the reasons they do now. I'm more worried about whether there are enough people in the metro to sustain both parts of downtown as well as the Shops at Gridlock and the Magnolia Parking Lot Town Center. They can try to recreate downtown there all they like, but for my money, Downtown Greenville is still going to be where it's at.

[g-man430]

Shops at Gridlock and the Magnolia Parking Lot Town Center.

Don't forget about Sprawl-Ville, I mean Simpsonville.

[g-man430]

I can think of one thing that would really draw people downtown and could fit on the county square site. It's all in one word: IKEA.

[RestedTraveler]

I can think of one thing that would really draw people downtown and could fit on the county square site. It's all in one word: IKEA.

That's still the wrong part of downtown and is far too big...trust me, it's not what downtown needs. A Borders, on the other hand, located on North Main would be nearly what the doctor ordered. Perhaps a Kinko's, too. Maybe a movie theatre with a 4 houses with large screens and stadium seating. Things along this line is what I'm talkin' 'bout.

[g-man430]

^^^I was thinking about an IKEA in the middle with a Wal-Mart on the right and a K-Mart on the left.

Edited January 25, 2007 by g-man430