The State of Downtown Retail

[gman430]

Some good details on O-Ku and Indaco which will open early next year: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/greenville/2022/07/14/indigo-road-hospitality-expands-greenville-sc-o-ku-indaco-restaurants/10033021002/  

Edited July 14, 2022 by gman430

[gman430]

Looks like work has started on the former Brooks Brothers space. 

[Matt Lesman]

What has happened to downtown Greenville? We were downtown around Trio at 11pm tonight and I have never seen such a different crowd in my life. There were cars with bass blasting all down Main Street, fights in the road, screaming, etc.  It seems like Main St is now for only 25 and under and thugs 

[GVLer]

The new noise ordinance is not working. The cars are out of control. It sounds like a drag race every night. 

[PuppiesandKittens]

7 hours ago, Matt Lesman said:

What has happened to downtown Greenville? We were downtown around Trio at 11pm tonight and I have never seen such a different crowd in my life. There were cars with bass blasting all down Main Street, fights in the road, screaming, etc.  It seems like Main St is now for only 25 and under and thugs 

That must be only late at night.  During the day, it’s an upscale crowd; I went to Lululemon on a late Saturday afternoon and fit, attractive people flooded the place.

I was horrified by a crowd that I saw on a Saturday evening at Haywood Mall and I guess they come downtown after the mall closes.

 

[Horatio Nelson]

9 hours ago, Matt Lesman said:

What has happened to downtown Greenville? We were downtown around Trio at 11pm tonight and I have never seen such a different crowd in my life. There were cars with bass blasting all down Main Street, fights in the road, screaming, etc.  It seems like Main St is now for only 25 and under and thugs 

I was downtown at the exact same time at the exact same place, and I have no idea what you are talking about. There are a couple of bars in that area like Sip (which tell me if I'm crazy the clientele of that bar got a lot younger after the pandemic) so people tend to congregate. 

It hasn't really changed over the last ten years I've been downtown around that time (maybe more people). The nightlife of a city tends to be a different crowd than during the day.

I will agree about loud cars but I've never understood why people drive down mainstreet in the first place much less while reving their engines or playing loud music.

[PuppiesandKittens]

29 minutes ago, Horatio Nelson said:

I've never understood why people drive down mainstreet in the first place much less while reving their engines or playing loud music.

They’re trying to show off their incomes and IQs.

Downtown ought to hire its own security personnel, with authorization to ticket noise violators.

[vicupstate]

You see the noise ordinance signs everywhere, seems like the enforcement is lacking though.

[NewlyUpstate]

15 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

You see the noise ordinance signs everywhere, seems like the enforcement is lacking though.

Enforcement of the ordinance is the issue. Police need to do their job for the laws of the community to work.

[Matt Lesman]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:17 AM, Horatio Nelson said:

I was downtown at the exact same time at the exact same place, and I have no idea what you are talking about. There are a couple of bars in that area like Sip (which tell me if I'm crazy the clientele of that bar got a lot younger after the pandemic) so people tend to congregate. 

It hasn't really changed over the last ten years I've been downtown around that time (maybe more people). The nightlife of a city tends to be a different crowd than during the day.

I will agree about loud cars but I've never understood why people drive down mainstreet in the first place much less while reving their engines or playing loud music.

I think it is a mixture of Sip, Ink & Ivy, Vine, Society, DT’s, Rey’s, Cigar Lounge, etc all being within a 2 block radius of one another. I have lived downtown on Main St for over 10 years and have had my business located in several of the larger office towers downtown for about the same amount of time and I am telling you I have never seen the clientele that I have seen recently. It reminds me of the area around Falls Park that got so bad with the same type of people that they had to implement a curfew after 11pm.  Maybe the new restaurants (Scoundrel, Bricktops, etc) and the Kiyatec redevelopment will change the scenery some but I have never been more disturbed downtown. This is coming from someone that is downtown 300+ days/nights of the year and have been for many years.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Matt Lesman

[gman430]

Overreaction much? Not sure where you have been but it’s been like that downtown on Saturday nights during the Summer for at least the past fifteen years. It’s not like there are mass shootings and stabbings happening there. I’m sure I would see it on the local news if there was. Not sure what you want the city to do about the clientele issue also. Close down all the bars/dance clubs and have a curfew for anybody under 30 perhaps? Maybe even have a dress code for the CBD? Lol. 

Oh and you make it sound like Greenville is the only city like this. Get out more and you will see clearly it’s not. Go to Five Points in Columbia or downtown Charleston on any given Saturday night during the Summer and you will see the exact same thing. Sorry but Greenville isn’t small little Mayberry in a fairytale book anymore. Just because there are black people going to clubs downtown does not mean the sky is falling. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by gman430

[vicupstate]

6 hours ago, Matt Lesman said:

I think it is a mixture of Sip, Ink & Ivy, Vine, Society, DT’s, Rey’s, Cigar Lounge, etc all being within a 2 block radius of one another. I have lived downtown on Main St for over 10 years and have had my business located in several of the larger office towers downtown for about the same amount of time and I am telling you I have never seen the clientele that I have seen recently. It reminds me of the area around Falls Park that got so bad with the same type of people that they had to implement a curfew after 11pm.  Maybe the new restaurants (Scoundrel, Bricktops, etc) and the Kiyatec redevelopment will change the scenery some but I have never been more disturbed downtown. This is coming from someone that is downtown 300+ days/nights of the year and have been for many years.
 

 

 

 

 

What is it specifically that you are seeing that is disturbing, and different than in the past?

[PuppiesandKittens]

3 hours ago, gman430 said:

Just because there are black people going to clubs downtown does not mean the sky is falling. 

There's nothing whatsoever in the posts above that states or even implies that the bad crowd is African-American.  

The people riding up and down Main on their motorcycles and in their monster trucks are not African-American.

When I'm downtown, during the day, the crowd seems to be 95%+ white (and upscale white, other than the people on their motorcycles and in their monster trucks, who probably can't afford to buy anything anyway).

The crowd that I saw at Haywood Mall, carousing in the mall on Saturday night without buying much, was not African-American.

We're in the upstate of South Carolina.  The trashy demographic locally is not African-American.  Or any group "of color".  Except on their necks, and I don't believe that red counts as "of color".

Edited July 19, 2022 by PuppiesandKittens

[GvilleSC]

12 hours ago, Matt Lesman said:

I think it is a mixture of Sip, Ink & Ivy, Vine, Society, DT’s, Rey’s, Cigar Lounge, etc all being within a 2 block radius of one another. I have lived downtown on Main St for over 10 years and have had my business located in several of the larger office towers downtown for about the same amount of time and I am telling you I have never seen the clientele that I have seen recently. It reminds me of the area around Falls Park that got so bad with the same type of people that they had to implement a curfew after 11pm.  Maybe the new restaurants (Scoundrel, Bricktops, etc) and the Kiyatec redevelopment will change the scenery some but I have never been more disturbed downtown. This is coming from someone that is downtown 300+ days/nights of the year and have been for many years.
 

 

 

 

 

Matt - I find what you're saying to be confusing.

You've stated that you've never seen this clientele before, but the same type of people have previously been problematic at Falls Park? If your issue is with nighttime guests downtown, then I really don't think daytime-oriented businesses (Kiyatec) is going to make a difference. I also live downtown, but I've not seen the situation that you're describing. You should really consider contacting the City and the police department if you have a legitimate concern. In the past when an actual problem has existed, the City has seen to it being dealt with (Carolina Ale House, Falls Park loitering, etc). 

[GvilleSC]

3 hours ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

There's nothing whatsoever in the posts above that states or even implies that the bad crowd is African-American.  

The people riding up and down Main on their motorcycles and in their monster trucks are not African-American.

When I'm downtown, during the day, the crowd seems to be 95%+ white (and upscale white, other than the people on their motorcycles and in their monster trucks, who probably can't afford to buy anything anyway).

The crowd that I saw at Haywood Mall, carousing in the mall on Saturday night without buying much, was not African-American.

We're in the upstate of South Carolina.  The trashy demographic locally is not African-American.  Or any group "of color".  Except on their necks, and I don't believe that red counts as "of color".

I understand your point, but you're making your point quite poorly. Don't assume to understand someone's circumstances based on appearance, nor should anyone else based on a story without descriptions. A motorcycle or truck does not indicate one's ability to afford Lululemon, etc.

The place that I most often find noise issues are while dining at Jianna. The number of engines being revved at the entry to Falls Park is obnoxious during a given weekend evening.

[PuppiesandKittens]

6 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

I understand your point, but you're making your point quite poorly. Don't assume to understand someone's circumstances based on appearance, nor should anyone else based on a story without descriptions. A motorcycle or truck does not indicate one's ability to afford Lululemon, etc.

The place that I most often find noise issues are while dining at Jianna. The number of engines being revved at the entry to Falls Park is obnoxious during a given weekend evening.

The people with loud monster trucks and motorcycles with modified exhausts are low on the totem pole in terms of education and income.  In general.  They aren't shopping at Lululemon.  In general.  

When someone sees a motorcycle with a modified exhaust, with the driver or rider holding a J. McLaughlin bag as they cruise down Main, please share.

[GvilleSC]

4 minutes ago, PuppiesandKittens said:

The people with loud monster trucks and motorcycles with modified exhausts are low on the totem pole in terms of education and income.  In general.  They aren't shopping at Lululemon.  In general.  

When someone sees a motorcycle with a modified exhaust, with the driver or rider holding a J. McLaughlin bag as they cruise down Main, please share.

They don't need to shop at a preppy store to bust your profiling and stereotyping. They can just as easily drop multiple hundreds on a nice meal, or spend several thousand at the gem mine store (substitute any store). I know a lady who wears Lilly, but also loves to take her Hog (second vehicle) on our winding mountain roads during the summer. She isn't one to cruise Main Street, but she's also not the folks that you're relegating to a class below where you view yourself.

[PuppiesandKittens]

17 minutes ago, GvilleSC said:

They don't need to shop at a preppy store to bust your profiling and stereotyping. They can just as easily drop multiple hundreds on a nice meal, or spend several thousand at the gem mine store (substitute any store). I know a lady who wears Lilly, but also loves to take her Hog (second vehicle) on our winding mountain roads during the summer. She isn't one to cruise Main Street, but she's also not the folks that you're relegating to a class below where you view yourself.

There are certainly exceptions, but the loud bike and monster truck crowd is generally low-income and low-education.  Period.  And cruising down Main while revving their engines is trashy and offensive...and often illegal.  (I guess it's rude of me to call people trashy, but that's how I see it.)

There are plenty of people who are not high achievers educationally or financially who are perfectly upstanding, law-abiding and well-behaved citizens.  And there are some high achievers who are social miscreants.  But the loud bike and monster truck crowd is generally a subset of the low-income and low-education demographic, and I don't care for their behavior.  

Edited July 19, 2022 by PuppiesandKittens

[GVLer]

I agree. Someone who goes out of their way to be obnoxious and intentionally cause disruption is an ass....regardless of their income or education.

Is it too much to ask to drive down Main Street like a normal civilized human?

 

[gman430]

Loud exhausts and loud music coming from vehicles has been an issue downtown for a longgg time. Where have you all been?  It’s nothing new and shouldn’t be a surprise when you do hear it on a Saturday night. 

Speaking of noise, can something be done about all of the Bob Jones Bible thumpers that have megaphones downtown too? That’s violating the noise ordinance. We must repent. Jesus saves. Oh and get rid of the people with the saxophones and whatnot too. That’s also violating the noise ordinance. And leaf blowers, dogs barking, street cleaners, the Falls Park waterfall, Greenlink transit buses, the bells in the Main Street trees, etc. Anything that creates a noise I want banned. I want to be able to go downtown and hear complete silence. 
 

Anyways, this thread has gone off the rails.

Edited July 19, 2022 by gman430

[PuppiesandKittens]

53 minutes ago, gman430 said:

Loud exhausts and loud music coming from vehicles has been an issue downtown for a longgg time. Where have you all been?  It’s nothing new and shouldn’t be a surprise when you do hear it on a Saturday night. 

Speaking of noise, can something be done about all of the Bob Jones Bible thumpers that have megaphones downtown too? That’s violating the noise ordinance. We must repent. Jesus saves. Oh and get rid of the people with the saxophones and whatnot too. That’s also violating the noise ordinance. And leaf blowers, dogs barking, street cleaners, the Falls Park waterfall, Greenlink transit buses, the bells in the Main Street trees, etc. Anything they creates a noise I want banned. I want to be able to go downtown and hear complete silence. 
 

Anyways, this thread has gone off the rails.

Nobody is asking for complete silence downtown (or anywhere).

People are asking that Greenville's noise ordinance (which allows speech, music, leaf blowers, street cleaners, the Falls Park waterfall, buses, bells in trees, except above certain volumes at certain times) be followed.  That's it.

[Matt Lesman]

6 hours ago, gman430 said:

Loud exhausts and loud music coming from vehicles has been an issue downtown for a longgg time. Where have you all been?  It’s nothing new and shouldn’t be a surprise when you do hear it on a Saturday night. 

Speaking of noise, can something be done about all of the Bob Jones Bible thumpers that have megaphones downtown too? That’s violating the noise ordinance. We must repent. Jesus saves. Oh and get rid of the people with the saxophones and whatnot too. That’s also violating the noise ordinance. And leaf blowers, dogs barking, street cleaners, the Falls Park waterfall, Greenlink transit buses, the bells in the Main Street trees, etc. Anything that creates a noise I want banned. I want to be able to go downtown and hear complete silence. 
 

Anyways, this thread has gone off the rails.

I agree this thread did take a turn off the rails. I was not implying anything about noise as the major issue. As I mentioned, I live downtown and I can count at least 15 times over the last 3 months where I have had someone puke, urinate, put cigarettes out on the front door entrance, vandalized, found needles on the sidewalk, etc. I have contacted the police department at least half of those times with nothing done other than a “nightly patrol” for a few nights then it is back to same ol story.  And for those that do not know, just about two months ago there was a stabbing (yes a stabbing) at Cigar Lounge (above Reys). We were eating at Trio’s and watched it unfold, watched an ambulance come along with about 15 police cars. Do you think the media (newspaper, tv, etc) reported this? Absolutely not.  Just like I know first hand that the city council and county council have been told to not speak under any circumstance about the homeless situation downtown.  

[gman430]

I don’t think I have never seen soo many retail/restaurant spaces under construction for new tenants as I saw today. Great to see. The vacancy rate is definitely dropping fast. 
 

Cafe West: https://www.postandcourier.com/greenville/food/cafe-west-now-open-in-downtown-greenville-a-non-corporate-oasis/article_69785b9a-093f-11ed-b18c-53a53b25acae.html

Edited July 22, 2022 by gman430

[vicupstate]

Jack Brown's Beer and Burger for 19 Augusta St. 

[NewlyUpstate]

19 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

Jack Brown's Beer and Burger for 19 Augusta St. 

Burger places just keep coming    I wonder how Windy City is doing.. pictures look great, but I haven't tried it yet.  I've heard Social Burger in Camperdown is nothing special.