The State of Downtown Retail

[Greenville]

I've heard numerous locations and rumors on this. The ground floor of The Pinnacle, the corner ground floor of The Peacock, the ground level of the new development by city hall, the unbuilt phase of Riveplace, and also that his restaurant would open in a secret development that we have yet to hear about........

Is this a secret development you have heard about but "we" haven't?

[RestedTraveler]

Interesting! I did not expect to see that happen, especially since they were trying to sell all of their equipment and furniture shortly after they closed. I hope they have a more visible location this time around, as well as fresh ideas as to how to drive more people into their establishment. I'm pulling for them!

That's great news. With a more visible location, I have no doubt that they will be successful. I'm glad to hear that they are giving it another shot.

According to the latest from O-Cha, the new location will be in the West End. Look for more details soon and look for a grand re-opening after Christmas. Hopefully it won't be too cold outside for bubble tea.

[gs3]

Is this a secret development you have heard about but "we" haven't?

I know it is a secret....what the secret is, who knows?

[goodbye]

The strongest rumor less than a year ago was that he would be located on the ground floor of the Pinnacle on Main tower. I wonder if the negotiations have ever been taken to the proposed new hotel/residential tower at the Gateway site? There is a concept that includes a restaurant with that development, though I have not heard any serious details about it yet. Personally, I will be glad to see his restaurant anywhere in the CBD. It will become a popular place regardless of its location. The question is, what location would be most unique?

[GvilleSC]

The strongest rumor less than a year ago was that he would be located on the ground floor of the Pinnacle on Main tower. I wonder if the negotiations have ever been taken to the proposed new hotel/residential tower at the Gateway site? There is a concept that includes a restaurant with that development, though I have not heard any serious details about it yet. Personally, I will be glad to see his restaurant anywhere in the CBD. It will become a popular place regardless of its location. The question is, what location would be most unique?

I think most unique and most important for downtown growth is important. I wonder what the city is trying to do with their efforts...? Spur development off of Main, further into the West End, or on their old City Hall Plaza site?

[Greenville]

Interesting stuff about Tyler Florence's restaurant. I, too, am curious as to which location will be the winner. I would almost prefer it NOT be in the West End. On the ground floor of a nice downtown hotel (Peacock, Gateway site hotel, or a future hotel to be named later) makes perfect sense to me.

I would like for it to be off of Main somewhat, since I'm sure it will be a popular destination wherever it is. Can a single restaurant be a catalyst for development all by itself? If so, this could be it...

[gs3]

I would like for it to be off of Main somewhat, since I'm sure it will be a popular destination wherever it is. Can a single restaurant be a catalyst for development all by itself? If so, this could be it...

IMO, yes. Look at some of the redevelopments / new developments that have happened in certain cities due to a high profile chef (Wolfgang Puck, Emeril, Daniel Boulud, etc). Tyler Florence is certainly in that league. Some of the dollars brought into these restaurants are equal to a large department store, so yes, they are definitely anchors.

I agree with you and do not want to see this end up in West End. West End is doing great and standing on its own feet now. I'd like to see this restaurant go at the Gateway site.....talk about an entrance to downtown.....a celebrity chef's restaurant!

[whitehourseview]

IMO, yes. Look at some of the redevelopments / new developments that have happened in certain cities due to a high profile chef (Wolfgang Puck, Emeril, Daniel Boulud, etc). Tyler Florence is certainly in that league. Some of the dollars brought into these restaurants are equal to a large department store, so yes, they are definitely anchors.

I agree with you and do not want to see this end up in West End. West End is doing great and standing on its own feet now. I'd like to see this restaurant go at the Gateway site.....talk about an entrance to downtown.....a celebrity chef's restaurant!

Not to be a downer, but will people cross multi lanes of traffic, after walking from or towards Main street, for a restaurant, no matter the quality?

I still would like to see what could fit and be successful on that site.

[Greenville]

Not to be a downer, but will people cross multi lanes of traffic, after walking from or towards Main street, for a restaurant, no matter the quality?

I still would like to see what could fit and be successful on that site.

For Tyler Florence's restaurant, I think they would walk a few blocks out of the way and cross multiple lanes of traffic. As gsupstate said, that kind of attraction is a real draw and would hopefully cause planners to create a pedestrian-friendly environment between Main Street and the Gateway site. There has also been talk of a pedestrian bridge to provide better access to the Gateway site development.

[GvilleSC]

I definitely like the idea of it being off Main Street and not in the West End.

The Peacock site would be great to create more traffic down McBee.

Also, I think it could do great things on Broad Street as a part of the City Hall Plaza site. Not on Main, but at the far end of the site. Consequently it'd get people down Broad and encourage people to also check out the stuff at Poinsett Corners, which I'd say a lot of people don't even know about. If successful in that, ideally it would encourage the development of the site at the corner of Broad and River Streets, which would draw people both up the Riverwalk and down Broad Street.

[gs3]

The Gateway site will need the cities help and guidance to become pedestrian friendly for sure. My thought, whatever goes there must be dynamic to make it. A Tyler Florence restaurant in the lobby of a W Hotel......that would be dynamic and do well, vs. a Ruby Tuesday in the lobby of a Holiday Inn. Note: I don't for one second believe Greenville is anywhere near large enough for a W Hotel, just using that brand to make a point.

Tyler Florence would pull people and would be successful in ANY location.

[Greenville]

The Gateway site will need the cities help and guidance to become pedestrian friendly for sure. My thought, whatever goes there must be dynamic to make it. A Tyler Florence restaurant in the lobby of a W Hotel......that would be dynamic and do well, vs. a Ruby Tuesday in the lobby of a Holiday Inn. Note: I don't for one second believe Greenville is anywhere near large enough for a W Hotel, just using that brand to make a point.

Tyler Florence would pull people and would be successful in ANY location.

I agree that we probably aren't ready for a W hotel, but why not a Sheraton, Doubletree, Hilton, or Wyndham hotel on the Gateway site?

[BookEnder]

According to the latest from O-Cha, the new location will be in the West End. Look for more details soon and look for a grand re-opening after Christmas. Hopefully it won't be too cold outside for bubble tea.

My wife and I were walking downtown last night. O-Cha had an "Opening Soon" sign in a vacant space of the lower left corner of the Hampton Inn (facing the fountain along the river).

[GvilleSC]

My wife and I were walking downtown last night. O-Cha had an "Opening Soon" sign in a vacant space of the lower left corner of the Hampton Inn (facing the fountain along the river).

That location will have a great view! Do you all think they'll do better at this location?? I'm excited about them reopening, especially at Riverplace!

[RestedTraveler]

My wife and I were walking downtown last night. O-Cha had an "Opening Soon" sign in a vacant space of the lower left corner of the Hampton Inn (facing the fountain along the river).

This is the spot where that candy store never quite got off of the ground, isn't it?

That location will have a great view! Do you all think they'll do better at this location?? I'm excited about them reopening, especially at Riverplace!

If this is the location I think it is, then I feel that they'll do MUCH better here. The visibility they'll have in this area alone - especially during the warm months when parents have their kids down at the fountain to cool off and want to cool off with a nice bubble tea or slush themselves. This will work out quite well for O-Cha, I have no doubt.

[BookEnder]

If this is the location I think it is, then I feel that they'll do MUCH better here. The visibility they'll have in this area alone - especially during the warm months when parents have their kids down at the fountain to cool off and want to cool off with a nice bubble tea or slush themselves. This will work out quite well for O-Cha, I have no doubt.

[RestedTraveler]

There was no sign of any sign when I went by there Saturday evening as well. Was the sign in the storefront on the left or the one on the right? It looks as though some other confectionary/ice cream type store is going in the one on the right, judging by the shelving and refrigerated case. As for the storefront on the left, it appears that some plumbing work has begun there, so I suspect that's the one where the O-Cha sign was?

[BookEnder]

There was no sign of any sign when I went by there Saturday evening as well. Was the sign in the storefront on the left or the one on the right? It looks as though some other confectionary/ice cream type store is going in the one on the right, judging by the shelving and refrigerated case. As for the storefront on the left, it appears that some plumbing work has begun there, so I suspect that's the one where the O-Cha sign was?

It was the one on the left (facing Hampton Inn from the river). The O-Cha sign was propted up in the window when we went by on Thursday but it was gone on Saturday afternoon.

[gs3]

FRESH IDEA ALERT!!!!

Lynn Strong gallery had a snow machine in the second floor window of the building today blowing snow over the sidewalk on Main. With the cloudy, cold weather today (the type of weather that hugs you), it was incredible to walk down Main and have this snow coming down on you in front of Lynn Strong and OP Taylors. Along with the large nutcrackers standing guard, and the fresh wreaths and garland, it was pricture perfect (didn't have my camera). BIG KUDOS to Lynn Strong. Kids and adults were having a blast, and the smiles were simply infectious. That good old Greenville quality of life.....simple pleasures.....always makes you smile!

What if......they expanded on this idea (either individual store owners or the city) and every single storefront put a snow machine in their second floor window next year? Snow would be drifting down among the beautiful Main Street trees the entire length.

With the European Christmas Village, Santa's sled, snow machines, the lights, the fresh trees and garland, can Main Street get any more perfect as the ultimate holiday location????

[goodbye]

FRESH IDEA ALERT!!!!

..With the European Christmas Village, Santa's sled, snow machines, the lights, the fresh trees and garland, can Main Street get any more perfect as the ultimate holiday location????

Love the unique idea! Add an ice skating rink and expand the village and then downtown Greenville will be the ultimate Christmas destination in the South. Here is an idea, perhaps ideal for space along the river to the west... A permanent village designed to replicate authentic European architecture. The village would be an attraction year-round as a cultural center highlighting various nations who are represented locally, but in the winter it could be transformed into the most incredible holiday village unlike any in the region, state, or even nation. I am thinking about something straight out of a book, something quite fanciful, yet completely authentic. Anyone think it could work here in Greenville?

[gvegascple]

Love the unique idea! Add an ice skating rink and expand the village and then downtown Greenville will be the ultimate Christmas destination in the South. Here is an idea, perhaps ideal for space along the river to the west... A permanent village designed to replicate authentic European architecture. The village would be an attraction year-round as a cultural center highlighting various nations who are represented locally, but in the winter it could be transformed into the most incredible holiday village unlike any in the region, state, or even nation. I am thinking about something straight out of a book, something quite fanciful, yet completely authentic. Anyone think it could work here in Greenville?

I like most of this idea save for the authentic european part. Does not Helen GA already do this? I do like the nod to Bergamo and do also like the prospect of making the Piazza larger and more welcoming and the ice rink is another great idea (as long as its not 80 degrees in December). Expanding the number of snow machines sounds great too. I also hope the Christmas festival continues to grow larger every year but hope that it grows in a classy way. Perhaps how our other festivals have grown with inviting more vendors, including outdoor free concerts, maybe expand the tree decorating contests and throw in a gingerbread house contest like held at the Biltmore. I think the old world architecture would look odd against our current architecture and make Greenville look too schticky.

Edited December 16, 2007 by gvegascple

[linkerjpatrick]

I like most of this idea save for the authentic european part. Does not Helen GA already do this?

Yes, any attempt to create "an authentic" village anywhere tends to always border on the cheesy. The projects that probably created the true Greenville look are the Peace Center and West End Field.

[gs3]

Here is an idea, perhaps ideal for space along the river to the west... A permanent village designed to replicate authentic European architecture. The village would be an attraction year-round as a cultural center highlighting various nations who are represented locally, but in the winter it could be transformed into the most incredible holiday village unlike any in the region, state, or even nation. I am thinking about something straight out of a book, something quite fanciful, yet completely authentic. Anyone think it could work here in Greenville?

I'm sure it would work.

Greenville has enough nations represented with our international business climate. A true international village. Maybe somewhere in conjunction with the new park planned to be across from Kroc Center......the Reedy River area could continue it's climb on the tourism ladder.....

[gs3]

Healthy Lounge (oxygen bar) is under construction and DFC has replaced Pulze.

[gvegascple]

I'm sure it would work.

Greenville has enough nations represented with our international business climate. A true international village. Maybe somewhere in conjunction with the new park planned to be across from Kroc Center......the Reedy River area could continue it's climb on the tourism ladder.....

I think that a European village designed to pull in Christmas tourism has some very major obstacles to overcome beyond just the initial, aesthetic, Bush Gardens Cheese factor. First of all, most do not travel to a new location for Christmas, they either stay where they are, or visit family, period. The second hurdle is how most folks associate winter climate with the terms European Christmas Village and it was 80 degrees the other days folks. We are going to have a hard enough time keeping the dang ice rink from turning to mush. 99.5% of the year, this Alpine European Village is going to feel more like it belongs in 6 flags than downtown. I doubt even Las Vegas could pull off such a thing with unlimited resources. It just comes across as weird.

I'd really like for city planners to focus on the GO Greenville idea where we are the gateway and home base for those looking to enjoy the mountains and nearby lakes whether it be actively (golf, cycling, hiking, sailing, fishing, etc) or passivly (sightseeing, fine dining, plays, concerts, picnics, zoo,etc). Then, when they head back to one of our wonderful hotels, they are charmed by our friendly, hospitable, and varied citizens and surprised by our burgeoning cultural and culinary centers. I'd also like to see Greenville push to take the title of "Most Hospitable City in the Nation" from Charleston as I feel we now surpass Charleston in that regard. Now that would be a very nice addition to Greenville's tag line.

Edited December 16, 2007 by gvegascple