The State of Downtown Retail

[whitehourseview]

However, the city must try to subsidize or support local business to keep Greenville's local flavor. I doubt that any of the artists on artist's row in the west end have solid business plans, nor could they afford the rents that shopkeepers on Main St must have to pay. They city has realized how important they are to the city's future and have responded accordingly to support them. I do my best to spend some of my money on local shops as much as possible, even if its something small. I have no doubt that most fellow UPers here do likewise. I hope the City understands the Value of our Edens, Venti's, Uptown Downtown, etc. Has anyone SEEN how many empty store fronts and "for lease" signs that pepper downtown main street today? It is a symptom that must not be ignored.

How do you propose the city subsidize local businesses? What criteria do you recommend? That's a fairly radical step.

[RestedTraveler]

Most of the stores that have closed their doors, were closing too early. How can a retail store close at 6:00 on a weekday when people work till 5-6:00.

I have to agree 100% with this. I am very rarely off of work before 6:00pm. I'm lucky if I can make it to a G-Drive game that starts at 7:00pm, much less to a store downtown before it closes. While I can certainly understand and relate to what KristenL cited about the "groups" and shoplifting issues, I also feel that an organized effort on the part of downtown merchants to extend their hours and publicize the extended hours would be successful. If shoplifting and other issues are a problem during the evening hours, then this is really an area where the city police department could step up and offer more foot patrols downtown from 6:00pm - 10:00pm. My 2 cents...take it for what it's worth.

As for national chains, I've long asserted that a healthy mix of local stores with a few national chains intermingled here and there (destination-type chains such as Borders, Apple, Crate & Barrell, etc., specifically) would bolster downtown. People that might not otherwise shop downtown would go into town for these "destination" retail places and their sales dollars would no-doubt spill over into the local shops and restaurants while they are at it.

Of course, this all assumes a health economy.

[RestedTraveler]

Regarding business plans, I agree that if your plan is ill conceived, it is likely that you will fail. However, the city must try to subsidize or support local business to keep Greenville's local flavor.

I would tend to agree with whitehourseview that it's quite radical to expect a city to subsidize local business...and I'm about as liberal as they come. Perhaps your words were not well chosen there? Yes, the city has provided support to the artist community in hopes that it will begin to flourish in Greenville as it has in other cities in the south.

Overall, I think the city of Greenville has done what it can to provide an exceptional business climate in downtown to foster that adventureous entrepreneurial spirit for both retailers and restaurants...and as I understand it, the city is working equally as hard to entice national retailers to entertain specific locations downtown. The city certainly seems to have a plan here - it's the merchants themselves that I do not see banding together in any formal way ... yet. It's a matter of time.

[gvegascple]

I would tend to agree with whitehourseview that it's quite radical to expect a city to subsidize local business...and I'm about as liberal as they come. Perhaps your words were not well chosen there? Yes, the city has provided support to the artist community in hopes that it will begin to flourish in Greenville as it has in other cities in the south.

Overall, I think the city of Greenville has done what it can to provide an exceptional business climate in downtown to foster that adventureous entrepreneurial spirit for both retailers and restaurants...and as I understand it, the city is working equally as hard to entice national retailers to entertain specific locations downtown. The city certainly seems to have a plan here - it's the merchants themselves that I do not see banding together in any formal way ... yet. It's a matter of time.

Subsidize may not have been the best choice of words, perhaps creatively and actively support may be a better way to do state it. More police presence is a way the city could spend more which would allow for a safer evening shopping environment. We have already taken steps reducing 4 Main St lanes down to 2 to slow traffic and encourage pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. There has been much talk about parking solutions, etc. Without actually handing the store a check, there are ways that the city can spend money to assist in ensuring a higher success rate. The big problem with national retailers like the Gap is that they can afford a very high rent. This leads to everyone raising their leases and soon no one but national stores can afford to stay. They show up, rents go up, then systematically local stores are replaced by national retail chains. I hope that there is some way to safeguard against that phenomenon here in Greenville.

[breed]

Subsidize may not have been the best choice of words, perhaps creatively and actively support may be a better way to do state it. More police presence is a way the city could spend more which would allow for a safer evening shopping environment. We have already taken steps reducing 4 Main St lanes down to 2 to slow traffic and encourage pedestrian friendly thoroughfares. There has been much talk about parking solutions, etc. Without actually handing the store a check, there are ways that the city can spend money to assist in ensuring a higher success rate. The big problem with national retailers like the Gap is that they can afford a very high rent. This leads to everyone raising their leases and soon no one but national stores can afford to stay. They show up, rents go up, then systematically local stores are replaced by national retail chains. I hope that there is some way to safeguard against that phenomenon here in Greenville.

The nationals are coming... it's a matter of when, not if. When the nationals come, they will be paying market-high rents and locals that can't keep up will be pushed out. A couple things that can be done to help ease the transition.

1. Parking

Stop with the free parking on Main Street. It artificially caps where retail can be located and the number of daytime visitors downtown can handle. By having viable retail space on and off Main, pricing tiers can begin to be established. The locals that are struggling will have a place to re-locate and stay in business.

2. Require retail space

If you've ever walked on Main in front of the Greenville News building or even the office space next to the Hyatt, the dead space is not conducive to promoting pedestrian activity. Perhaps we should require new developments to have some sort of retail component, even if it is only token space oriented toward the street (i.e., not occupying the entire first floor.) Maybe requiring it on streets that are intended to become pedstrian corridors comparable to Main Street. This would add to the retail space on the market, providing downward pressure on asking rates.

3. Affordable housing

If there is anything that deserves some sort of subsidy, it is workforce housing. Greenville isn't like most cities its size, we have no major univerisy presence in our downtown. As a result, we are missing the critical mass that comes with that (population size, affinity for mass transit, 24-hour life, etc.) Helping developers make the numbers work when developing workforce housing will help with the critical mass issue and another issue experienced by local retailers: the availability of quality workforce. It is an issue now and it's only going to get worse.

4. Local retailer liaison

Providing an official avenue for local retailers to communicate with the city will not only improve relations between the city and the local retailers, but to improve relations among local retailers as well. One of the advantages of being a local retailer should be better access to local decision-makers.

[goodbye]

1. Parking...

Personally, I disagree with the idea of removing the abundance of free parking on Main Street and every other street in downtown. I hate paying at parking meters (even completely avoid them if possible), but don't mind paying the extremely small fee to park in one of many garages just off of Main Street. I usually recommend that my visiting friends and family park in the Richardson Street Garage, since it is literally a few steps from Main and easily accessible via the Piazza Bergamo. With the ease and affordability, plus the fact that there is plenty of available parking in some of these garages during the day, I see no reason to cut the free spaces. If anything, I say the City should add a new public garage in the West End, or at least begin the expansion of the one under RiverPlace.

2. Require retail space...

This may be a requirement already. At the very least, I believe the City is totally aware of the need for street-level retail in new developments along Main Street and elsewhere downtown. There are certainly places on side streets where this has regretfully not been enforced more recently, but on Main I can't recall anything developed/redeveloped very recently which has neglected the street.

3. Affordable housing...

I agree to a certain extent, although I believe that some of the unique quality of life found in Greenville as opposed to cities with major downtown universities can be attributed to the calmer, less "wild" atmosphere here. We have discussed the need for affordable housing in other threads, and the City is doing its part to help provide more options in areas where it is most feasible at this time (West End, Hampton-Pinkney, Overbrook, Arcadia, Viola, etc...), and others are on the way as old neglected neighborhoods are experiencing rebirth.

[goodbye]

...the calmer, less "wild" atmosphere...

Just to clarify, our downtown is still very much alive everyday and into the night, but I was referring to the "wild college kids drinking party" atmosphere found in most college towns. This place seems more "sophisticated" and somewhat more "mature" to me, yet very family friendly, which is likely a result of there not being a major university in downtown. I for one enjoy that. Edited May 15, 2008 by Skyliner

[vicupstate]

The nationals are coming... it's a matter of when, not if. When the nationals come, they will be paying market-high rents and locals that can't keep up will be pushed out. A couple things that can be done to help ease the transition.

1. Parking

Stop with the free parking on Main Street. It artificially caps where retail can be located and the number of daytime visitors downtown can handle. By having viable retail space on and off Main, pricing tiers can begin to be established. The locals that are struggling will have a place to re-locate and stay in business.

2. Require retail space

If you've ever walked on Main in front of the Greenville News building or even the office space next to the Hyatt, the dead space is not conducive to promoting pedestrian activity. Perhaps we should require new developments to have some sort of retail component, even if it is only token space oriented toward the street (i.e., not occupying the entire first floor.) Maybe requiring it on streets that are intended to become pedstrian corridors comparable to Main Street. This would add to the retail space on the market, providing downward pressure on asking rates.

3. Affordable housing

If there is anything that deserves some sort of subsidy, it is workforce housing. Greenville isn't like most cities its size, we have no major univerisy presence in our downtown. As a result, we are missing the critical mass that comes with that (population size, affinity for mass transit, 24-hour life, etc.) Helping developers make the numbers work when developing workforce housing will help with the critical mass issue and another issue experienced by local retailers: the availability of quality workforce. It is an issue now and it's only going to get worse.

4. Local retailer liaison

Providing an official avenue for local retailers to communicate with the city will not only improve relations between the city and the local retailers, but to improve relations among local retailers as well. One of the advantages of being a local retailer should be better access to local decision-makers.

I believe #2 is already part of the city's ordinances. Adding meters to Main St. woul dbe killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Parking IS regulated and timed, it just isn't costly, which has kept DT competitive with the suburbs, IMO.

[mallguy]

I'd say that better zoning would help downtown (retail and everything else) flourish: office buildings above a certain amount of square feet should be banned from suburbia.

Until the 1960s or 1970s, basically all office space was downtown. Every office worker, more or less, worked downtown, and so most people with white-collar jobs were thus downtown, ready to spend money on retail and restaurants. Since large department stores were also downtown, and there wasn't much else in the way of anchor-type retail in that era, downtown retail flourished.

Once office jobs shifted to suburbia, the mass of office workers and their dollars also shifted to the suburbs, and that, combined with the loss of retail anchors to suburban malls, made downtown a dead zone for a long time. Now, at most 40% of Greenville's office space is downtown- probably less since the development of those office parks along Woodruff Road.

So shift office jobs back downtown, such as by prohibiting office buildings above say 150,000 square feet from being built in the suburbs, and demand for downtown retail will increase, especially if the city and private developers lure anchor retail back downtown.

I was in White Plains, NY on Tuesday and there are several malls downtown plus plenty of office space; the place is thriving.

[RestedTraveler]

The nationals are coming... it's a matter of when, not if. When the nationals come, they will be paying market-high rents and locals that can't keep up will be pushed out. A couple things that can be done to help ease the transition.

1. Parking

Stop with the free parking on Main Street. It artificially caps where retail can be located and the number of daytime visitors downtown can handle. By having viable retail space on and off Main, pricing tiers can begin to be established. The locals that are struggling will have a place to re-locate and stay in business.

I was certain that people would jump on this one when I first read it, but I think I understand what breed is saying here. He's asserting this as an option to help slow down what could be a rapid over-run of Main Street by national chain retailers, if I'm right. Perhaps he could elaborate more on this topic? I would tend to agree that the free on-street parking is what keeps many coming downtown and to start forcing people to pay would likely do more harm than good, with respect to the flow of dollars into the pockets of our local merchants.

[linkerjpatrick]

I was certain that people would jump on this one when I first read it, but I think I understand what breed is saying here. He's asserting this as an option to help slow down what could be a rapid over-run of Main Street by national chain retailers, if I'm right. Perhaps he could elaborate more on this topic? I would tend to agree that the free on-street parking is what keeps many coming downtown and to start forcing people to pay would likely do more harm than good, with respect to the flow of dollars into the pockets of our local merchants.

I don't think the issue is the payment but rather two other things;

1.) Method of payment - As far as I know they only take cash and I've become so assustomed to the credit cards and or check cards or my schedule is too haphazard to get a monthly pass. I'd rather just walk from my office on Cleveland Street on a nice day that have to deal with a garage, rainy or cold winter days are another issue.

2.) Safety - I know many people who would rather drive around looking for a street level parking space than park in a garage because they are afraid of getting attacked or robbed in a garage.

[GvilleSC]

If national retailers do eventually overrun downtown, yes the local merchants probably will move out. It's also possible that this will expand downtown. Maybe the North End or the area around Heritage Green would become a 'safe haven' for local merchants, therefore multiplying the options for entertainment or shopping in the CBD. I would doubt that local merchants would be squeezed out entirely of downtown. I see them simply relocating. Maybe Main would keep the high rents and a parallel or perpendicular street would become an alternative?

[linkerjpatrick]

If national retailers do eventually overrun downtown, yes the local merchants probably will move out. It's also possible that this will expand downtown. Maybe the North End or the area around Heritage Green would become a 'safe haven' for local merchants, therefore multiplying the options for entertainment or shopping in the CBD.

Wow, that really make local merchants sound like a bunch of losers who can't survive anywhere else appart from a "protected zone." If that's the case then you have a false economy or sorts Downtown however as a lot of businesses that have survived for years when national merchants were down here, moved out and will more than likely return in some form or another. If a company has a good business plan, product that has consumer demand or can make consumers think they need. The businesses that have survived and thrived have what I perceive as one critial asset. A loyal customer base, dependable name, etc.

I realize art related businesses can be tough because the product is created based on the creators values and not nessisarily customer demand per se.

[breed]

Quote by Skyliner

Personally, I disagree with the idea of removing the abundance of free parking on Main Street and every other street in downtown. I hate paying at parking meters (even completely avoid them if possible), but don't mind paying the extremely small fee to park in one of many garages just off of Main Street.I usually recommend that my visiting friends and family park in the Richardson Street Garage, since it is literally a few steps from Main and easily accessible via the Piazza Bergamo. With the ease and affordability, plus the fact that there is plenty of available parking in some of these garages during the day, I see no reason to cut the free spaces. If anything, I say the City should add a new public garage in the West End, or at least begin the expansion of the one under RiverPlace.

There isn't an abundance. If anything, there's a shortage. Try finding a free spot in the middle of the afternoon. In the mean time, the parking garages around the city are empty during the day. There is something very wrong with that picture. Why have parking garages if we aren't going to use them? I would recommend walking through the Richardson Street garage at 3pm on a Friday... and then at 7pm on a Friday. The difference is astounding. Adding another parking garage isn't going to make a difference. Personally, I park at county square when going to the West End.

Quote by Skyliner

Require Retail Space

This may be a requirement already. At the very least, I believe the City is totally aware of the need for street-level retail in new developments along Main Street and elsewhere downtown.

That would be news to me. I do know that they are strongly in favor of keeping pedestrian activity high.

Quote by Skyliner

Affordable housing

I agree to a certain extent, although I believe that some of the unique quality of life found in Greenville as opposed to cities with major downtown universities can be attributed to the calmer, less "wild" atmosphere here. We have discussed the need for affordable housing in other threads, and the City is doing its part to help provide more options in areas where it is most feasible at this time (West End, Hampton-Pinkney, Overbrook, Arcadia, Viola, etc...), and others are on the way as old neglected neighborhoods are experiencing rebirth.

Just to clarify, our downtown is still very much alive everyday and into the night, but I was referring to the "wild college kids drinking party" atmosphere found in most college towns. This place seems more "sophisticated" and somewhat more "mature" to me, yet very family friendly, which is likely a result of there not being a major university in downtown. I for one enjoy that.

The main point is that with a student population of 5,000 added to the heart of downtown, retail diversity becomes a non-issue (as does the difficult economics of mass transit and white-collar recruitment.) In the absence of that, we need some other way to get people downtown. Workforce housing is one way to accomplish that.

Regarding the college town concern. I don't think university presence immediately results in "wild college town" atmosphere. How does USC in Columbia compare? That might be a good example.

Quote by vicupstate

I believe #2 is already part of the city's ordinances. Adding meters to Main St. woul dbe killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Parking IS regulated and timed, it just isn't costly, which has kept DT competitive with the suburbs, IMO.

I don't think retailers are competing with the suburbs well. If they were, there'd be a considerable amount of growth among retailers of "stuff." Restaurants are competing with the suburbs, but that's a function of office employment, which has little to do with the pricing structure of parking.

It's interesting that you bring up the suburbs. We seem to have this mentality that it is our right to park directly in front of our destination. That is a decidely suburban notion. We are a city, we should act like it. People should be getting out of their cars and walking a block or two. I wonder how many people don't even know that great places like Luna Rosa and Addy's even exist... simply because they've never seen them.

Quote by RestedTraveler

I was certain that people would jump on this one when I first read it, but I think I understand what breed is saying here. He's asserting this as an option to help slow down what could be a rapid over-run of Main Street by national chain retailers, if I'm right. Perhaps he could elaborate more on this topic? I would tend to agree that the free on-street parking is what keeps many coming downtown and to start forcing people to pay would likely do more harm than good, with respect to the flow of dollars into the pockets of our local merchants.

In order for local retailers to survive the coming of national retailers, we need diversity in retail space. The best space in the best locations will go to those willing to pay the most for it... a lower tier of space will go to local retailers that are successful, but can't handle the ultra-high rents... and then a third tier would operate a bit more on the fringe for retailers that are struggling, or for local retailers that are in a start-up phase.

Right now, by limiting parking (and therefore limiting retail) to Main Street, we are eliminating the ability to have cheaper retail space operate near higher-end space.

When the national retailers come to downtown, they will do so because they believe it is the best location for them to do business. As a result, they will be paying best-in-market rents for the space... i.e., over $30 per square foot... what rents on Woodruff are approaching. For many downtown retailers, that is just about double what they are currently paying. Some might be able to see the increased traffic to be successful, but that would probably be the exception rather than the rule.

I think an ideal solution would be to make pricing for all parking identical, and then allow retailers to comp garage parking.

Quote by GvilleSC

If national retailers do eventually overrun downtown, yes the local merchants probably will move out. It's also possible that this will expand downtown. Maybe the North End or the area around Heritage Green would become a 'safe haven' for local merchants, therefore multiplying the options for entertainment or shopping in the CBD. I would doubt that local merchants would be squeezed out entirely of downtown. I see them simply relocating. Maybe Main would keep the high rents and a parallel or perpendicular street would become an alternative?

If they relocate, the most obvious location would be one off-Main so that they can benefit from the numbers of people that the chains would be bringing in. Ironically, if the current parking pricing structure remains in place, we will be subsidizing national retailers by providing free parking for them while the one-off Main Street retailer (the relocated locals) would have to rely more on parking garage clientele.

[whitehourseview]

Just to clarify, our downtown is still very much alive everyday and into the night, but I was referring to the "wild college kids drinking party" atmosphere found in most college towns. This place seems more "sophisticated" and somewhat more "mature" to me, yet very family friendly, which is likely a result of there not being a major university in downtown. I for one enjoy that.

The main point is that with a student population of 5,000 added to the heart of downtown, retail diversity becomes a non-issue (as does the difficult economics of mass transit and white-collar recruitment.) In the absence of that, we need some other way to get people downtown. Workforce housing is one way to accomplish that.

Regarding the college town concern. I don't think university presence immediately results in "wild college town" atmosphere. How does USC in Columbia compare? That might be a good example.

Downtown Greenville has, of course, previously been a college town. Furman, the Baptist Women's College, Chicora, and the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary have all had their main campuses in Greenville's downtown, with Furman and the Women's college merging and moving northward nearly 50 years ago.

Columbia's Five Points is a bit infamous for the rowdiness of the college crowd, not really a place for anyone older than 25. The Vista has been developed, in many ways, for people to move on to after they graduate.

It's probably unrealistic for any main campus of any present or future school to be added to Greenville's downtown, due to space and infrastructure needs on a campus. Furman moved out of a thriving downtown at the time (though the decline was on the horizon as the mill system broke down and suburb began to rise), because they simply needed the space. Hard to argue that was a bad move for them. And when Bob Jones U. moved to Greenville, their present campus on Wade Hampton was farm land, a bit out from downtown.

If the city can have a role, or even better the Chamber of Commerce, looking at cities and towns like Asheville, Hendersonville, Black Mountain, etc in the region that have a lot of local businesses in their downtown's would be worth investigating. Seeing how those businesses have thrived in many cases, and in Asheville's case especially, had a nice balance of services and retailers that the local population needs is important in seeing where the city should go from here.

[vicupstate]

Quote by vicupstate

I believe #2 is already part of the city's ordinances. Adding meters to Main St. woul dbe killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Parking IS regulated and timed, it just isn't costly, which has kept DT competitive with the suburbs, IMO.

I don't think retailers are competing with the suburbs well. If they were, there'd be a considerable amount of growth among retailers of "stuff." Restaurants are competing with the suburbs, but that's a function of office employment, which has little to do with the pricing structure of parking.

It's interesting that you bring up the suburbs. We seem to have this mentality that it is our right to park directly in front of our destination. That is a decidely suburban notion. We are a city, we should act like it. People should be getting out of their cars and walking a block or two. I wonder how many people don't even know that great places like Luna Rosa and Addy's even exist... simply because they've never seen them.

Finding a free space DT in the afternoon is not overly difficult in my experience, IF you realize that the spaces on the side streets are the ones to look for, NOT Main St. proper.

The walking is not the problem. The pain in the neck ordeal of having enough quarters in order to park is. Having to deal with that would put DT at a disadvantage to other (suburban) options. Columbia is a perfect example of this. Parking is free in the Vista and Five Points and they both thrive. Parking meters are used DT, and the retail has dried up. Same thing for DT Jacksonville BTW.

However, I do agree with your basic premise, which is that national retailers will push out local merchants. This happened in Charleston's King Street district and is happening again in the Upper King Street area.

The only solution is for the local merchants to BUY there building before the area get s TOO popular and pricey.

[linkerjpatrick]

Finding a free space DT in the afternoon is not overly difficult in my experience, IF you realize that the spaces on the side streets are the ones to look for, NOT Main St. proper.

Parking on side streets is for losers! He who dies with his car parked on Main Street wins! It's like the traffic version of a cakewalk!

I know that sounds silly but let's be honest. One does get a satisfaction from finding the Main Street parking space and staying in it the full hour.

One question however. Why is Main Street so sacred? Yeah it may have been the first street at one time and it looks cool on a business card but other than tradition what makes it so special? Why can't McBee, E. North, Washington, etc. be more Main Streety? Yeah, you may be saying, but it's MAIN Street, we in name yes. At one time it was the main route through town but as we all know you don't get on Main Street to get from point A to point B anymore. We now get on Main Street to cruise be it "legal" or not. I'm not talking about consant repeating loops but it is nice to take a drive down Main Street and to claim a Main Street spot. I actually find Falls Street to be an easier drive in addtion to the official bypasses of Church and Acadamy and Richardson is not too bad either.

[GvilleSC]

Wow, that really make local merchants sound like a bunch of losers who can't survive anywhere else appart from a "protected zone." If that's the case then you have a false economy or sorts Downtown however as a lot of businesses that have survived for years when national merchants were down here, moved out and will more than likely return in some form or another. If a company has a good business plan, product that has consumer demand or can make consumers think they need. The businesses that have survived and thrived have what I perceive as one critial asset. A loyal customer base, dependable name, etc.

I realize art related businesses can be tough because the product is created based on the creators values and not nessisarily customer demand per se.

Are you kidding? Maybe someone peed in your coffee, but that's not at all what I'm saying nor do I remotely get that feeling from reading back over my post.

"Protected Zone" is not what was being implied in my comment. They don't need to go to a designated area, but more than likely they would move off of Main Street or probably past Beattie Place or the baseball stadium if they wanted a Main St address. When I said 'safe-haven' I was referring to an area of downtown that has not had a renaissance and therefore somewhat safe from the immediate placement of national retailers. TODAY, You're not going to see Gap open across from the Main Library, on Richardson Street, Academy Street, Spring Street, Church Street, or Stone Avenue. Therefore those areas would be offering lower rents and would be SAFE for local merchants who don't feel they can compete for rent with national chains.

[goodbye]

...We seem to have this mentality that it is our right to park directly in front of our destination. That is a decidely suburban notion. We are a city, we should act like it. People should be getting out of their cars and walking a block or two. I wonder how many people don't even know that great places like Luna Rosa and Addy's even exist... simply because they've never seen them...

BINGO! You just said what I was basically stating earlier. If the tiny parking fee in a garage is too much then something is seriously wrong with that person's mentality. And by the way, most of the garages are heavily utilized during the day by downtown business workers. There are still plenty of vacant spaces however.

Call me a "loser," Linkerjpatrick. Oh wait, you just did! In my opinion, locals have no business driving/cruising up and down Main Street - not when you can park on a side street or in a garage and walk to every destination with ease. If it is raining, just carry an umbrella. My personal feeling regarding the free spaces on and near Main is to let the new visitors park there, since they are less likely to be looking for a garage.

Perhaps the City should close portions of Main Street to public auto traffic, so that people will have no choice but to park and walk.

[GvilleSC]

I'm like you, Skyliner. I prefer to park on a side street and walk. Downtown's atmosphere and vibe (not to mention beauty), makes it pleasurable to get out and enjoy, which for me can be prolonged by parking a block or two off of Main Street. Garages offer the same sort of thing, but I like to switch it up with various streets.

[gvegascple]

I'm like you, Skyliner. I prefer to park on a side street and walk. Downtown's atmosphere and vibe (not to mention beauty), makes it pleasurable to get out and enjoy, which for me can be prolonged by parking a block or two off of Main Street. Garages offer the same sort of thing, but I like to switch it up with various streets.

My stance on the parking question is if it isnt broke, do not fix it. Creating diagonal 2 hour parking spaces out of the extra two lanes that were removed was one of the factors that helped bring people downtown. I say do more of it. The people that want pay parking usually base that argument that if we charged for the spot, that it will be open right in front of the store they want to go to, when they decide to go. I feel that encouraging people to come downtown with free parking just encourages people to come. If I was a store owner, I would not want my customers to be limited to just those that can fit right in front of my store, but those that want to park in front of my store, those that dont care, those that dont even want to come to my store but have to walk past my store on the way to their original destination and decided to walk in. That is the environment originally fostered by the parking created, we should expand upon that success. Lets cut another 4 lanes down to 2 and make more. Maybe McBee or Broad. Turn the Pinnacle sight into free parking, same goes for the Peacock and any other "planned" site that is floundering. The goal is to pack the people in folks.

[goodbye]

...Lets cut another 4 lanes down to 2 and make more. Maybe McBee or Broad...

Those two streets are prime candidates for a diet.

[linkerjpatrick]

Call me a "loser," Linkerjpatrick. Oh wait, you just did! In my opinion, locals have no business driving/cruising up and down Main Street - not when you can park on a side street or in a garage and walk to every destination with ease. If it is raining, just carry an umbrella. My personal feeling regarding the free spaces on and near Main is to let the new visitors park there, since they are less likely to be looking for a garage.

I was being sarcastic. I have been reading but I think you're just trying to trick me into parking on a side road so you can get the Main Street space.

[goodbye]

Why would I want to park somewhere that would require my vehicle to be moved within an hour or two? I rarely spend less than two hours downtown at a time.

Edited May 15, 2008 by Skyliner

[GvilleSC]

I concur that McBee and Broad Streets both stand to be 'adjusted'.

Broad Street would benefit with diagonal parking as opposed to its current parallel parking, along with shrubs, etc like you see along Main. This is mainly true East of Main Street.

McBee is just a mess and needs some uniformity for its length. The portion of McBee near Prospect Hill is a waste of asphalt. I assume we'll see changes with the Peacock's completion (in a few years).