The State of Downtown Retail

[GvilleSC]

Y'all are discussing some great things in this thread! I like what I'm hearing. I hope the bicycle rentals aspect of the store does well. Some bike lanes intersecting North Main would be good to link people into the downtown system and the trails that extend North and South from the West End.

Also, it's good to hear that Twigs will not be vacating their current space, but just adding another location with a different focus. Honestly, I'm not sure what they sell now.

[GVLbikeNboard]

So a wine and cheese bar is opening directly below Stellar? Hmm...seems odd.

Edited August 1, 2008 by p2y2r7o

[goodbye]

So a wine and cheese bar is opening directly below Stellar? Hmm...seems odd.

I read, "wine, cheese, gourmet grocery," meaning a place to purchace wine, cheese, and other edible items for consumption at a different location. A wine bar directly below another wine bar would seem illogical. Either way, I hope it will prove to be a longer lasting tenant than the recently closed "Bottles & Baskets" a few blocks up North Main. I love the concept and hope to see this place become a mainstay for Greenville's Main Street, yet I have serious doubts at this point.

[gs3]

Seems there are so many types of retail out there that downtown Greenville could support. I give all entrepreneurs credit for trying, even if some ideas don't work out. For every idea that doesn't stick, another does. The key for our downtown is for entrepreneurs to continually keep tyring....bring new ideas online....be well funded.

An idea I would love to see downtown: An upscale "gentlemans" barber shop. Not just your typical old south barber shop. A barber shop that feels like a gentlemans club. Leather furniture, cigars, plasma screens with the latest business news, wi-fi, etc. A true barber shop where you can get a crisp barber haircut and shave......a place where the barber notices those little stray hairs in your ears, and gets rid of them, a male manicure in privacy, hot towels on the face, cool towels on your head, etc, etc. Additional services to serve the businessman like shoe shines.......if you're in a hotel maybe they have a runner service and pick-up and steam your suit.......they could sell mens shaving and grooming products, great mens specialty colognes that aren't typical department store brands, etc, etc.

I definitely think Greenville has the downtown office population, not to mention the amount of business travelers, to make this type of barber shop successful.

The key would be that the shop is a gentlemans barber shop, not a styling salon.

Here is the link for a place I try to visit when in Seattle. This is very much along the lines of what I'm talking about. Anyway, just throwing out ideas.

http://www.capellis.com/about-us.html

Edited August 1, 2008 by gsupstate

[charlie swords]

Seems there are so many types of retail out there that downtown Greenville could support. I give all entrepreneurs credit for trying, even if some ideas don't work out. For every idea that doesn't stick, another does. The key for our downtown is for entrepreneurs to continually keep tyring....bring new ideas online....be well funded.

An idea I would love to see downtown: An upscale "gentlemans" barber shop. Not just your typical old south barber shop. A barber shop that feels like a gentlemans club. Leather furniture, cigars, plasma screens with the latest business news, wi-fi, etc. A true barber shop where you can get a crisp barber haircut and shave......a place where the barber notices those little stray hairs in your ears, and gets rid of them, a male manicure in privacy, hot towels on the face, cool towels on your head, etc, etc. Additional services to serve the businessman like shoe shines.......if you're in a hotel maybe they have a runner service and pick-up and steam your suit.......they could sell mens shaving and grooming products, great mens specialty colognes that aren't typical department store brands, etc, etc.

I definitely think Greenville has the downtown office population, not to mention the amount of business travelers, to make this type of barber shop successful.

The key would be that the shop is a gentlemans barber shop, not a styling salon.

Here is the link for a place I try to visit when in Seattle. This is very much along the lines of what I'm talking about. Anyway, just throwing out ideas.

http://www.capellis.com/about-us.html

that definitely looks like a good idea, but from the website it looks more like a salon thats decorated to cater towards men...its not usually what i would think of as a barbershop. Why are most men afraid of a salon anyway?

[gs3]

that definitely looks like a good idea, but from the website it looks more like a salon thats decorated to cater towards men...its not usually what i would think of as a barbershop. Why are most men afraid of a salon anyway?

It is an updated twist on a barber shop. I think it could work downtown.

I'm not afraid of a salon, I just don't like a salon. The cuts are different. A true barber cut is just crisper and neater. After a barber cut I leave feeling more clean, well-scrubbed and fresh, instead of remade and scented. Hard to describe really, but a barber cut seems to be more simple, yet much more of a luxury at the same time. The attention to detail in a barber cut is usually much higher.

Get a barber cut in Miami from one of the Cuban barbers.........WOW. You leave feeling like a new man.

Are there even any old barber shops left around Greenville?

[Spartan]

My thoughts exactly... there's one very easy way to do this...

Charge for parking on Main Street... viola, instant expansion of downtown.

I'm a little late in my reply on this one... but I view this as an important step in the evolution of downtown. Charging for parking would be highly controversial, but in a setting like Main St where people already view it as a major destination, you won't hurt business. If anything, they can be priced in such a way that encourages higher turnover and generate more business. I think most people already pay for parking in the garages as it is OR they park far away and walk. I personally don't even bother looking for a spot on Main St anymore since I never have been able to find one.

Re: Target- with the closure of McAlister Square, decline of Pleasantburg Drive (and before, the closure of Belk's on Augusta Road and more), I think that central Greenville is definitely under-served by day-to-day retail; my parents live about 1/2 mile from downtown and they (and I, when I visit) loathe having to schlep out to Woodruff or Haywood Roads even just for a pair of socks or a trip to Target.

Charlotte got a Target, Best Buy, etc. all basically downtown (on the outskirts, but still walkable from the center of uptown) in a mixed-use development. I think that something similar would do fine in Greenville. So glad to see McBee Station, but even more retail like that would be great and would probably do well.

For what its worth, the scenario in Charlotte is slightly different in that there was nothing within about 6 or 7 miles of Uptown. Charlotte has what's called a "city within a city" (CWAC) that is among other things, a significant population base that was (and still is) undeserved by most standard retail if you consider the greater context of all the shopping that is available here. I had to drive close to 30 minutes to get to a Target before the one in Midtown opened (which only happened once, BTW ).

I mention all of this because I think its important to consider the context of these developments relative to Greenville. Greenville's nearest stores are 2 or 3 miles away, so it may not be appropriate to push for a Target downtown (at least not yet). I do agree that downtown needs some national retailers of some sort, especially pharmacies. It would add a new level to the city, thats for sure. I went to Santa Barbara, CA last year, and I was struck by how much the city reminded me of Greenville. They have a very well done downtown that is focused around main street (theirs is called State St) much like Greenville, and its what I sort of envision as Greenville's future. The list of stores there is impressive, but it did not feel like a mall or like it lacked any local flavor- infact, there was a great mix of national and local businesses.

[charlie swords]

It is an updated twist on a barber shop. I think it could work downtown.

I'm not afraid of a salon, I just don't like a salon. The cuts are different. A true barber cut is just crisper and neater. After a barber cut I leave feeling more clean, well-scrubbed and fresh, instead of remade and scented. Hard to describe really, but a barber cut seems to be more simple, yet much more of a luxury at the same time. The attention to detail in a barber cut is usually much higher.

Get a barber cut in Miami from one of the Cuban barbers.........WOW. You leave feeling like a new man.

Are there even any old barber shops left around Greenville?

i know there is still a barbershop at lewis plaza....that place has been there as long as i can remember...

i dont know why but i feel like i'm getting someone more qualified if i go to a salon (not the chains or one in the mall, a real salon)....well not really more qualified but more creative i guess...i dont know exactly what i mean really, i guess its just seems to me that barbers seem more limited in what they do. I feel that if i go into a barbershop and tell them i want a different hair cut they'll pull out a chart of about 10 haircuts and go "how about the #4, that.ll look sharp." But then again i havent been to an actual barbershop in a great many years.

and i dont believe i have gone home feeling scented...

[gs3]

i know there is still a barbershop at lewis plaza....that place has been there as long as i can remember...

i dont know why but i feel like i'm getting someone more qualified if i go to a salon (not the chains or one in the mall, a real salon)....well not really more qualified but more creative i guess...i dont know exactly what i mean really, i guess its just seems to me that barbers seem more limited in what they do. I feel that if i go into a barbershop and tell them i want a different hair cut they'll pull out a chart of about 10 haircuts and go "how about the #4, that.ll look sharp." But then again i havent been to an actual barbershop in a great many years.

and i dont believe i have gone home feeling scented...

I hear you.

But what I'm suggesting is a "gentlemens barber shop", sort of a cross between old time barber and salon, that focuses strictly on men. The place I posted above in Seattle can give you any kind of hair cut. The guys that work there are ultra professional and give a much better haircut because they strictly focus on men. In a salon, when you have someone that cuts both men and womens hair, I just feel there is less attention to detail on what makes a mans haircut, a great haircut.

Part of it too is the experience and the services. It's soooo much easier and less embarrassing to tell a guy in a barber shop to shave "further down your neck.....stray back hairs" than to tell a girl in a salon.

All in all, I just think an upscale barber shop downtown, focused on all needs of a businessman could be highly successful. It works in other cities. Downtown has plenty of spas and salons that are either unisex or focus on only women. I think it's time men had their turn. If I knew anything about this kind of business, I'd try to open this kind of place.

I just want to see downtown entrepreneurs as a whole keep trying new things. I've noticed when a place opens and doesn't last downtown, people get all negative. In much large cities, places are opening and closing on a regular basis. Some ideas work, some don't. If we are continually cycling new ideas and having new retail openings, our chances of more ideas sticking are greater. Just simple math.

[charlie swords]

I hear you.

But what I'm suggesting is a "gentlemens barber shop", sort of a cross between old time barber and salon, that focuses strictly on men. The place I posted above in Seattle can give you any kind of hair cut. The guys that work there are ultra professional and give a much better haircut because they strictly focus on men. In a salon, when you have someone that cuts both men and womens hair, I just feel there is less attention to detail on what makes a mans haircut, a great haircut.

i understand the concept and think it would be a great idea and do really well downtown...

Part of it too is the experience and the services. It's soooo much easier and less embarrassing to tell a guy in a barber shop to shave "further down your neck.....stray back hairs" than to tell a girl in a salon.

...uhm.....i dont really have that problem...

[Spartan]

I just want to see downtown entrepreneurs as a whole keep trying new things. I've noticed when a place opens and doesn't last downtown, people get all negative. In much large cities, places are opening and closing on a regular basis. Some ideas work, some don't. If we are continually cycling new ideas and having new retail openings, our chances of more ideas sticking are greater. Just simple math.

I think that a men's barber shop like you are describing could work. I also think that having one would be a sign that downtown as a business district is heading in a positive direction. I don't know what kind of employer volume it takes to support something like that, but its fair to say that these are becoming more common and popular with the young professional crowd. While I haven't been to one, I like the idea of watching SportsCenter while waiting to get my haircut than listening to miscellaneous light rock.

[gvegascple]

I think that a men's barber shop like you are describing could work. I also think that having one would be a sign that downtown as a business district is heading in a positive direction. I don't know what kind of employer volume it takes to support something like that, but its fair to say that these are becoming more common and popular with the young professional crowd. While I haven't been to one, I like the idea of watching SportsCenter while waiting to get my haircut than listening to miscellaneous light rock.

Do you think there are enough metrosexuals to support one of these?

I've seen them in DC and I think they have (or have had) one in Charleston too. They usually do manicures and pedicures for men too, which kind of creeps me out for some reason...

It would add a cool urban vibe downtown though, so I am all for it, but you probably wont catch me in there.

[gs3]

Do you think there are enough metrosexuals to support one of these?

This kind of barber shop seems to me to be more manly than salons. I would think the metrosexuals would stick to their salons.

[gs3]

I don't know what kind of employer volume it takes to support something like that, but its fair to say that these are becoming more common and popular with the young professional crowd.

I have no idea either about employee volume.....I would think Greenville's downtown volume may not be quite there, or just on the edge. A plus though is the amount of business travel into and out of Greenville. While many of these men don't stay downtown, almost all make in into downtown for lunch or dinner due to word of mouth. The same suited guys that you see keeping downtowns numerous restaurants full in the evenigs, would be the target customer.

[mallguy]

For what its worth, the scenario in Charlotte is slightly different in that there was nothing within about 6 or 7 miles of Uptown...

True; Charlotte definitely does have a much larger employment/residential base downtown and had minimal retail big-box between uptown and SouthPark/University City until Midtown opened.

However, central Greenville even as late as 1980, when the county's population was far smaller than it is today, supported probably 1.2 million more square feet of retail than it has today (considering McAlister Square, Bell Tower Mall and the downtown Sears, Belk and JC Penney all shut down and converted into non-retail formats). I'd think that a savvy developer could find a way to do some kind of development near downtown that would fill that void. Shopping patterns have obviously evolved so that people who used to shop in centrally-located stores now are used to trekking out to suburbia, but I'd think that there should be enough people who would support centrally-located retail that even a few hundred thousand square feet of Target-type stores would do fine.

A high-end men's barber shop would also probably fill a void; great idea. There is one on S. Tryon in Charlotte, and I had friends who'd go to it.

Edited August 1, 2008 by mallguy

[Greenville]

An idea I would love to see downtown: An upscale "gentlemans" barber shop. Not just your typical old south barber shop. A barber shop that feels like a gentlemans club. Leather furniture, cigars, plasma screens with the latest business news, wi-fi, etc. A true barber shop where you can get a crisp barber haircut and shave......a place where the barber notices those little stray hairs in your ears, and gets rid of them, a male manicure in privacy, hot towels on the face, cool towels on your head, etc, etc. Additional services to serve the businessman like shoe shines.......if you're in a hotel maybe they have a runner service and pick-up and steam your suit.......they could sell mens shaving and grooming products, great mens specialty colognes that aren't typical department store brands, etc, etc.

I definitely think Greenville has the downtown office population, not to mention the amount of business travelers, to make this type of barber shop successful.

The key would be that the shop is a gentlemans barber shop, not a styling salon.

Here is the link for a place I try to visit when in Seattle. This is very much along the lines of what I'm talking about. Anyway, just throwing out ideas.

http://www.capellis.com/about-us.html

Chiming in late here, but I really like this idea!

I think there is definitely a market for this. For men, it seems like getting a haircut means either going to a salon that mostly caters toward women or going to a "barber shop" where the haircuts are done by someone who only knows a few basic cuts (you know the type). I don't mind the former, and avoid the latter like the plague - but I would be open to trying something like you mentioned if it were available.

The interesting thing about the client

Edited August 2, 2008 by Greenville

[Spartan]

Do you think there are enough metrosexuals to support one of these?

I've seen them in DC and I think they have (or have had) one in Charleston too. They usually do manicures and pedicures for men too, which kind of creeps me out for some reason...

It would add a cool urban vibe downtown though, so I am all for it, but you probably wont catch me in there.

Lol, I have no idea. My guess is probably not, but you never know.

True; Charlotte definitely does have a much larger employment/residential base downtown and had minimal retail big-box between uptown and SouthPark/University City until Midtown opened.

However, central Greenville even as late as 1980, when the county's population was far smaller than it is today, supported probably 1.2 million more square feet of retail than it has today (considering McAlister Square, Bell Tower Mall and the downtown Sears, Belk and JC Penney all shut down and converted into non-retail formats). I'd think that a savvy developer could find a way to do some kind of development near downtown that would fill that void. Shopping patterns have obviously evolved so that people who used to shop in centrally-located stores now are used to trekking out to suburbia, but I'd think that there should be enough people who would support centrally-located retail that even a few hundred thousand square feet of Target-type stores would do fine.

A high-end men's barber shop would also probably fill a void; great idea. There is one on S. Tryon in Charlotte, and I had friends who'd go to it.

Yeah but thats central Greenville without Haywood Road and Woodruff Road. Bell Tower and McAlister closed for a reason. Also, its not just the population of uptown Charlotte. There is an entire city worth of people living within 4 miles of uptown that have been underserved by most retail. I'll also throw out there than the retail situation in downtown Greenville is much better by comparison. Charlotte lacks any significant retail presence on the street (especially Tryon). There is SOME, but its very poor to say the least.

[GvilleSC]

In Today's Greenville News is a section entitled: A day in the Life of Downtown. It's worth checking out if you haven't seen it yet.

As ad for the Hyatt is in this section, and it brags on downtown. It boasts the over 100 restaurants, and 130 shops downtown. Well, I for one, had NO idea that 130 shops were downtown. I never would have guessed that retail might be topping the number of restaurants. Anyone know if they're counting things we might not, or if there truly are 130 different shops?

[gs3]

From the Journal TBA's:

- Joseph-Beth Booksellers is still looking at downtown Greenville for a store. The company's owner is expected to make a trip to Greenville in a few weeks to look at the city. If a decision is made, it would still be a year or two until a store is built.

http://www.josephbeth.com/

This would be an EXCELLENT addition to Greenville retail.

[gman430]

Hope Heidi Aiken is happy: http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...-109NMainSt.pdf

Dunkin Donuts? Yes please: http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...-103NMainSt.pdf

Edited September 3, 2008 by citylife

[gs3]

Hope Heidi Aiken is happy: http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...-109NMainSt.pdf

Dunkin Donuts? Yes please: http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...-103NMainSt.pdf

Looks like Heidi got her wish.....she still won't be happy though. Wonder what her next crusade will be.......Soby serves the wrong brand of vodka?

Dunkin Donuts looks great. Glad to see the aesthetic integrity of the building is being maintained.

[Greenville]

I agree, Dunkin' Donuts looks great. Can't wait to see the inside!

[GVLbikeNboard]

Agreed as well, that looks awesome. I'm ready for that to open. Donuts are good and cheap!

[linkerjpatrick]

Agreed as well, that looks awesome. I'm ready for that to open. Donuts are good and cheap!

Wait a minute! Dunkin sells donuts?

[btoy]

Since the city approved the sign before it was installed I hope they plan on paying for it, if not I would assume the city will be sued for the cost of the sign.