The State of Downtown Retail

[GvilleSC]

Now were Target to develop the same small format, I would be OK with them downtown.....Target has taste and appeal.

You mean to tell me that the Hannah Montana clothing collection at Walmart would not appeal to the downtown Greenville demographics?!

[vicupstate]

If the architecture and design were appropriate, I don't see a problem personally. 85% of Americans shop there. Not much of what they would sell in a store that size would be offerred elsewhere DT.

BTW, When are the CVS and Green Monster projects starting? Both are pass due from the latest word, albeit that is typical.

[gman430]

BTW, When are the CVS and Green Monster projects starting? Both are pass due from the latest word, albeit that is typical.

I'm hearing the Green Monster project has gone the way of the Do-Do Bird if you know what I mean. CVS was supposed to start construction this month. Don't know if that is still planned or not.

[gs3]

You mean to tell me that the Hannah Montana clothing collection at Walmart would not appeal to the downtown Greenville demographics?!

They can only open downtown if they promise to add a companion collection for guys, by Justin Bieber.

[Greenville]

IMO, this would be a horrible idea for Greenville downtown. For regular downtowns in several cities, I'd say OK, but for the quality that Greenville has developed downtown, Wal-Mart, no matter how small, would be a blemish. While I want to see national retailers downtown, I think there has to be a guiding hand and balance as to who these national retailers are.

Now were Target to develop the same small format, I would be OK with them downtown.....Target has taste and appeal.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I thought, "No way I would want a Walmart...but Target would be great!"

[mallguy]

I'd rather have a Wal-Mart downtown that another low-traffic-generating cutesy gift shop. However, by "urban" markets, I think that the article was meaning "urban" like NYC, where Wal-Mart has been trying for years to open a store. Greenville has plenty of available land outside of downtown for a standard Wal-Mart and so there is no need for the chain to find space in the urban core.

White Plains, NY has a Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom and a Ritz-Carlton residential tower downtown and, within two blocks of all of those, a Wal-Mart. It's in a former Sears that moved to a mall further down Main St. If White Plains has the first three items, I'd say that its "quality" is pretty high.

The Main Street Woolworth's was a dump and there was a Woolco at Bell Tower Mall (another dump), so there is precedent for having non-upscale discounters downtown.

[goodbye]

Wal-Mart in the Upstate seems to attract an oddly disproportionate level of the "ghetto" element. That reason, along with the fact that we really don't need another big box retailer almost exclusively selling Chinese made products here - especially downtown. We've lost enough unique character already with the recent closing of so many great locally owned shops. Unless Wal-Mart can redefine its image into something actually respectable by U.S. citizens, then without hesitation I would say, "not in my backyard!"

[vicupstate]

Mallguy is probably right about NYC, but it is a good distance from DT to the nearest Walmart. If they wanted to serve the under-served city of Greenville proper, there aren't many places to build a big box, except to go back to Laurens Rd. (which has lost it's commercial district draw for the most part).

Walmart is upscaling their image and in particular certain units.

Does Target sell American made goods?

[breed]

Would this be a good idea for DT Greenville?

Talk among yourselves.

Yes... definitively. It is sorely needed in urban areas throughout the country... an affordable place to shop for basics. As it stands now, most people who live in downtown areas either travel to the suburbs for households expenses... or they pay through the nose. It would help increase the affordability of urban environments... resulting in more people considering it as a living option... resulting in more urban residential demand... which would help bring critical mass to downtown. Which is what we always talk about wanting. It's not going to occur with the addition of Yet Another Cute Expensive Niche Store. And while I don't think it would have the same effect as a suburban Walmart, it is reasonable to expect that as soon as they establish themselves downtown, the legitimacy of downtown as a retail location for any type of retailer is established.

However, I doubt that they would actually be interested... as we probably don't have the density they would want for an urban store. Kind of a catch-22.

[RiverWalker]

Wal-Mart in the Upstate seems to attract an oddly disproportionate level of the "ghetto" element.

"Ghetto" being generally understood as meaning "inner-city," I think you've failed to appreciate the much broader demand of your typical Mega-Super Wal-Mart. You completely left out the suburban element, i.e., the upwardly mobile trailer trash (if you count a 15-year-old Chevy Malibu with no factory options and three out of four hubcaps missing as "mobile"). Perhaps you would prefer a K-Mart boutique?

Edited October 15, 2010 by RiverWalker

[RiverWalker]

Yes... definitively. It is sorely needed in urban areas throughout the country... an affordable place to shop for basics. As it stands now, most people who live in downtown areas either travel to the suburbs for households expenses... or they pay through the nose. It would help increase the affordability of urban environments... resulting in more people considering it as a living option... resulting in more urban residential demand... which would help bring critical mass to downtown. Which is what we always talk about wanting. It's not going to occur with the addition of Yet Another Cute Expensive Niche Store. And while I don't think it would have the same effect as a suburban Walmart, it is reasonable to expect that as soon as they establish themselves downtown, the legitimacy of downtown as a retail location for any type of retailer is established.

Hm. I think that's precisely the market that Rite Aid/SaveALot is targeting, except without clothing and housewares. I was in the one on Woodruff Rd. today, and I must say it looks very convenient with quite a selection of stuff. Everything from fresh produce to frozen foods to day-to-day sundries. I think this concept could be a winner in both urban and suburban settings, and there could be some serious competition if Wal-Mart sets their sites on the same particular niche but without the basic clothing etc.

Edited October 15, 2010 by RiverWalker

[mallguy]

I agree that there is definitely a need for a Wal-Mart-type store or other large day-to-day retailer in or around downtown; as I've said, I've seen probably 1.4 million square feet of regular mall-type retail vanish from downtown and the central city (with Bell Tower Mall, McAlister Square and downtown department stores closing). There's a void for someone to fill. I don't see Wal-Mart or the like as needing to be on Main Street though; there is plenty of developable land downtown. Those half-vacant blocks between N. Main and Church Streets, where there are just mid-sized buildings and parking lots, would work.

I never see much traffic at McBee Station; if that took off, it'd surely help lure other similar large chain stores to downtown.

[Galley]

Target has urban stores. The 2-story store in downtown Minneapolis has a special esacalor for buggies called a vermaport.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Galley

[btoy]

There is a K-Mart on Mills Ave. it fills any need that a Wal-Mart might for those of us that live downtown.

[mallguy]

There is a K-Mart on Mills Ave. it fills any need that a Wal-Mart might for those of us that live downtown.

I had forgotten about that store- apart from a trip there about a year ago, the last time I went was in the mid-1980s. Does anyone much go there, other than people who live in the neighborhoods right behind it?

[btoy]

I do.

[Greenville]

Let's put an urban Wal-Mart downtown. Then we'll get an urban Dollar Tree, an urban Sally Beauty Supply, and maybe even an urban GameStop!

[gs3]

Let's put an urban Wal-Mart downtown. Then we'll get an urban Dollar Tree, an urban Sally Beauty Supply, and maybe even an urban GameStop!

And an urban Piggly Wiggly and an urban Auto Zone and an urban Knights Inn or Motel 6 and an urban Ryans Buffet......we can just trash downtown big time!!!!!! Love it!

[gman430]

Let's put an urban Wal-Mart downtown. Then we'll get an urban Dollar Tree, an urban Sally Beauty Supply, and maybe even an urban GameStop!

You forgot about an urban Cato clothing store, an urban Check 'n Go, an urban gas station style convenience store, and an urban run down chinese restaurant. We need to make every single store front on Main Street like Qwikees so it where it looks like a mixture of Highway 123 in Easley and Poinsett Highway between downtown and Cherrydale Point.

Edited October 17, 2010 by citylife

[Greenville]

And an urban Piggly Wiggly and an urban Auto Zone and an urban Knights Inn or Motel 6 and an urban Ryans Buffet......we can just trash downtown big time!!!!!! Love it!

Perfect! Then we can have all the fat @sses in their "I'm Big on the Pig" neon-colored Piggly Wiggly t-shirts strolling Main Street.

[GvilleSC]

What are the chances that we could get "KIA OF GREEEEEEEEEER" to come to Main Street? The former Woolworth site would be decent, especially if their yelling advertiser were to compete with the street preachers at that corner... Just a thought...

[GVLbikeNboard]

Perfect! Then we can have all the fat @sses in their "I'm Big on the Pig" neon-colored Piggly Wiggly t-shirts strolling Main Street.

Are you suggesting that all fat @sses have those shirts, or that the only ones with them are fat @sses? My younger sisters have them and neither of them are fat.

[charlie swords]

I had forgotten about that store- apart from a trip there about a year ago, the last time I went was in the mid-1980s. Does anyone much go there, other than people who live in the neighborhoods right behind it?

i live right behind it and i dont go there much, it's like the shopping of the damned.

[krazeeboi]

If anyone is curious, this is what these new "urban Wal-Marts" look like:

Looks like something that would fit in at McBee Station. And I think it's safe to say these this format won't attract GameStops, Cato's, Dollar Trees, etc.

[vicupstate]

Looks good to me, and doesn't look like by 'urban' they mean NYC or Chicago.

Snoby anti-Wal-Mart comments coming in 5, 4, 3, 2,..