The State of Downtown Retail

[gman430]

It was in the TBA section of the latest G-Journal. They have signed a lease for 20 East Coffee Street.

Didn't realize this until now but Hoops And Hops has closed and that's where they'll be locating.

[GvilleSC]

I love Groucho's and it's good to see them expand, especially outside of the Midland's.

They tried a Greenville store MANY years ago and failed miserably on Augusta Rd near Faris. They did very poor scouting for that location. Maybe this one will do better given the office workers in the vicinity, but I've personally never been real impressed with their food. Then again, I don't like Panera or ABC. Either way, it's good to see additional attempts at the retail/restaurant scene, no matter their outcome.

What used to be in this space?

[GvilleSC]

I love Groucho's and it's good to see them expand, especially outside of the Midland's.

They tried a Greenville store MANY years ago and failed miserably on Augusta Rd near Faris. They did very poor scouting for that location. Maybe this one will do better given the office workers in the vicinity, but I've personally never been real impressed with their food. Then again, I don't like Panera or ABC. Either way, it's good to see additional attempts at the retail/restaurant scene, no matter their outcome.

What used to be in this space?

[vistatiger]

I love Groucho's and it's good to see them expand, especially outside of the Midland's.

And people need to get over the Wal-mart fiasco. It should come and it should be forced to include mixed use and good design. If it doesn't want to comply then just pass it up but I'm sure a deal can be worked out. People on here always want affordable housing and such downtown but why can't their be some cheaper retail downtown? This store isn't a supercenter so take that part out of your head and try to think clearly about it. This could be an excellent opportunity for Greenville to have something unique.

I don't live in the area so it really doesn't matter to me either way. This will probably be about the size of a typical Target. Whether it has a supercenter sign on it or not. Wal-Mart has figured out a way to reduce the footprint of a supercenter which had a lot of wasted space. I think it will be about the same as the Pelham Road store which has everything a supercenter has except an oil change center. It will probably have only one entrance, a central racetrack aisle design and reduced department sizes. Big Boxes also don't need those huge electronics departments any more because of thin tvs, reduced music areas ( because of online music downloads) and other shrinking technology. I prefer these smaller stores verses the time it takes to wonder through a gigantic store.

[GVLbikeNboard]

They tried a Greenville store MANY years ago and failed miserably on Augusta Rd near Faris. They did very poor scouting for that location. Maybe this one will do better given the office workers in the vicinity, but I've personally never been real impressed with their food. Then again, I don't like Panera or ABC. Either way, it's good to see additional attempts at the retail/restaurant scene, no matter their outcome.

What used to be in this space?

Can't remember if I've eaten at the Columbia location or not, I think I may have once. If it was the same place I'm thinking it was pretty good, nothing incredible, just good sandwiches. Good luck to them though, with ABC, Jimmy John's, Jersey Mike's, two Subways, and Quiznos. Not to mention all the restaurants that sell decently priced sandwiches.

[gman430]

What used to be in this space?

Hoops And Hops.

[GvilleSC]

Hoops And Hops.

Never tried H & H, but they have a beautiful building.

[goodbye]

Hoops And Hops.

And before that, Mia Dimora. And before that, Earshot. H&H is way out of place on that list of former tenants.

[goodbye]

I think we all know the physical address for this project:

http://www.constructionjournal.com/project_view.aspx?tab=2&id=766618&t=Wal-Mart+

They're calling it a 1-story, 100,000sf supermarket/convenience store, with an estimated cost of $5-10 million.

I would love to see a parking garage built behind or under this development to serve Sirrine Stadium as well.

[gs3]

OK, I have to rant for a bit:

- Greenville gets a new mixed use development proposed for Main & Washington (One). The design is strikingly modern. It will have the first "sky lawn" in Greenville on the 4th floor. It is dense and urban. It will have a bank headquarters that will ultimately employ 250 plus. A moderately upscale national chain, Anthropolgie, typically found in better malls signs on. Additional retail and restaurants of a solid calibre to sign on. All this is GREAT, yet Heidi and crew take it to court. Locals fuss and fume about it. There are people against it.

- Wal-Mart, the nations chain of lowest common denominator stores, wants to build a 100,000 square foot, one level store in an urban area close to city center....a store better suited for the sprawl and demographics of ho-hum middle class burbs. A store that will sale cheap "$*#&" of questionable taste. A store that does not fit the Cleveland Park / August Street demographic it will be near. YET, no complaints from Heidi and crew. No complaints from anyone. No fussing. No court battle. Silence.

Sickening.

Edited July 29, 2011 by gsupstate

[vicupstate]

OK, I have to rant for a bit:

- Greenville gets a new mixed used development proposed for Main & Washington (One). The design is strikingly modern. It will have the first "sky lawn" in Greenville on the 4th floor. It is dense and urban. It will have a bank headquarters that will ultimately employ 250 plus. A moderately upscale national chain, Anthropolgie, typically found in better malls signs on. Additional retail and restaurants of a solid calibre to sign on. All this is GREAT, yet Heidi and crew take it to court. Locals fuss and fume about it. There are people against it.

- Wal-Mart, the nations chain of lowest common denominator stores, wants to build a 100,000 square foot, one level store in an urban area close to city center....a store better suited for the sprawl and demographics of ho-hum middle class burbs. A store that will sale cheap "$*#&" of questionable taste. A store that does not fit the Cleveland Park / August Street demographic it will be near. YET, no complaints from Heidi and crew. No complaints from anyone. No fussing. No court battle. Silence.

Sickening.

Keep in mind that Heidi and crew consist of a total of 3 people that I know of.

Walmart is 2 day old news, no one has had time to protest it, and no decisions have been rendered about it, against which to protest against.

[gs3]

Walmart is 2 day old news, no one has had time to protest it, and no decisions have been rendered about it, against which to protest against.

True. Thanks. Maybe there is hope.....

[Greenville]

I am confident there will be heavy protests about this proposed Walmart, if it even gets to the point where the public knows about it. I don't think the protests will come from Heidi Aiken and crew, because they only care about Main Street. Rather, it will come from the Haynie-Sirrine master plan folks, Cleveland Park area residents, and Augusta Road residents. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. At the end of the day, Walmart - when pushed up to the road and decorated in a unique exterior - is still Walmart.

[goodbye]

- Wal-Mart, the nations chain of lowest common denominator stores, wants to build a 100,000 square foot, one level store in an urban area close to city center....a store better suited for the sprawl and demographics of ho-hum middle class burbs. A store that will sale cheap "$*#&" of questionable taste. A store that does not fit the Cleveland Park / August Street demographic it will be near. YET, no complaints from Heidi and crew. No complaints from anyone. No fussing. No court battle. Silence.

Sickening.

First, there will definitely be a battle. This proposal seems to be in the early stages of development and will eventually require public input before a vote of approval/rejection.

Second, I have seen plenty of opposition from online forum members since WYFF aired this story two days ago. If it is important enough to anyone saying such negative things about the proposal, then a public protest and/or a legal battle are equally attainable in this case. If local citizens care enough about the type of development happening in their neighborhood, then they will rally to voice their opinions.

[goodbye]

By the way, saying everything on an online forum isn't an equivalent alternative to a public protest.

[gs3]

If local citizens care enough about the type of development happening in their neighborhood, then they will rally to voice their opinions.

I'll certainly be out protesting this one (not just online).

Just slap my hiney and call me Heidi!

[johnpro318]

I am confident there will be heavy protests about this proposed Walmart, if it even gets to the point where the public knows about it. I don't think the protests will come from Heidi Aiken and crew, because they only care about Main Street. Rather, it will come from the Haynie-Sirrine master plan folks, Cleveland Park area residents, and Augusta Road residents. And I wouldn't blame them one bit. At the end of the day, Walmart - when pushed up to the road and decorated in a unique exterior - is still Walmart.

My point is this: yes, it is still a Walmart but for all the people on here who rant and rave about affordable housing, why can't this be built? All of the people who protest this project will be the same people who stop by to pick up some things. Instead of protesting it, work with the development to make it an awesome project! Use local residents and their voices to force a large company to adapt to THEIR needs. If they are thinking about putting a location there, then that means the demand is there. Walmart locations don't invest millions of dollars for a store on a whim.

The same thing happens over and over again. Just make them build it to the neighborhood's standards. If they won't, then protest and raise hell. I don't know maybe I'm missing the point.

[gs3]

My point is this: yes, it is still a Walmart but for all the people on here who rant and rave about affordable housing, why can't this be built? All of the people who protest this project will be the same people who stop by to pick up some things. Instead of protesting it, work with the development to make it an awesome project! Use local residents and their voices to force a large company to adapt to THEIR needs. If they are thinking about putting a location there, then that means the demand is there. Walmart locations don't invest millions of dollars for a store on a whim.

The same thing happens over and over again. Just make them build it to the neighborhood's standards. If they won't, then protest and raise hell. I don't know maybe I'm missing the point.

I cetainly won't be stopping by to pick up things. I avoid Wal-Mart period. Anywhere and everywhere. I've seen what Wal-Mart has done to drive local stores out of business. I've seen too many cities where Wal-Mart hop-scotched around within a mile or so zone, with new larger buildings every 5 years or so, leaving multiple older buildings, just blocks away, empty....."retail brownfields." Wal-Mart isn't exactly a good corporate citizen.

They may be forced to adapt the development, but they certainly can't be forced to change the taste level of merchandise they sell. And.....unless this 100,000 sq feet is forced to be on two levels, it simply doesn't fit in an urban environment.

This feels very UN-Greenville to me.

[Birdbrain]

- Wal-Mart, the nations chain of lowest common denominator stores, wants to build a 100,000 square foot, one level store in an urban area close to city center....a store better suited for the sprawl and demographics of ho-hum middle class burbs. A store that will sale cheap "$*#&" of questionable taste. A store that does not fit the Cleveland Park / August Street demographic it will be near. YET, no complaints from Heidi and crew. No complaints from anyone. No fussing. No court battle. Silence.

Sickening.

Just give it some time. First the protests. Then the construction. Then the grand opening. Then the "dashing in to pick up a few things" by the very same protestors. It happens everywhere. See my earlier observation about the Pelham Road ho-hum middle class burb Wal-Mart.

But no, if TASTE is what you are after, then Wal-Mart has NEVER presented itself to be the Fashionista Hub for all that is avant-garde.

That, my friend, is why we have Bass Pro Shops. :-)

Edited July 29, 2011 by Birdbrain

[GvilleSC]

My point is this: yes, it is still a Walmart but for all the people on here who rant and rave about affordable housing, why can't this be built? All of the people who protest this project will be the same people who stop by to pick up some things. Instead of protesting it, work with the development to make it an awesome project! Use local residents and their voices to force a large company to adapt to THEIR needs. If they are thinking about putting a location there, then that means the demand is there. Walmart locations don't invest millions of dollars for a store on a whim.

The same thing happens over and over again. Just make them build it to the neighborhood's standards. If they won't, then protest and raise hell. I don't know maybe I'm missing the point.

Walmart CAN be fine at this location. You're correct, IMO.

However, the issue is this: the City has put a MASSIVE amount of energy into making the overhaul of Church Street a reality. The boulevard that will result should be an extraordinary gateway to downtown from the south side. And, all of this time, effort, and money has been done in the hopes of attracting development and making this corridor an urban downtown-adjacent neighborhood. ...And here we are finding out that the first spin-off development might be a sprawling Walmart with no mixes of uses? Thus, an issue arrises. Furthermore, this is probably the most prime piece of real estate on the entire corridor, placed on a vista with stunning views of downtown and easy access to the Swamp Rabbit Trail.

This will NEVER fly in this capacity if it requires a new zoning designation. Which, the For Sale sign states that the land is zoned "Mixed Use".

[gs3]

That, my friend, is why we have Bass Pro Shops. :-)

Chills up my spine.....

Why doesn't the developer just go all out and make this a true mixed use project....Wal-Mart and Bass Pro could anchor, then throw in Piggly Wiggly, Sally Beauty Supply, Golden Corral Buffet and of course Glamour Shots (for the local Toddlers & Tiaras crowd). Man, what a fantastic development we could have! (Let me go get a towel, my screen is dripping with sarcasm).

[mallguy]

The location where the Walmart will be has the following within the range of a few feet to a fraction of a mile:

(1) A derelict mall, formerly anchored by a Walmart subsidiary and a Woolco, that has been transformed into office space.

(2) Lots of low-income housing close by.

(3) A gas station and a tire store.

(4) Fast-food restaurants.

(5) Some type of industrial building and a former 7-Eleven.

(6) A laundromat (that was at the mall before it closed, at the main entrance).

The Walmart site is hardly "urban" or "upscale". Further, it's been without material change for decades. Those of us who are in central neighborhoods (and I count, when I'm visiting family) need day-to-day retail without having to trek to Woodruff Road, and this is the perfect site; it is not in the midst of Main Street or the West End.

(On Main Street in White Plains, NY, there is a Walmart. It opened in a former Sears, just a few blocks from a Neiman Marcus and a Ritz-Carlton. I don't find the store to be particularly attractive, but it doesn't seem to have much of an impact on the surrounding area, either.)

Edited July 29, 2011 by mallguy

[gs3]

The location where the Walmart will be has the following within the range of a few feet to a fraction of a mile:

(1) A derelict mall, formerly anchored by a Walmart subsidiary and a Woolco, that has been transformed into office space.

(2) Lots of low-income housing close by.

(3) A gas station and a tire store.

(4) Fast-food restaurants.

(5) Some type of industrial building and a former 7-Eleven.

(6) A laundromat (that was at the mall before it closed, at the main entrance).

You make good points mallguy as what the area has historically been. But the area, with the cities redo of Church Street, is moving in a different direction. Gentrification. Currently in the area, as of today, July29, 2011:

- There is no derelict mall. There are are county offices in a former mall.

- One block over are homes in the Augusta Street / Cleveland Park neighborhood.

- A gas station.

- A new Zaxby's fast food.

- Right across the street, that "some type of industrial building" is now NEXT.

- The Governors School

- Brio condos http://www.carolinarealtyguide.com/the-brio.php

- The future Cancer Survivors Park

- Mayme Baker Studio just moved one block over.

- Sirrine Stadium

Not sure anyone ever said this spot is upscale. The point is that a strong, non Wal-Mart demographic lives immedaitely within the area. The city is redeveloping the street to be more urban, dense and pedestrian friendly. A 100,000 square foot, one level Wal-Mart does not fit the direction the area is moving toward, maybe it fits what the area was 20 years ago. I still detest Wal-Mart, but if Wal-Mart happens, a two level Wal-Mart with parking deck, or a smaller 50K Neighborhood Market, would better fit where this area is headed.

[swu_BA_student]

As a downtown resident, I would be thrilled to have an urban mixed use development that includes a Wal Mart. This design does not qualify. I really hope that the powers that be throw their weight around a little and make them do more with this site. That said, if this is the best we can get, I still want them here, it's just a dollars a cents thing. I like cheap groceries, all that high brow "I'm to good for Wal-Mart" stuff is for people who can afford it and don't care about the people in need of such retail and jobs.

[StrangeCock]

I'm torn on this. My initial reaction is "yuck...no." But if all you changed was the name Wal-Mart to the name Target, I'd be all for it. So I feel like my criticism is pretty insincere.

The fact is, we need a store like this downtown in order to be a viable city.