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Our City's Image in The Region.


Rizzo

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Another thought I've had is that Grand Rapids has already got a lot of the funcitonal aspects that make a city work...parks, residential units, restaurants, bars, shopping(but not enough), entertainment, medical complexes...now it needs some big city glitz to go with it. As important as the Medical Mile and some of the smaller renovations are, for the lay non-urban person its going to take a couple of iconic buildings before the suburbanites really start to talk about downtown, the Mariott and Riverhouse buildings are a good start. Hopefully, somewhere down the land we will land that dream office tower that we all have been waiting for.

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There has been repeated mentioning on this thread of the need of a large retailer to locate in Monroe Center to draw in the people. Being the new GRAM is materializing at Monroe Center and destined to draw in a sizable number of people, would it serve the function a larg retailer as far as bringing people to Munroe Center?

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There has been repeated mentioning on this thread of the need of a large retailer to locate in Monroe Center to draw in the people. Being the new GRAM is materializing at Monroe Center and destined to draw in a sizable number of people, would it serve the function a larg retailer as far as bringing people to Munroe Center?
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...

I also disagree with the high-rise aspect. Notice there is not one high-rise visible in the A2 video? And Holland or Ann Arbor is definitely not known for high-rises or glitz. More residents downtown is also not the answer I believe, because they too will (and do) complain about a lack of a concentration of good retailers. 1600 added now and they're still complaining (and I don't blame them). I think the approach has been misdirected.

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No, I don't think so. It will certainly be another special event draw to Monroe Center, but I don't know if it would act the same way as an anchor retailer. I think most people go to museums as a special event destination, not as a "hey, while I'm shopping for shoes, let's go check out the art museum and pay $20/person to get in" :lol: However, with that being said, it will be very critical what the museum does inside the space facing Monroe Center. If inside the windows they have various art exhibited, a cafe with outdoor seating, and other things to slow "sidewalk strollers" down to check it out, that would be perfect.

As the video mentioned, you can double the number of people on the sidewalks if people spend twice as much time on them.

I also disagree with the high-rise aspect. Notice there is not one high-rise visible in the A2 video? And Holland or Ann Arbor is definitely not known for high-rises or glitz. More residents downtown is also not the answer I believe, because they too will (and do) complain about a lack of a concentration of good retailers. 1600 added now and they're still complaining (and I don't blame them). I think the approach has been misdirected.

If in the area that the survey mentioned (Lexington W, College E, Franklin S, Leonard N) does have 40,000 workers, 27000 students, and 7818 residents, a few bold additions to Monroe Center, that alone should be enough to get it started and it will create a momentum for more retail and a much livelier setting. The key is in the details, not in the broad strokes.

Don't get me wrong, a few more high-rises will get people's attention, but only as they drive by on 131. Will they get off the highway?

I need to send these ideas to the city, and stop beating this thread to a pulp. :D

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I read somewhere that DT sees a daily influx of 30,000 students attending GVSU, GRCC and the other schools. I would be interested in seeing how that and the student housing DT compares to other cities with successful downtowns, such as A2 or Madison, because I think we are not capitalizing on that as much as we could be.
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Put the proposed Walker Cebella's DT to justify them asking for an incentive. Problem solved! :thumbsup:

With retailers, it seems like a chicken-and-egg thing to me. More people don't go DT because there is nothing to do. Well, no retailer is going to open up a store DT if no one is there! For DT to be more successful in terms of retailing, an "anchor" store would have to be something that is not offered in the 'burbs. If we got, say, Meijer to locate DT, why should I go there instead of the one that's a half-mile from my house? If we want people DT who do not normally go DT, we need to give them a reason to go through the perceived "hassle".
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With retailers, it seems like a chicken-and-egg thing to me. More people don't go DT because there is nothing to do. Well, no retailer is going to open up a store DT if no one is there! For DT to be more successful in terms of retailing, an "anchor" store would have to be something that is not offered in the 'burbs. If we got, say, Meijer to locate DT, why should I go there instead of the one that's a half-mile from my house? If we want people DT who do not normally go DT, we need to give them a reason to go through the perceived "hassle".
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^Nope.

Why not try somthing like a farmer's market? If not it would have to be somthing unique that will be a big draw that 'burbs won't have nore unable to get, retail or other wise. It would also need to draw a constant number of people instead of the cycles of bursts and quiet like Arena or Convention events.

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Forget about a high-end retail anchor. What about a permanent indoor/outdoor market in that lot between Pearl and Monroe Center? The Pearl Street Market.

324211254_7b5d5070d1.jpg

ashflow.jpg

I know, I know. Ellis will never give up that lot. Think about it though with the backside of Ledyard Bldg opened up for more retail facing the inner plaza/market. Ledyard also has that multi-story atrium that could be opened up facing the market. :shades:

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That would be a very good location. Now let's pry that ugly surface lot out of Ellis's fingers.

Forget about a high-end retail anchor. What about a permanent indoor/outdoor market in that lot between Pearl and Monroe Center? The Pearl Street Market.

324211254_7b5d5070d1.jpg

ashflow.jpg

I know, I know. Ellis will never give up that lot. Think about it though with the backside of Ledyard Bldg opened up for more retail facing the inner plaza/market. Ledyard also has that multi-story atrium that could be opened up facing the market. :shades:

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I don't know how you meant that comment above. That it wouldn't be feasible for high-end retail or just not likely it will happen soon.

I agree, that I don't think its likely, but I do I think high-end retail could really succeed downtown. A shopping district would need to define itself to be sucessful. Would another Gap, A&F, Express, etc really convince people that downtown is the place in the metro to shop? I would think they'd prefer their cars and massive lots at the malls.

Although, for high end retail, residents can either go to Detroit or to Chicago. I could be wrong, but I thought I once read here on another thread that other then Chicago residents, the most sales were to W. Michigan residents. Plus, high-end retail would cater to the convention crowd as well. My 2 cents.

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When more high-end retail comes to Grand Rapids, it won't pick downtown because the demographics are just not there. Or at least I don't think they'll be there for another 20 years. Plus, I don't like the thought of what a high-end retail development downtown would entail, including a sea of parking.
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I don't dispute that the demographics of the city of GR and the city of Ann Arbor are different. We could also throw Holland into the equation, which has a downtown retail district worth emulating:

Median age: 29 years

Median household income: $44,051

Median house value: $148,400

I think # of public school students and graduation rates are a bit uninformative, since that's probably just GRPS and not the various private schools and charter schools added in.

But GRPS's problems run so far and deep that it's going to take quite a bit to turn that ship around. Plus, the instability that has been created by the school closings and consolidation has also left a bad taste in people's mouths, as mentioned in this article today. That's a massive undertaking you're talking about, in a time when public schools in general around the country are not teaching kids well.

It's been over 10 years since I've been to Ann Arbor, but I seem to remember several residential neighborhoods that directly adjoined the downtown area. But downtown GR seems to be isolated from its residential neighbors by a sea of DASH lots on the West, and industrial areas on the North and South. The only neighborhoods even close are Heritage Hill and Belknap Lookout. That could be a big reason as well. But downtown Holland is only adjoined by neighborhoods on the Southwest side as well. I wonder how they are able to keep downtown retail lively?

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Forget about a high-end retail anchor. What about a permanent indoor/outdoor market in that lot between Pearl and Monroe Center? The Pearl Street Market.

I know, I know. Ellis will never give up that lot. Think about it though with the backside of Ledyard Bldg opened up for more retail facing the inner plaza/market. Ledyard also has that multi-story atrium that could be opened up facing the market.

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I like the idea of something like this. I think having the Ledyard opened up, facing the market could create a very nice quaint little shopping mews. I would not be ready to forget about a big retail anchor, but this is something that could have a bit of an impact.

I also like the idea of removing the surface parking lot, as surface lots are not appropriate in urban cores, period.

Of course if you remove this parking lot, you might as well close up downtown, since there will definately be a parking crisis then.

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