3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[Charlotte_native]

None of my sources or contacts have said anything about this. All the usual insiders completely blind to this as well?

I think that might be a result of an Atlanta based group that works efficiently, fast, and quietly! Whatever the reason, Vive la Novare!!

This will make the park so much more than I envisioned. Glad to see the office, retail and commercial component. I suspect this park will be fairly full most times of the day and night.

[Charlotte_native]

It's really only an announcement boom at this point. Let's wait until we see construction starting before we get too excited.

The good thing about Novare is they usually don't need presales to start construction and they typically meet most, if not all, of their annoucned dates. If this goes as Avenue did, I would expect them to really begin this summer. Didn't someone say in another thread that demolition had begun at the Power Building or part of it?

[cltheel.sdl]

I think that might be a result of an Atlanta based group that works efficiently, fast, and quietly! Whatever the reason, Vive la Novare!!

This will make the park so much more than I envisioned. Glad to see the office, retail and commercial component. I suspect this park will be fairly full most times of the day and night.

Indeed, Novare will get it done. Their units are always snapped up as fast as can be, and if I remember correctly, they don't even do presales. They start construction on their towers before they even sell one unit.

[Miesian Corners]

I'm still amazed at how many things fall apart when attached to Levine. One more blow for First Ward. All that land and all those possibilities. Wonder if he told Novare they'd have to do a fifth study for the area?

[atlrvr]

It's odd that everyone seemed so shocked since we all knew this was coming (except for a stand-alone office tower). We've been talking about this for months, just without details on exact building heights or orientation.

As for TWELVE in 1st Ward, I think it would be false to assume that it was always a place-holder for a TWELVE in 3rd Ward. Novare obviously spent a substantial sum of money on architects and engineers, and submitted construction plans for permit approval. My guess is that Novare really wanted to drive the process, and just have Faison and Levine there as equity support, and that they were trying to be too hands on, that it just didn't make sense for Novare to f*ck around with them anymore when they had two great sites that they own outright.

For Levine's land to ever get developed, he is going to have to learn to take a back-seat or just sell his land, or step up to the plate and develop something besides a flex-park. He seems overwhelmed with options, and Faison was supposed to reign him in and make him focus. They brought him Novare on a silver platter, and he still apparantly couldn't come to terms.

I really think, what he can't figure out is the 1st Ward Park situation. It's a chicken and the egg with him. He needs the park to attract the development, but needs the development to pay for the park....that's just my humble opinion on the situation.

[sleightofhand]

Wow, this is great! I can't wait for them to start construction early this summer. Heck, I want to see floor plans pronto!

[Miesian Corners]

Wow, this is great! I can't wait for them to start construction early this summer. Heck, I want to see floor plans pronto!

It's a Novare project...they're all pretty much the same. More than likely you can look at any project they have in Atlanta and see what floor plans will be like. And the fact that kitchens and baths on even floors will have cabinets in color X, while those on odd floors will have color Y.

[Charlotte_native]

It's odd that everyone seemed so shocked since we all knew this was coming (except for a stand-alone office tower). We've been talking about this for months, just without details on exact building heights or orientation.

I don't think it is shock at what is coming as much as timing and the number of buildings they have announced at once. In other threads we have talked about worry that they would tear down the Power Building and sit on the land for a while.

[cooperdawg]

And the fact that kitchens and baths on even floors will have cabinets in color X, while those on odd floors will have color Y.

[atlrvr]

Also, I was disappointed that they couldn't come up with zero lot lines along 2nd street, but if they are adding interior streets then thats ok because it might open up more retail space. I will say, that there had better be a hell of alot of retail along 2nd.

I was wondering the same thing. I hope that they are going to have Poplar connect 1st and 2nd. While it won't do much to improve connectivity, if they towers' parking garages are accessed off this new street, it should help prevent traffic from backing up on 2nd, which seems poised to see lots of pedestrians crossing it.

[schmopperX]

It's really only an announcement boom at this point. Let's wait until we see construction starting before we get too excited.

I'd tend to agree with that statement but... If 50% of the projects announced at this point get built, it's still one hell of a boom.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Anyone know where the list of projected towers in CLT is? I saw it somewhere the other day.

[cltheel.sdl]

What does the Packard Building look like?

And, with the construction of the park and these towers, will the building that houses the House of Jazz and a couple other stores be torn down? It's a 1 or 2 story brick building along Church across from Latta Arcade.

[Miesian Corners]

^The Packard Building is where Angry Ale's used to be. Corner of Third and Church. It was reclad in EFIS back in the early 90s.

[crispin]

The worst part for Levine, as I've written elsewhere on this board, is that he could easily miss out on this entire cycle of development. His land is on the wrong side of Uptown. It's always made more sense to infill the parking lots between the skyscrapers and the ritzy neighborhoods. And now we've got a decade of development in the pipeline and not a single piece -- maybe not even that UNCC building that still needs parking -- is going to be on his land. Too bad for him, too bad for us.

[bork]

The worst part for Levine, as I've written elsewhere on this board, is that he could easily miss out on this entire cycle of development. His land is on the wrong side of Uptown. It's always made more sense to infill the parking lots between the skyscrapers and the ritzy neighborhoods. And now we've got a decade of development in the pipeline and not a single piece -- maybe not even that UNCC building that still needs parking -- is going to be on his land. Too bad for him, too bad for us.

You're right, but if all of the infill and development happens in the other wards -- Levine can potentially come in during the next development cycle and start with a much more valuable blank slate as there would be no parcels elsewhere for big projects..

[Charlotte_native]

You're right, but if all of the infill and development happens in the other wards -- Levine can potentially come in during the next development cycle and start with a much more valuable blank slate as there would be no parcels elsewhere for big projects..

But if the cycle draws down or stops after a few years....

[sleightofhand]

^Which could happen, especially with Novarre involved.

I have friends in Atlanta that blame Novarre alone for over crowding their condo market.

[bork]

But if the cycle draws down or stops after a few years....

With a big enough piece of land, even with the cycle slow, couldn't a product be created that creates it's own momentum (ie - a park, a village, lots of retail, or... bowling alley/movie theatre ... type things?)

Though I suppose Levine hasn't shown where he can pull something like that off...

[queensguy06]

Just a quick question with this project, are all of the high rise buildings scheduled to be under construction at the same time, or is this going to be like Citadin and complete each building individually before moving onto the next?

[tiblerbrit]

Well it says in the Observer article that all the buildings would be completed by 2011, so I would imagine the whole Duke Power block will start within a year of each other (summer 2007-2008), and the Angry Ales property just after that.

[cooperdawg]

With a big enough piece of land, even with the cycle slow, couldn't a product be created that creates it's own momentum (ie - a park, a village, lots of retail, or... bowling alley/movie theatre ... type things?)

Though I suppose Levine hasn't shown where he can pull something like that off...

From what I've heard of Levine's plans, the other development (at least in his mind) within the Uptown market only enhances his master plan as it isn't so much skyscraper oriented as it is more neighborhood oriented. Mostly 4-10 story structures with a few 20-25 story buildings here and there. I think it is his intent to keep this area much more oriented to the pedestrian scale and not blocking out the sun. (An alternative product as bork alluded to)

Just what I've gathered over the past year or two in talking with other designers/developers who have been in and around small parts of this project (Levine's). I actually feel that if he ever pulls this off (although admittedly I share MC's optimism for land touched by the hand of Levine), I think it could be an excellent complement to the high-rise boom we see now. Charlotte will need infill at the pedestrian level. I'm curious to see when he'll make an announcement, but not holding my breath.

[orulz]

I have friends in Atlanta that blame Novarre alone for over crowding their condo market.

And remind me how that's bad for the consumer? More options, more competition generally means better prices and happier buyers.

It may be purgatory for the Skyscraper Fanboy (fewer new skyscrapers will be constructed until the glut is resolved) but having a bit of an oversupply seems to me like it would actually push prices down.

The problem comes in when speculative investment gets out of hand.

[dubone]

Just so everyone knows... Angry Ales isn't in the Packard building anymore, it is a Picasso's currently. Also, does anyone have any pictures of what that building looked like before the stucco recladding? Is that actually a diamond in the rough? Also, based on the rendering, it almost looks like they could be building next to the Packard building. Do you all agree with that assessment, or am I just off on the scale, and it will extend all the way from 3rd to the current parking deck?

I am hopeful that this is a career lesson for Levine, and he'll stop f'n everything up for First Ward. The issue is that he doesn't seem to want to sink in any investment, he doesn't care about the semi-historic buildings on his own property, and he doesn't seem to have any clue about how to make things happen. He deserved this, and the city and county need to NOT sell him any more land (They've sold him entire blocks in the last couple years, and the county almost sold him the Hal Marshall land).

Here is something that I hope Novare would consider. The county does not plan to put any parking under the 3rd Ward Park because of the expense. I wish Novare would consider engaging the county to move the parking deck planned for 1st and Mint to underneath the park. Novare could then either keep that spot open as grounds for their project and as a future development spot, or simply increase the project scope. It seems to me that the county could reasonably give away the underground rights to Novare (as it is useless to the county), which could offset the higher costs of building underground. They could then potentially connect the two sections of Poplar under the park.

Lastly, I think the way this is phased in, we could avoid a glut. It thing about this is that with each of these projects, downtown Charlotte becomes more liveable, so it actually increases the market for the next project. The Wachovia project and the land swap projects will make 3rd Ward liveable, so now the land comes back from the dead. The issue with Levine is that he has lowered the value of his own land by wiping out everything on it, and stopping incremental development.

[Skyline49er]

Just a quick question with this project, are all of the high rise buildings scheduled to be under construction at the same time, or is this going to be like Citadin and complete each building individually before moving onto the next?

According to the O, the office building would start late summer 07, the 29 story condo tower would start early summer 07, TWELVE would start mid-to-late fall 07, and the 29 to 33 story condo tower would start mid 09.