Jump to content

3rd Ward Midrise Projects


UrbanCharlotte

Recommended Posts

And remind me how that's bad for the consumer? More options, more competition generally means better prices and happier buyers.

It may be purgatory for the Skyscraper Fanboy (fewer new skyscrapers will be constructed until the glut is resolved) but having a bit of an oversupply seems to me like it would actually push prices down.

The problem comes in when speculative investment gets out of hand.

I have to say, I see it the same way. About the only other problem I can see is if someone moves into one of these condos, and then say is transfered (their job) to another city and they have to sell rather soon after moving in. They may not see much if any appreciation, but that's generally the case in any neighborhood. So, in reality, this doesn't seem like much of a problem at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Is that actually a diamond in the rough? Also, based on the rendering, it almost looks like they could be building next to the Packard building.

The building was way ugly before the synthetic makover. It also was originally part parking garage converted to office space which makes for some serious funkiness in how the floors come together(or don't).

Yes, on the space next door, parking lot is part of the plan(second hand info) so the foorprint covers from the corner to the parking deck on the adjacent church st. & 4th corner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, but speaking of how this could all be good for the market and so forth, how upscale is this all supposed to be? The article in the paper today makes it sound like it should be in Southend...Is this development even going to be an option for "average Joes?" Or is it going to lockout people who make an average living like so many other new hotspots lately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Novare, tepee, but they basically try to do affordable urban living. It is still a middle class market, but they try to mix and match luxury features with low cost features.

High rises are always more expensive, because of the higher costs, but if the job is downtown, the transportation cost savings often more than offset the higher costs of the highrise condo, so it is even more affordable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While I am glad Novare is hot on the Charlotte market, I am not a huge fan of their architecture. All the stuff in Atlanta looks alike and (dare I say it) sorta cheap. I hope all of this doesn't come off looking like "a complex".

BTW, is it just me, or does anyone else wonder why every new condo tower has to have two spires? Is this the newest thing in residential high rises?

Edit: I looked at the rendering again, and they have forgone the double spire on these three.

Edited by Miesian Corners
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of their newer buildings have more interesting architecture.

This is 3630 Peachtree

3630.jpg

Gallery:

gallery.jpg

TWELVE Centenial Park (which seems somewhat like the model for this new plan in 3rd Ward)

centennialpark.jpg

Those all seem much more interesting than their old architectural scheme.

Avenue is in their new mould, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see the double spire :) But there are, in effect, three buildings there. It isn't bad for developers to try to create a brand by architecture. Lord knows Furman has built a career out of a single architectural brand.

But it seems that they are still starting to move away from that double spire thing. I'm mostly glad they are switching to taller buildings with smaller footprints. I really disliked their elongated buildings where one end was supposedly the front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Or the Altanta to the north ;)

Note. On the first two Novare projects you showed Dubone, those buildings are part of a new higher price-point model that Novare is rolling-out, hence the more adventuresome (costly) architecture. I think the article hinted that the building going at the 222 S. Church site could be part of the "luxury" series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, so we might get standard issue for the Twelve, 2nd and Mint, and the office building, but something hopefully more interesting at 3rd and Church. That is really okay with me. I think part of the issue is that highrises are often pressured to go all out on everything, and that is why they are expensive. If Novare has figured out that architecture, solid doors, and semi-standard kitchens are the way to save money and make high rises more affordable, then good to have it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually really excited about the office building. My own gut feeling is that they were going to do mixed use at 3rd/Church with condos over office, but I'm just as happy they will do a second tower, especially since it will hold probably around 1,200 employees....that's a lot more people on Church during the day, and should help support the Wachovia project retail.

Also, I have no idea what they will do as far as architecture, since they've never built an office tower new before (they've done some rehabs). I assume they will stick with SRSS as the arch., but that's not the end of the world since they did Hearst. My personal preference would be fairly plain, with just a hint of art-deco. I kind of dig the dark brown color facade that they show in the massing rendering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now, if they could do a 16-20 story art deco building, then good bye to the Duke Power building. I just would hate to go from something that had some human scale detailing to a short glass box. But if they can figure out how to incorporate those details (which Hearst does very well), then I'll be happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slightly off topic, but speaking of how this could all be good for the market and so forth, how upscale is this all supposed to be? The article in the paper today makes it sound like it should be in Southend...Is this development even going to be an option for "average Joes?" Or is it going to lockout people who make an average living like so many other new hotspots lately.

By providing a few stock and standard options in their projects in lieu of custom building of individual units, they're able to keep the price down as much as possible since they can order materials in bulk. I'm not sure if there is a more affordable way to go about high-rise condo construction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All indications would be that it's spec. I think the desire is to resign the leases that in the 222 S. Church building currently to this new tower, so they can retain those tenants. I would assume Novare will move it's own offices there, as well as some affiliates (maybe SRSS if they chose to have a Charlotte office)....still, unless they have something in the works that isn't public, I can only see about 25% of the space pre-leased. I would think it's a great building for doctor's offices, dentists, CPA's, CFP's with all the residences and ultra-high paying jobs within a block of there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if there is a more affordable way to go about high-rise condo construction.
Other than stick-built low-rises, think modular.

Modular construction can be significantly less expensive, and is extremely common in Europe, Asia, and (I believe) Latin America. But for some reason hasn't caught on as much here. Finished units (with hvac, plumbing/electrical fixtures, appliances, and even things like blinds and curtains) are shipped from a factory on a flatbed, lifted by a crane, and inserted into a steel frame that is constructed on-site. Each unit is anchored in place, connected to the utilities, and boom, instant condo. The big limiting factor with modular construction is that you have to be very creative in order to come up with a unique and attractive design.

This is one of the biggest reasons I'm always saying "worry about urban form first - architecture is a distant second." If we ever want to get truly affordable downtown living, modular construction is the only way to go - and you're not likely to get the architectural variation or wide variety of floor plans we see in Vue or 210 Trade (or Courtside for that matter) by going modular. You could certainly punch some holes between modular units and link two or three together into a single condo, but that's about as far as it goes.

(Sorry for the edit! had to flesh out the thought...)

Edited by orulz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone think the timing of the recent number of announcements in 3rd Ward could be coordinated timing to make an announcement of the park switcharoo and baseball stadium?

My thoughts are this: announce the Wachovia campus and cultural facilities on S. Tryon, announce projects to be built around a potential park in 3rd Ward, announce a park and baseball stadium next or soon all the while talking about how much development will be around it to create the necessary property tax values around it to easily get back a $7mil investment (that was already slated for the area anyway!).

It almost seems step-by-step to announcing this last component (park and stadium) of a greater plan. Maybe not, but possible...makes the city part of the investment pale compared to the private part.

EDIT: more thoughts, if only 300 S. Tryon would give us something solid in the form of an announcement that might be the last part of the process!!

Edited by Charlotte_native
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Other than stick-built low-rises, think modular.

Modular construction can be significantly less expensive, and is extremely common in Europe, Asia, and (I believe) Latin America. But for some reason hasn't caught on as much here. Finished units (with hvac, plumbing/electrical fixtures, appliances, and even things like blinds and curtains) are shipped from a factory on a flatbed, lifted by a crane, and inserted into a steel frame that is constructed on-site. Each unit is anchored in place, connected to the utilities, and boom, instant condo. The big limiting factor with modular construction is that you have to be very creative in order to come up with a unique and attractive design.

This is one of the biggest reasons I'm always saying "worry about urban form first - architecture is a distant second." If we ever want to get truly affordable downtown living, modular construction is the only way to go - and you're not likely to get the architectural variation or wide variety of floor plans we see in Vue or 210 Trade (or Courtside for that matter) by going modular. You could certainly punch some holes between modular units and link two or three together into a single condo, but that's about as far as it goes.

(Sorry for the edit! had to flesh out the thought...)

And of course, sadly, that wouldn't be marketable in America, at least this part of America.

Our urban housing is statement housing, not practical housing. McMansions in the sky, to borrow a theme from another thread. And our version of affordable is Novare -- for employees of banks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And of course, sadly, that wouldn't be marketable in America, at least this part of America.

Our urban housing is statement housing, not practical housing.

Or would it? Don't be so sure. They're having a go at it in Asheville, with a building of 162 units all between 600 and 900 square feet. Some will be released for sale; others will be held as rental units for future sale. We'll see how that goes, but I'm willing to guess that if the price is right (and it certainly should be given the economies of modular construction) there will be plenty of folks interested in living downtown for cheap.

The big problem I see with this is that architectural snobbery might prevent most (or ALL) buildings of this sort from getting built in the US. Sometimes form really should follow function, so a building can be just a building, not a "statement." Sure, some shiny "statement" luxury condos and office towers are appropriate, but it won't be long before that market's tapped out and we need to put on our work gloves to start thinking about the rest of us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The big problem I see with this is that architectural snobbery might prevent most (or ALL) buildings of this sort from getting built in the US...

Yeah, that's what I meant. There's obviously New York, and there are some such buildings in urban areas such as Boston and Chicago and Philadelphia, but it's a pretty short list, and certainly doesn't seem to be the trend in the New South.

On the other hand, Novare certainly is a step in the direction of mass-produced high-rises, even if they are gussied up. (Lordy how the gods of modernism must cringe at the geegaws on those boxes, or on Furman's for that matter) so let's hope the trend continues...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am very excited about these new projects. I was wondering if anyone would be able to provide a list of the names of some of the new condo projects in 3rd Ward (outside of Twelve and the Wachovia condos). I wanted to looked them up on the internet and see what other information was out there about them.

Also I don't know if they are allowed, but if someone knows the web address to these new projects I'd appreciate that info. Sorry to the website monitor if they aren't allowed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.