3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[AuLukey]

I'm a bit let down (but not surprised) that the parking deck is pre-cast...I guess this precludes the chance of there ever being a 4th tower on the block.

I wouldn't say "ever." The likelihood that there will be the need for a fourth tower on this block in the next fifty years is not great, but another project could be built with a large deck could be built to replace this deck. This is assuming another project would be built across the street to accommodate temporary parking.

I'm really surprised they didn't decide to use underground parking for this whole project spanning the whole block a la Epicentre and Wachovia.

[Andyc545]

Andy, what do you think those yellow strips are? This is absolutely EIFS. The only things redeeming are that they appear to be putting a strip of block or something on top of that to give it a better appearance and that it is a very small minority of the facade with all the glass.

Well I obviously have seen the yellow on the exterior, and I recognized that, at least the portions seen in the web cam where there is exposed yellow will certainly not be any type of stone, but instead some form of EIFS or a different material that would require these panels (stucco?). I knew this from the beginning. I know Novare is famous for having exposed concrete between any glass paneling, judging by a lot of his projects in Atlanta and Avenue. I agree, though, that there is so much glass on this tower that the extent of whatever material is used between the glass will be less of a standout.

[dubone]

It is almost definitely EIFS. The whole idea of EIFS is that you can apply it to the insulation foam because it is lightweight. If it were actual stucco, which is cement and sand, it'd be too heavy to apply to the foam and the lack of rigidity would make it crack. That is why you end up with styrofoam and the plasticky fake stucco that is part of the EIFS system. You'd be seeing masonry go up if it were real stucco.

This is based on what I've read, so if someone has first hand knowledge, please share.

[atlrvr]

The problem is, if parking is deeded to unit owners, then they can't tear down the deck, at least not with everybody agreeing to sell back their space....now, they may have reserved rights to spaces with provisions for alternate parking if the deck is demoed, but this would be different than most of their other projects.

[dubone]

The base uses what appears to be lightweight precast panels. Above that looks to be hard-coat stucco product, not eifs (at least not the same cheap variety that is being used on the epicenter).

The times that I have been down there, I have seen the yellow dens glas sheathing, then a vapor or wind barrier, metal lath, then a pretty thick base layer of a cementitious stucco material. I assume the final coat will go on when all of the base coat has been finished to the top of the structure.

This is in stark contrast to the epicenter which uses a sto eifs. It consists of the same dens glas sheathing, a 2-3 inch layer of styrofoam glued to the sheathing, and the thin layers of exterior coating.

I had missed this post when I replied yesterday. Thanks for the added information. Thanks for the update, as I had not not realized that hard coat could be used on top of that yellow insulation and I didn't mean to blatantly contradict you.

It is good to know that there is an ability to use real stucco without building out the masonry base that is more expensive on large projects.

[origin.clt]

^ No problem, descriptions can only go so far so here are some photos of what i was talking about.

You can see the metal lath as well as the multiple layers of stucco material and the absence of any white styrofoam. The yellow dens glass board is made by georgia pacific and provides wind and water resistance as well as structural backing for the permanent facade. It probably adds only a minimal insulation value.

[Andyc545]

Wow those are great pictures and great information. Thanks for clarifying and educating.

[Andyc545]

Appologize if any of this has been posted before, I don't remember seeing this concept with TWELVE in the background, too. BTW- speaking about TWELVE, don't recall how many facts have been posted but I'll post this also:

• 400 condos
  
• 150 hotel rooms
  
• 6000 sq ft restaurant
  
• 5000 sq ft ball room/event space
  
• www.twelvecharlotte.com has been registered but is currently under construction.
  

The view from the Wachovia campus.

Edited April 30, 2008 by Andyc545

[krazeeboi]

Wow, that's going to be one of the densest blocks in Uptown upon full build-out (I just wish Catalyst and TWELVE weren't so similar architecturally). Thanks for sharing that rendering, Andy.

[AuLukey]

I also hope they don't use those colors on Twelve. I'm sorry, I love that color blue on skyscrapers, but we're getting waaaay too many blue colored skyscrapers now. Avenue and Trademark were great. The Vue and the Wachovia complex are a bit redundant, but still nice. But now with Catalyst, possibly Trump, the even smaller possibility of One Charlotte, and now Twelve, Charlotte's future skyline is beginning to become boring and architecturally uninspiring -- just a bunch of blue glass boxes.

Twelve would be perfect IMO if they spruced up the architecture a little to make it less complimentary to Catalyst and Wachovia. And please, I hope they choose a different color in the final plan. I guess I shouldn't pass judgment until an actual Twelve-specific rendering is released. Hopefully these are just massings. And, is it me, or does Charlotte really seem to like rectangle floorplates? I wish we could get some curves and angles in the overall structure of all these new buildings rather than just at the tops. The office tower does something to help alleviate this issue, but only a little.

EDIT: point taken MC. Hopefully Bank of America, 210 Trade, and 300 S Tryon will be the saving graces to this trend to keep the skyline from becoming almost monotone.

Edited April 30, 2008 by aussie luke

[Miesian Corners]

I also hope they don't use those colors on Twelve. I'm sorry, I love that color blue on skyscrapers, but we're getting waaaay too many blue colored skyscrapers now. Avenue and Trademark were great. The Vue, BoA, and the Wachovia complex are a bit redundant, but still nice. But now with Catalyst, possibly Trump, the even smaller possibility of One Charlotte, and now Twelve, Charlotte's future skyline is beginning to become boring and architecturally uninspiring -- just a bunch of blue glass boxes.

The new Bank of America tower will not be blue glass. It will be clear with a green tint. Very little reflectivity at all.

[Guest]

The new Bank of America tower will not be blue glass. It will be clear with a green tint. Very little reflectivity at all.

Not to mention One Charlotte was nearly clear glass as well.

[AuLukey]

My point wasn't that only blue towers were being built, but that the vast majority of towers being built were basically of similar design and color. We aren't, by comparison, getting any darker colored buildings with a variety in materials, but just mainly glass boxes with different fixtures on top. Then again, that seems to be the trend everywhere right now, so I should just be happy these things are getting built period, and that change will come as new developments and new architectural styles appear.

[Guest]

My point wasn't that only blue towers were being built, but that the vast majority of towers being built were basically of similar design and color. We aren't, by comparison, getting any darker colored buildings with a variety in materials, but just mainly glass boxes with different fixtures on top. Then again, that seems to be the trend everywhere right now, so I should just be happy these things are getting built period, and that change will come as new developments and new architectural styles appear.

How cool would the CNA Plaza in Chicago be placed in charlotte somewhere?

Anyways, I tend to agree with you about the blue glass. Dont forget 300 South Tryon, that was also slated to be blue. I was actually hoping for a plainer gray glass that was represented on the website for novare but what can you do. I will welcome more towers in the future, until I actually have authority over what gets built.

[Andyc545]

OK- so I was playing around and I taped into the Catalyst website. Click the links I post to see some of the pages, because you can't access them from any of the regular pages that are on their webpage yet.

http://www.catalystcharlotte.com/views.html

http://www.catalystcharlotte.com/neighborhood.html

Maybe this indicates that they are getting ready to get the rest of the site up and start advertising for these units. Hopefully, because they only have 3 1/2 more floors before they are topped out...

Edited April 30, 2008 by Andyc545

[Charlotteman]

This is a sweet rendering. I agree with what others have said, the density of this area is going to be terrific. The juxtaposition of the three structures is quite pleasant too. 3rd Ward will never be the same after 12 is complete.

[RiverwoodCLT]

04/30/08

[atlrvr]

The building permit for the office tower was issued today...this includes work for the foundation as well as the frame....so this thing is ready to go vertical.

[dubone]

I once complained that the office tower was only 17 stories tall where they could easily build taller, but actually, given the fact that the smaller size seems to allow it to actually get built in decent timing, it turns out to be a good thing that this project is so modestly sized.

It really will have a strong presense even though we are used to seeing projects 2-3 times that height.

[roningreensboro]

04/30/08

Please forgive me if I missed it in earlier parts of the thread but, what is that structure? Is it part of the parking deck, office tower or what? I've just been trying to line it up with the renderings and can't seem to place it's purpose. Sorry again if it has already been mentioned.

[abttown]

roningreensboro, that is part of the parking deck currently being assembled. It will end up being quite large, maybe 8-12 stories tall? I think it is going to serve the entire Novare block so I guess it has to be huge. I just hope they get creative with it like Seventh Street Station instead of leaving it as is.

[cha]

it seems awfully set back from the street...

[UrbanFuture]

it seems awfully set back from the street...

Your post seems like having it set back that far is a bad thing? I think its great! I am not a fan of the way all the decks crowd lower (south) Church Street.

[grodney]

A couple clarifications on the parking deck:

- I believe that is the full height (around 7 stories, depending on where you are counting). I say this because there is an "end-wall" in place on the top. I'll try to get a picture in the next few days.

- I believe the full footprint will be much larger than what you currently see. There are footers already poured for all 4 sides, and those footers are much closer to 1st and to Mint. They are currently adding depth from Church toward Mint, and I expect them to come back and add width toward 1st in another pass. In the following picture, you can see the footers on the far left, close to 1st St. I'm not 100% sure on this, I just don't know why else those footers would be out there. In other words, it will be 3 sections wide, and they're only doing the first 2 right now.

Edited May 1, 2008 by grodney

[dubone]

From this older rendering, the deck is only to get the a top floor put in, so those walls are the heighest they will be. From the siteplan, it will come closer to 1st, but that is the ramp, so I guess they left it out of prefabbed structure for the level floors.