3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[Charlotte_native]

^I don't disagree with the math, just pointing out the litigation that would likely follow such a move. Nice nearby parking is not the same as adjacent parking. I think selling the units in whatever building that was the demise of the parking would also take a hit from the bad press that would follow. I can just see the headlines:

'Developer Plans New Project and Displaces Current Residents Parking'

'Boutiqe Hotel Offers No Onsite Parking for 2 Years'

'Commercial Tenants and Residents of Condo Tower Join Forces in Lawsuit'

Perhaps this is their plan, but what a marketing nightmare.

[Andyc545]

It would seem like a practical idea to build the deck the way they did and that Atlvr described as being temporary for the site to support a tower instead. That could explain why they aren't permanently selling off spaces for the Catalyst residents, also...

Edited September 24, 2008 by Andyc545

[TransCorpTech]

What's the pricing for 1 bedroom/2bedroom for Catalyst? How much is HOA?

[JonesQC]

What's the pricing for 1 bedroom/2bedroom for Catalyst? How much is HOA?

Youll need to go into the sales center to get most of the pricing info but units looking over the amenities deck start in the low 180's (possible to get in the high 170's if you use your buyer credit towards hte price of the unit and not on upgrades).

HOA is $0.33 per square foot I believe.

Anyone have an update on how many units they have sold? Last month I went in and they were still in the mid 60's (64 I believe). If they do not start selling more what are the chances they turn this into a rental complex until the market turns around? Or, what are the chances that they discount the units, even though they are pretty low per sq/ft compared to a lot of similar units in uptown?

[PwC Keith]

Youll need to go into the sales center to get most of the pricing info but units looking over the amenities deck start in the low 180's (possible to get in the high 170's if you use your buyer credit towards hte price of the unit and not on upgrades).

HOA is $0.33 per square foot I believe.

Anyone have an update on how many units they have sold? Last month I went in and they were still in the mid 60's (64 I believe). If they do not start selling more what are the chances they turn this into a rental complex until the market turns around? Or, what are the chances that they discount the units, even though they are pretty low per sq/ft compared to a lot of similar units in uptown?

I was in the sales center about a week or two ago and they were at 72 units sold (which has been the number for about the past month). As one of the 72 buyers, I very interested to know what they plan to do with the project as well as the park and baseball stadium.

[miklos]

If the parking deck is demolished in the future to allow a new building on the site, where would Catalyst/Twelve/440 S. Church people park? And don't forget, Picasso's and other street level businesses would be forced out too......

Forget these accursed, city-killing parking facilities. Let people rediscover what their feet are for and get healthy - and give mother earth a break in the bargain.

[origin.clt]

october 14 2008

[Andyc545]

I have a question for those that may have purchased a unit... Was there anything in the fine print regarding the contingency of the park being created? If for some reason 3rd Ward Park didn't get built, or was moved due to the land-swap not going through, the project would now have one less amenity in its front and the premium views (park views) would no longer be more premium than the back side. I know you can't guarantee views but it seems like this park was an intricate part to the success of this project.

[InitialD]

Taken today:

440 South Church is going vertical:

[rushcharlotte]

The parking deck is where the storage units are... Which are deeded. I think the above ground parking deck was an attempt to lower prices. Anybody seen what has happened with the Tampa Novare property where they converted it to rentals because they couldn't sell enough units. I read an article in the Tampa business journal.

[atlrvr]

The parking deck is where the storage units are... Which are deeded. I think the above ground parking deck was an attempt to lower prices. Anybody seen what has happened with the Tampa Novare property where they converted it to rentals because they couldn't sell enough units. I read an article in the Tampa business journal.

This may be why Crosland has pushed back construction on their 500 W Trade apartment building, to see if they will have competition in the rental market from Catalyst.

[Charlotte_native]

I was told a couple of years ago by a Novare rep that they build theri buildings with very few large units and few penthouses for just the kind of market we find ourselves in. They are at all times prepared to convert over to rental.

[InitialD]

440 South Church taken today:

[Charlotteman]

I'm wondering if this apparent economic slowdown might throw a clog in 12's wheels. Charlotte desperately needs those extra hotel rooms. Let's hope 12 stays on track. An ongoing chronic lack of hotel rooms will certainly stifle Charlotte's growth.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Charlotteman

[sleightofhand]

I'm hearing that Catalyst will in fact go to rentals. I wonder what happens to those that have purchased?

[atlrvr]

TWELVE stays on track? They have already said at earliest that they could begin is fall 2009, almost 2 years behind schedule. If Catalyst does in fact go rental, I think that is enough evidence that there isn't demand for 400 units of condos at present.

Perhaps if Catalyst is rental, Novare may see if any buyers want to roll their deposits into the proposed condos at TWELVE, but I can't imagine that they would move forward without significant presales. If anyone took them up on their offer, it would give them about 2 years to break ground. Perhaps there would be a housing recovery by then.

I think the biggest problem right now is timing. Buyers are afraid credit markets will be too tight in Spring 2009 to get mortgages, so they are standing on the sideline rather than risk losing deposits. This puts Novare in a hard spot, because they (and their equity fund/lines of credit) aren't going to wait to see if they pick up buyers at completion. They will have to commit to a rental strategy before any closings can occur, and I don't believe the purchase contracts allow them to defer closings for too long after completion.

In this regard, TWELVE becomes the more attractive option to buyers, as the general belief is credit should be flowing again in 2-3 years, and their is less risk involved. Also, 3rd Ward park should be getting underway soon, which will be a more tanglible amenity than the renderings and political squablings, and this should help spur sales.

In conclusion, if I was Novare, I was go ahead and announce Catalyst as a rental project, go ahead and officially announce TWELVE with renderings, offer to transfer existing contracts from Catalyst to TWELVE, and make construction of TWELVE contingent on achieving 50%-60% of units sold.

My 2 cents.

[JonesQC]

In conclusion, if I was Novare, I was go ahead and announce Catalyst as a rental project, go ahead and officially announce TWELVE with renderings, offer to transfer existing contracts from Catalyst to TWELVE, and make construction of TWELVE contingent on achieving 50%-60% of units sold.

My 2 cents.

Im in full agreement here but if Catalyst can't sell the units then TWELVE is going to have, in my opinion, a much more difficult time getting contracts down. Im going off a hunch here but of the 70 something units sold at Catalyst I would wager a majority of them are on the park side. This is a HUGE amenity and value creator for the Catalyst. If I were to transfer my down deposit to TWELVE my view is either the back of Catalyst or facing the Wachovia tower, neither of which IMHO come close to looking over Romare Bearden park.

In a perfect world Novare would go ahead and announce Catalyst as a rental property but they built in few protections to the contracts to buy themselves a little time.

1) "Seller shall also have the right from time to time by notice to Purchaser to extend the Outside CLosing Date for up to two (2) extension periods of up to sixty (60) days for each extension period. The closing shall take place at such specific reasonable time, date, and place as shall be designated by seller at least seven (7) days prior thereto. Seller reserves the right to schedule the closing date before the Outside Closing Date.

I know Novare is reputable and probably dosent want to tick off those 70 something who have contracts down but it is at least possible that they extend the closing dates 4 months and keep folks like myself hanging on a thread.

What is even more complicated is in the Mortgage hunt, lenders will only lock a rate for so long. I know this is a lot of speculation but when you have your own $$$ down you def start thinking of the possibilities.

[tiblerbrit]

Um, Twelve is next door to Catalyst on MLK. The office building is going in behind it on church street. In fact, twelve buyers might get a better view of the skyline since they are further away from it. Twelve would also provide hotel amenties.

[JonesQC]

You are correct, I was thinking of 440 S Church. My reasoning still stands, Catalyst will probably be on the lower entry point of these two projects and they still could hold out 120 days to see if credit begins to thaw.

I'm hearing that Catalyst will in fact go to rentals.

Not that I need names or numbers, but what source are you going off here? Im wondering if we are all going on hunches or anyone has more factual reasoning behind Catalyst moving to rental.

[AuLukey]

I know this may just be a passing idea, but couldn't Novare just alter their Twelve plan to include more hotel space and fewer condos, or just cut back on proposed condos in the tower then take the 70 contracts from Catalyst and change them over to Twelve contracts?

[Charlotteman]

I know this may just be a passing idea, but couldn't Novare just alter their Twelve plan to include more hotel space and fewer condos, or just cut back on proposed condos in the tower then take the 70 contracts from Catalyst and change them over to Twelve contracts?

I think this makes all the sense in the world. Build 12 as primarily a hotel.

[Guest]

I think this makes all the sense in the world. Build 12 as primarily a hotel.

No way, I think they need to wait and see how aloft, charlottes first midscale boutique hotel does, before they make a decision like that! Plus 150 is pretty standard for 12s around the country. We need lots of hotel rooms in charlotte, but I think I'd be a bit more happy with a Sheraton, Rennaisance, Hyatt, Radisson, Embassy Suites, etc. I think before we start recruiting all the boutiques in the world, we need more for the every man. So I'd be more happy with a shorter building with 150 hotel and 150 condos. Although 400 definately does sound nice...

Edited October 24, 2008 by Guest

[Spartan]

So I was checking out the Novare block the other day, and I noticed at 1st and Mint there appears to be some retail taking shape... or at least one good sized place. Maybe I've been out of the loop on this, but I was pleasantly surprised to see this development. Maybe next time I'll have my camera.

[boilerdown]

I called the Catalyst sales office to inquire about a possible conversion to rentals. Their response was that yes this is a contingency written into the contract that they are considering exercising. Because of January closing dates for the bottom floors of the building they will need to exercise this option within the next 30 days (end of November). If they do this all earnest deposits will be refunded. When I posed the question there wasn't any attempt to act surprised or to deny the rumor so I suspect they are leaning towards rental conversion. Right now they are sitting at about 70 units spoken for. The contract allows Novare to cancel the project if less than 150 units are sold up to 60 days before the first closing date.

[Mobuchu]

^That sounds like a done deal then. If they dont even have half of that 150 and the economy is on a down turn I'd say that it would be a better business decision to change to rentals. I assume they could open the building as rentals and switch over to condos, like 5th and poplar, when the economy and market changes. Not such a bad thing, kinda interesting having a highrise apt building in Charlotte.

And Spartan, last I heard that space was going to go to Picassos when its finished.