3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[Madison Parkitect]

hmmm, I didn't think of that. Makes me think that they didn't really think it through.

 

I did double check the email, they do say "Hot Food and Cold Beer & Soda will be available"

 

Better than Cold Food and Hot Beer & Soda

[HopHead]

Opening the Knights Stadium during Panthers tailgates is a home run (no pun intended, ok maybe so) and great use of a facility that would otherwise be empty in the fall. It would be a good idea if they broadcast Panthers pregame on the video boards outside the stadium too. Glad to see the Knights are open to doing other things besides baseball too. They are also having a Charlotte Craft Beer festival there in September as well. 

[mfowler12]

Golf courses are able to sell beer before noon so i know it's possible. I was told it was 10 am was their cut off.

[Matthew.Brendan]

This is _huge_

Heck I'll show up to the park just to hang out, never mind the Panthers game

[pgsinger]

Golf courses are able to sell beer before noon so i know it's possible. I was told it was 10 am was their cut off.

 

If they are doing that on a Sunday then they are just assuming no one will rat them out.  Here is a brief overview of the ABC laws in NC:  http://reports.abc.nc.gov/uploads/resources/43e805f02a254abd85cbc23135b17e97.pdf

 

Some are incredibly antiquated and should be changed.

[MilZ]

^I know of places that sell alcohol before noon on Sunday, just not as public as an open-air ballpark right beside an event as big as an NFL game.

[JoshuaDrown]

Progress on Mint and Graham moving along.

 

[atlrvr]

The Knights hotel/office project would have a great effect on 4th if it ever materializes....also makes that undeveloped lot at MLK and Graham (wrapped by the Duke deck) look in need of some love...oh yeah, and Gateway Station, we need that 

[navigator319]

I took the tour of Element yesterday and wanted to share my impressions and thoughts.  As for a blanket summary they are EXPENSIVE and quality is mediocre at best.  Guys we really need to start an investment group and throw one of theses things up   The rich and corporations just keep getting richer!  People are going to eat these up and in fact are already.  Currently floors 1-7 are leasing and 15% are leased.  Floors 8-15 open for move in's in Oct/Nov and the remaining they plan to have available by the end of the year.

 

Prices:

Studio - $1400-$1700 - 625sqft

1bd - $1650-2050 - 751-844 sqft

2bd - $2400-2900 - 1213-1309 sqft

 

Mandatory fees on top of rent:

Monthly amenity fee $25

Sewer/trash/pest bill monthly $15.75

Monthly pet fee of $15 optional obviously, but this seems like the best deal going LOL

 

Move in fees:

app fee $100

Admin fee $250

Refundable security of $250

Pet fee if applicable $375

 

 

PROS:

-Obviously location

-Nice residents club room on 6th floor

-Nice sized fitness center and fitness class room

-Saltwater pool - Nice pool deck with cabanas, grills, fireplace with large outdoor bar - BUT not like its going to be manned serving drinks - Gimmick???

-Large closets

-The back corner apartments that face Southend that are the glass corners are by far the best because of the glass.  The views tho I would say are least 'impressive', would have been better off the side facing the park

 

Cons: (keep in mind this is evaluated against the price would be paying)

-Pool deck looks into parking structures

-Lower floor apartments off the back crappy view until get to about 15th floor maybe

-Bathroom layouts in the apartments are odd and should be reversed

-Cheapest possible flooring, appliances, cabinets

-Bland sterile hallways

-Pointless 'business center' on first floor - This should be in the 6th floor club - The space used for first floor street retail if configured properly

-Some layouts with the balcony off the bedroom only - Personally would rather have off living room - what we all going to hang out in my bedroom????

 

Overall I do not get it.  Why would someone pay this rent for this quality when you could buy a condo for the same or cheaper mortgage payment and you OWN it!  I understand the arguments of money down and all, but all you need is 3.5%-5% and decent credit.  Are peoples credit that bad these days??  These people who rent them must have good jobs as it takes a nice sized income to afford this.

 

These will rent up and will have a full building in no time.  I must be missing something and I am certainly in the wrong business.

Edited September 6, 2014 by navigator319

[CLTProductions]

I have NO idea how they get away with rents like that. That is absolutely insane. Or is it that: they are gouging people like crazy now to lock them in while they can. They do this because they know they may/probably have to lower rents when all this competition comes online over the next year and a half?

 

I will say the bar is kind of cool, self service parties! Would love to have one at the pool where I live, I love bartending for friends.

 

As far as that "business center" is concerned, maybe one day when they realize NOONE is using it, they can convert to retail? Or is it not big enough for that?

 

What is curious though is, will it fill up? The VUE charges similar prices and they've had some well documented difficulty filling up that building.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jayvee

[birky]

I think a lot of people wind up in places like this when they first move to the city. They usually just don't know better.

[ES Charlotte]

3.5-5% down on a condo is not the norm... Unless it's FHA approved you're looking at 15-20% down.

 

Aside from that... Those prices are absurd. Given what you said about the finishes... It's well over the price point of the Vue which actually has decent finishes, and some of the bests amenities uptown.

 

I agree. You have to figure people just don't know better.

[HopHead]

Having been a landlord before, I'm not surprised by these rents. You would be amazed what people pay. Some of my renters had lived here several years so they weren't clueless either. All about location. Most 20 somethings are just thinking short term and will pay extra to not have a long term commitment or investment.

[ah59396]

The fact is; most of your cons, 20-something's don't care about, at all.

Layout - who cares, it's their 1st apartment in a big city

Cheap flooring and appliances - they just moved out of a dorm or old crapty house

Bland sterile hallways- they are indoors, so immediately a step up

Business center - no one uses these

Pool deck view- they are looking at the view in the pool, not outside of it.

Anyways, my point is, I agree with your cons for me personally, and would never pay these prices. But a 22 year old guy with a brand new BOA job doesn't give a crap. He lives uptown next to the baseball field and has stainless steel appliances and Dali posters on the wall. His life is complete.

[Stitch Jones]

These apartments are really expensive and I believe they are going to have to come down in price soon.  I live next door in Catalyst and I'm paying under $2000 for a two bedroom.  I've already seen numerous people getting tours at Catalyst after leaving Element and saying there is no way they would pay what Element is asking for.  They might as well live in the Vue and get better finishes.  Add to that the two new apartments coming next year and these guys WILL be dropping their prices.

[navigator319]

I have NO idea how they get away with rents like that. That is absolutely insane. Or is it that: they are gouging people like crazy now to lock them in while they can. They do this because they know they may/probably have to lower rents when all this competition comes online over the next year and a half?

 

I will say the bar is kind of cool, self service parties! Would love to have one at the pool where I live, I love bartending for friends.

 

As far as that "business center" is concerned, maybe one day when they realize NOONE is using it, they can convert to retail? Or is it not big enough for that?

 

What is curious though is, will it fill up? The VUE charges similar prices and they've had some well documented difficulty filling up that building.

 

Its too small now to be anything other than it is or be more admin space.

 

3.5-5% down on a condo is not the norm... Unless it's FHA approved you're looking at 15-20% down.

 

Aside from that... Those prices are absurd. Given what you said about the finishes... It's well over the price point of the Vue which actually has decent finishes, and some of the bests amenities uptown.

 

I agree. You have to figure people just don't know better.

 

I'm not so sure it is not the norm.  3.5% down is FHA yes and every property I have looked at is FHA approved but some definitely aren't.  Also 5% private bank seems to be pretty standard these days.  I came to CLT 2.5 years ago did 5% in Trademark.  Some family came down shortly after did 5% in StoneGrove off Arrowood.  I had two friends move down and both did 5% one in Avenue and the other in Brightwalk.  Also a friend of mine still in Boston just did a 5% up their on something much higher priced.

 

The fact is; most of your cons, 20-something's don't care about, at all.

Layout - who cares, it's their 1st apartment in a big city

Cheap flooring and appliances - they just moved out of a dorm or old crapty house

Bland sterile hallways- they are indoors, so immediately a step up

Business center - no one uses these

Pool deck view- they are looking at the view in the pool, not outside of it.

Anyways, my point is, I agree with your cons for me personally, and would never pay these prices. But a 22 year old guy with a brand new BOA job doesn't give a crap. He lives uptown next to the baseball field and has stainless steel appliances and Dali posters on the wall. His life is complete.

 

You think a young 20 something can afford this?  What does a BofA start at I was thinking need minimum 80k to afford those rents.  I remember my first place out of school in Boston was making 40k and struggling to pay my $1k a month rent which was 30 minutes out from the city in Framingham.  Thank god that lasted only 1 year!

Edited September 6, 2014 by navigator319

[CLTProductions]

The fact is; most of your cons, 20-something's don't care about, at all.

Layout - who cares, it's their 1st apartment in a big city

Cheap flooring and appliances - they just moved out of a dorm or old crapty house

Bland sterile hallways- they are indoors, so immediately a step up

Business center - no one uses these

Pool deck view- they are looking at the view in the pool, not outside of it.

Anyways, my point is, I agree with your cons for me personally, and would never pay these prices. But a 22 year old guy with a brand new BOA job doesn't give a crap. He lives uptown next to the baseball field and has stainless steel appliances and Dali posters on the wall. His life is complete.

I'm a 20something year old that works for BofA and I would NEVER EVER pay that to live there. However, I know better and UP keeps me informed of the stupidity out there. 

 

And to agree with the point below, I make decent to good money with the bank and I could not afford those rents. I could if I wanted to live paycheck to paycheck, but those are really steep, not sure how a first time renter would afford that.

 

You think a young 20 something can afford this?  What does a BofA start at I was thinking need minimum 80k to afford those rents.  I remember my first place out of school in Boston was making 40k and struggling to pay my $1k a month rent which was 30 minutes out from the city in Framingham.  Thank god that lasted only 1 year!

 

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jayvee

[ES Charlotte]

I'm not so sure it is not the norm.  3.5% down is FHA yes and every property I have looked at is FHA approved but some definitely aren't.  Also 5% private bank seems to be pretty standard these days.  I came to CLT 2.5 years ago did 5% in Trademark.  Some family came down shortly after did 5% in StoneGrove off Arrowood.  I had two friends move down and both did 5% one in Avenue and the other in Brightwalk.  Also a friend of mine still in Boston just did a 5% up their on something much higher priced.

 

 

There are exceptions, but there's also limits to how many can be FHA approved etc. in condo buildings.  Unless things have drastically changed in the last year, I'd say it's still pretty difficult to get by with that little down.

 

And I totally agree about 20 somethings not being able to afford that... If they made 50k a year, a 1 bed (starting 1 bed) would be roughly 40% of their income. I don't know what newcomers make, but 50K seems pretty reasonable.

[CLTProductions]

And I totally agree about 20 somethings not being able to afford that... If they made 50k a year, a 1 bed (starting 1 bed) would be roughly 40% of their income. I don't know what newcomers make, but 50K seems pretty reasonable.

50k is towards the upper end for anyone coming out of school (in terms of averages). But yeah I would say this is very very unaffordable for my demographic (mid-to-early 20s)

[Norm2]

$1,400 a month is just absolutely ridiculous for Charlotte. I make $30,000 a year and can barely afford to live on my own with all my bills. I would never pay as much rent as this place is asking. I could just save up money and just buy my own condo instead.

[15895]

Progress on Mint and Graham moving along.

 

 

 

 

I was aggrivated when these were announced. That was before it seemed, though, uptown was getting any highrise buildings. Now we have several in the works, I am now completely fine with these projects and can't wait for them to be built. It will make Panthers stadium feel much more urban.

[navigator319]

I was aggravated when these were announced. That was before it seemed, though, uptown was getting any highrise buildings. Now we have several in the works, I am now completely fine with these projects and can't wait for them to be built. It will make Panthers stadium feel much more urban.

 

seems to me they left money on the table.  idk why you build 5/6 floors when you have the views these have and thus the premium.   Even if you don't want to go high rise you would think 10/12 floors would be better ROI

Edited September 7, 2014 by navigator319

[Niner National]

seems to me they left money on the table.  idk why you build 5/6 floors when you have the views these have and thus the premium.   Even if you don't want to go high rise you would think 10/12 floors would be better ROI

Can't do stick built that high. Doing concrete or steel construction would increase costs quite a bit.

[atlrvr]

I'm confused by all the people saying Element's rents are too high, or that people would be crazy to pay them.  It seems the evidence is that people are leasing them.  It's not like the condo boom where the investor demand masked the true demand.  People are only leasing apartment because they want to live there.

 

There is also a mis-reported notion on here that The Vue is struggling.  A guy we transferred down from NY paid over $2.50/sf for his space on a very low floor (4th or 5th) and tells me the building is basically full.  Lease rates are about 30% higher now than when they first started marketing them for rent in 2012.  200 new leases a year is very good for an apartment community.

 

The idea that paying that high of rent smacks of me saying "i would never pay $1mm+ to live on a lakefront, because i can live 1 mile away for $400k and have just as nice of a house and buy a boat and rent a dock"...I think we should be estatic that urban living commands that high of a premium because its indicative that A) Charlotte's urban neighborhoods are desirable enough to command such his rents, and B) if you like new high rises, you kind of need rents to be that high to justify land and construction costs, so yay??!!

[CLTProductions]

I'm confused by all the people saying Element's rents are too high, or that people would be crazy to pay them.  It seems the evidence is that people are leasing them.  It's not like the condo boom where the investor demand masked the true demand.  People are only leasing apartment because they want to live there.

 

There is also a mis-reported notion on here that The Vue is struggling.  A guy we transferred down from NY paid over $2.50/sf for his space on a very low floor (4th or 5th) and tells me the building is basically full.  Lease rates are about 30% higher now than when they first started marketing them for rent in 2012.  200 new leases a year is very good for an apartment community.

 

The idea that paying that high of rent smacks of me saying "i would never pay $1mm+ to live on a lakefront, because i can live 1 mile away for $400k and have just as nice of a house and buy a boat and rent a dock"...I think we should be estatic that urban living commands that high of a premium because its indicative that A) Charlotte's urban neighborhoods are desirable enough to command such his rents, and B) if you like new high rises, you kind of need rents to be that high to justify land and construction costs, so yay??!!

Agreed it's good for the city, not so good for uptown renters like myself. Just trying to have my cake and eat it too   

Edited September 8, 2014 by Jayvee