3rd Ward Midrise Projects

[pgsinger]

I'm confused by all the people saying Element's rents are too high, or that people would be crazy to pay them.  It seems the evidence is that people are leasing them.  It's not like the condo boom where the investor demand masked the true demand.  People are only leasing apartment because they want to live there.

 

There is also a mis-reported notion on here that The Vue is struggling.  A guy we transferred down from NY paid over $2.50/sf for his space on a very low floor (4th or 5th) and tells me the building is basically full.  Lease rates are about 30% higher now than when they first started marketing them for rent in 2012.  200 new leases a year is very good for an apartment community.

 

The idea that paying that high of rent smacks of me saying "i would never pay $1mm+ to live on a lakefront, because i can live 1 mile away for $400k and have just as nice of a house and buy a boat and rent a dock"...I think we should be estatic that urban living commands that high of a premium because its indicative that A) Charlotte's urban neighborhoods are desirable enough to command such his rents, and B) if you like new high rises, you kind of need rents to be that high to justify land and construction costs, so yay??!!

 

Agreed 100%.  Also, I think the expectation that all these places are rented by people in their early 20's is completely wrong.  I know many late 20 y/o's to early/mid 30 y/o's, including doctors and lawyers, that are renting in places just like this.  Most are new to the area or have enough disposable income to save on top of these rents to buy a house in a 1-3 years.  I also know a number of consultants and contractors that have short term jobs here and get a housing stipend in addition to their pay.  

 

Also, I do not think comparing the average starting salary of a college grad to the average starting salary of a college grad living in Uptown is apples-to-apples.  The people paying these rents are necessarily above average.  I think you would have to look at the average starting salary in certain niche segments of finance, but also look at the numbers and the concentration of those jobs in CLT (assuming you are looking at national averages for the first part of this analysis).

 

I am also curious about what people think about one other point.  It seems to me, that these buildings will be rented one way or another.  If we get a ton of buildings built and then the apartment market collapses, the rents will simply go down and we will still get the same number of people in Uptown.  Unless you have a condo or are one of these developers, I don't really see much downside to the apartment boom.  We all want retail in Uptown, which means we all want people living in Uptown, so we necessarily all want lots of big residential buildings.  And that is roughly what we are getting.  Obviously, we all want this to be done intelligently, reserving areas for parks, retail and mass transit.  But don't we just need to hope that our city planner recognize that at some point they may have to use zoning to reserve certain key areas for retail, even if means those areas are not developed for 5-10 more years?

[CLTProductions]

I am also curious about what people think about one other point.  It seems to me, that these buildings will be rented one way or another.  If we get a ton of buildings built and then the apartment market collapses, the rents will simply go down and we will still get the same number of people in Uptown.  Unless you have a condo or are one of these developers, I don't really see much downside to the apartment boom.  We all want retail in Uptown, which means we all want people living in Uptown, so we necessarily all want lots of big residential buildings.  And that is roughly what we are getting.  Obviously, we all want this to be done intelligently, reserving areas for parks, retail and mass transit.  But don't we just need to hope that our city planner recognize that at some point they may have to use zoning to reserve certain key areas for retail, even if means those areas are not developed for 5-10 more years?

That is a good point, even if rents go down, I will venture to guess that the developers/renters are still making a ton of money. More apartments yay!

[AuLukey]

Does anyone know what the mass of concrete southwest of Chupitos was for?

 

Seems like an ideal space to clear out for use before Knights or Panthers games.  Maybe some kind of place for kiosks or pre-game events.  Thanks to the power center behind it and the strip along graham, there isn't much hope for any true development along this stretch, it just seems so unbelievable dead aside from when they block off lanes on graham street on Panther game days.

[49er]

Looks like an old bridge bulkhead

[tozmervo]

Went into historial aerials for 1960, and there is indeed a railroad that goes across Graham at that location. 

 

http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=1.26570606693696E-05&lat=35.227536986461&lon=-80.8509873244113&year=1960

[CLTProductions]

Went into historial aerials for 1960, and there is indeed a railroad that goes across Graham at that location. 

 

http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=1.26570606693696E-05&lat=35.227536986461&lon=-80.8509873244113&year=1960

Awesome investigating, on a side note, I know it has been said 100000 times but it is absolutely INSANE how much 3rd ward has changed since 2007. Mind blowing.

[Third Strike]

Went into historial aerials for 1960, and there is indeed a railroad that goes across Graham at that location. 

 

http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=1.26570606693696E-05&lat=35.227536986461&lon=-80.8509873244113&year=1960

 

Wow, I like how that explains the diagonal fence that used to divide the parcel where the Woodfield is being built. That was roughly the path where the railroad used to exist.

[InitialD]

The Mint last Sunday:

[JoshuaDrown]

^^The 3rd floor is almost done now, I was going to grab a shot this morning from The Vue, but the weather was so crappy. Now that they are framing this moving along quickly.

[DMann]

Here is some information I came across regarding a development by the Elmwood-Pinewood Cemetery on Cedar Street:

 

The Boulevard Company that owns the land behind Cedar Oaks.  They are planning to break ground on a 4 story 82 unit apartment complex with in the next couple of months.  The complex will be mostly 1 bedroom and studios with a pool, fitness center and surface parking.  Rents will be comparable to Post Gateway across the way.

[Guest]

Here is some information I came across regarding a development by the Elmwood-Pinewood Cemetery on Cedar Street:

 

The Boulevard Company that owns the land behind Cedar Oaks.  They are planning to break ground on a 4 story 82 unit apartment complex with in the next couple of months.  The complex will be mostly 1 bedroom and studios with a pool, fitness center and surface parking.  Rents will be comparable to Post Gateway across the way.

Yea... this project just keeps getting smaller and smaller. It was once a 12-15 floor apartment building with structured parking. Now its tiny with surface. I posted a site plan somewhere in these pages a few months ago.

[go_vertical]

A decent number of park facing units in Catalyst have patio furniture on the balconies. I counted around 30 with the highest being on the 9th floor. On the 11th there was still interior work being done.

[km1789]

A decent number of park facing units in Catalyst have patio furniture on the balconies. I counted around 30 with the highest being on the 9th floor. On the 11th there was still interior work being done.

 

Do you mean Element?

[go_vertical]

Yeah, my bad there. Sad thing is I was sitting in the park looking at the building as I was typing that and still messed it up.

[Guest]

I have 0 inside information. But i think 3rd and poplar is the "Next Big Thing" That we will be talking about in the next few months. Hopefully we will see a rendering in the next 6-10 weeks.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Guest

[go_vertical]

That is the Graystar project right? I've been anxious to hear more about that one.

[Guest]

That is the Graystar project right? I've been anxious to hear more about that one.

Yes, grey star, they are very advanced in the "process" of making their project happen. I think in the next 6 months we will have A 32 floor apartment building with retail under construction at 3rd and poplar,

[15895]

Yes, grey star, they are very advanced in the "process" of making their project happen. I think in the next 6 months we will have A 32 floor apartment building with retail under construction at 3rd and poplar,

I can't decide which is more exciting... North Tryon or South Tryon/3rd Ward.

I feel like the boom from 2008 is now really coming together. Like all the construction from the 2008 boom really set the foundation for this round of construction.

Edited October 13, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[Guest]

I can't decide which is more exciting... North Tryon or South Tryon/3rd Ward.

I feel like the boom from 2008 is now really coming together. Like all the construction from the 2008 boom really set the foundation for this round of construction.

Shhhhhhhh, I said that in 2007, and then the inevitable happened. It's all going to wind down soon, then people will have to focus on more responsible development. Personally I'm a big fan of the smaller infill projects, but I'll take a couple 20-30 floor buildings where I can get them. I really think Greystar will be the last high rise residential in 3rd ward for a few years. I think skyhouse 2 and crescent on stonewall wil be the last residential high rises in uptown until 2017 Edited October 13, 2014 by Guest

[go_vertical]

If Greystar, Skyhouse 2, and Crescent materialize then I would consider that a pretty solid win for this round. These combined 300 South Tryon and Skyhouse 1 will continue to push the skyline to the next level. But I agree, the small projects that are greatly increasing the density throughout the city are the real winners here.

[15895]

If Greystar, Skyhouse 2, and Crescent materialize then I would consider that a pretty solid win for this round. These combined 300 South Tryon and Skyhouse 1 will continue to push the skyline to the next level. But I agree, the small projects that are greatly increasing the density throughout the city are the real winners here.

And Tryon Place And SREE hotels, and Dual branded Epicentre hotel and Embassy Suites. I don't think Portman is unrealistic Either.

I would also consider Element part of this round also. I am excited about the smaller infill also and renovations

Edited October 13, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[cltbwimob]

And Tryon Place And SREE hotels, and Dual branded Epicentre hotel and Embassy Suites. I don't think Portman is unrealistic Either.

I would also consider Element part of this round also. I am excited about the smaller infill also and renovations

I'll add that I hope the 30+ story residential at sixth and college makes it through this round in addition to the projects mentioned already. Edited October 13, 2014 by cltbwimob

[ah59396]

The Mint (today)

 

[CLTProductions]

The Mint (today)

 

1 (2).jpg

I walk by it every day, and am very interested in living there on my next move, but are there full scale renderings/plans of the entire site??? When i walk by I have NOOO idea where they're going to fit all this: "sky terrace, pool, fitness center, multiple courtyards"

[Guest]

I walk by it every day, and am very interested in living there on my next move, but are there full scale renderings/plans of the entire site??? When i walk by I have NOOO idea where they're going to fit all this: "sky terrace, pool, fitness center, multiple courtyards"

I've posted site plans somewhere on this site. I can repost... If I can find it... 

The courtyards, and sky terraces will be on both sides of the property, facing the courthouse, and graham street, in the middle of the block. 

 

Edit I remembered wrong. there will be two courtyards on the graham street side of the property. So the building will be shaped like an E. 

Edited October 14, 2014 by Guest