111 Seaboard Condos

[orulz]

It's not a revolutionary design by any means, but it certainly is a neat little building in an up and coming part of town. I kind of like the 4-5 story low rise scale for that part of town.

I'm a bit disappointed that there won't be anything facing Peace street; now that the lot behind it is getting developed, that lot probably won't see anything other than a BP sign for a long time.

[Jones_]

I also like it...too bad about the condition of Peace St on this side and the State Gov't side....YSU in their wisdom leaves these features out of the rendering. While this building is good for the City it is a shame it will never really tie into the city very well...I like Seaboard but it lacks streets and associated street considerations for its buildings, Sunflowers has always been a cute little operation and its environmentally sound to reuse the Hardees building but Hardees never had plans to build anything but a parking lot and drivethru around its building....Peace will likely never put anything of a commercial nature on the Salisbury corner....I doubt even the unbuilt AIA building will address the street well....with Blount street commons and 111 it is a great improvement for the area though.

[yoga]

The N&O was in error in the recent article regarding the condo market downtown and what was going on with 111 Seaboard.

The Little Bird Gazette ( ) tells me 111 Seaboard is not on hold, the latest estimate for demolition of the old insurance bldg is April. Permit applications for the 53 condos are being submitted this week & next.

They're also going to go as green as possible with interior finishes and cabinetry.

As for the views, the units on the short side end and inside of the 'L' do face downtown. The upper floors having the better view than the lower, since the Shell station is there, but maybe not too bad since the elevation for the 111 site is several feet higher than Shell. The units on the long side end (facing west) and along the outside of the 'L' face Peace College, the Seaboard shops, and look out over the Cotton Mill toward 5 points - rolling hills with trees. (And cooler in the summer due to facing North.)

[yoga]

The 111 Seaboard project has been cancelled, citing "...changing circumstances and uncertain timing, we are re-evaluating 111 Seaboard..."

All the reservation holders' $ is being refunded & they are released from the reservation agreement. Who knows what the real story is, but marketing was far less than stellar. My guess is that someone may have offered to purchase the site. Or maybe aliens have a burial ground there and they're superstitious.

[dmccall]

Yoga, thanks for the info on this (I hijacked your story - hope you don't mind).

Anways...Smedes York is clearly involved and excited about downtown. At Thursday night's transit meeting, it was obvious that he is on board (couldn't resist) with the offerings that rail transit can have for the future in the Triangle. Me things that maaayyybe this isn't the end of him in downtown Raleigh. He saw how easily Cross Williams was able to put together the Powerhouse project. I wonder, just wonder, if he is one of the people nipping at Russell Allen's ear to open Site 4 bidding back up. The first name that came to mind was Charles Winston, but York has dabbled in some hotels here and there.

He's approaching 70 years and though he was on the NCSU basketball team and was our mayor, he's always kind of lived in his father's shadow. All he's ever done is keep the ol' ship afloat, but I wonder if, in a Bill Clintonian way, he's starting to think about his legacy. Don't forget that he's just like the Williams and Winstons. They've always seen downtown as a bum hangout and a place to go to church. Now that towers are being erected and younger people are getting all the limelight, I just wonder if he is getting interested about making his mark on downtown.

I say this because I was shocked to see him on the panel the other night. He's run a very sleepy, profitable real estate firm for all of these years, and you just don't see status quo to the hilt like him embracing mass transit. He's already seen a few friends die recently, and maybe mortality is starting to nip at him. Maybe George (37yo son) is nipping at him to get into downtown.

Well, we'll see. You just got my head scratching about this. The Site 4 news is very, VERY interesting and the timing of all of this is just too strange.

[Jones_]

Who knows what the real story is, but marketing was far less than stellar.

[yoga]

^ I dunno - I think if it's designed well, any site can work. What would you like to see on that site?

Dana - no worries! And interesting speculation on Smedes & George. Wow Smedes is pushing 70??!

[DPK]

I think the site can work, however it needs some heavy retooling.

Something eventually is going to have to be done about the Capital intersection at Peace. It backs up all the time. Heck, something really needs to be done with all of Capital Blvd, but that's another fruitless topic.

[ChiefJoJo]

Sorry to hear that yoga. I wish I could say I was surprised. To do a "proper" condo project over there, they need to obtain the gas station parcel and expand the footprint. As designed, I thought this was sort of a niche project, and maybe they could get by keeping the prices low. Sure, it's close to Seaboard Station, but it's also close to Capital Blvd and the rail line, and would you rather live at Bount St Commons if you were in the 200-300k price range? I think they have condos in that range over there, and it's still within walking distance to Seaboard.

[JeffC]

the Capital Blvd. bridge over Peace Street is in poor condition and is on the DOT bridge replacement list...don't know the timeline, though.

When I saw this thread pop up again, I thought someone was going to report the project was moving forward, because over the last week or two, a guy in a truck has been salvaging metal sheeting off the roof of the building at corner of Salisbury and Seaboard...wonder if the guy was just STEALING the sheet metal? (he was using a truck with an elevator type attachment in broad daylight...).

[yoga]

I asked one of the roof guys what was up & they said they were making some repairs so the building could be rented out.

ChiefJoJo, I'm used to the trains & Capital blvd - I'd actually rather be next to the tracks than Capital. I don't love the location of the Cotton Mill, that's for sure. One thought we had on the 111 project was that it would be really nice to have access to a 2 way street and a light instead of having folk flip us off when we turn in to the Cotton Mill lot. But 'twas not to be.

I've been checking the Blount Street website for plans and pricing, but either I can't find it, or it isn't posted yet. Maybe I'll just walk over to the office and get the scoop. It is an appealing location, I have to say.

[Jones_]

Blount Street Commons has pricing if you go to the office. I think the row houses are a good deal for the square footage, but Person's Corner is pricey. What would I like to see at the 111 site? The building itself was fine, I just dont think any housing project will work on that site. Seaboard Ave is wide and unattrative. Peace is even wider and more unattractive with huge traffic counts and no pedestrian safety measures (medians, only one crosswalk at Halifax, bus shelters). I think a ten story glass office building with retail fronting Peace, Salisbury and Seaboard makes the most sense there. As Jojo said, really the gas station site needs to be included but that must be one of the busiest stations in the city at rush hour.

[ChiefJoJo]

Blount Street Commons has pricing if you go to the office. I think the row houses are a good deal for the square footage, but Person's Corner is pricey. What would I like to see at the 111 site? The building itself was fine, I just dont think any housing project will work on that site. Seaboard Ave is wide and unattrative. Peace is even wider and more unattractive with huge traffic counts and no pedestrian safety measures (medians, only one crosswalk at Halifax, bus shelters). I think a ten story glass office building with retail fronting Peace, Salisbury and Seaboard makes the most sense there. As Jojo said, really the gas station site needs to be included but that must be one of the busiest stations in the city at rush hour.

[DPK]

Seabord Ave is a perfect candidate for a road diet. Allow for 2-way operation with parallel parking, but otherwise widen out the sidewalks thru there. The site will be developed eventually. With the new AIA site just across Peace/Wilmington St, and the rest of BSC getting underway, it's only a matter of time. The 111 site and the current Sunflowers site (maybe Peace Coll will want this?) will become more valuable with Peace frontage and help bridge the pedestrian connection between BSC & Seaboard Station.

[ncwebguy]

Hopefully when the Person/Peace corner of Blount Street Commons comes on line, there will be more interest in 111 Seabaord. Or the lending market will improve. However, I don't see that happening to the extent to make this project feasable, if projects like the Lafayette and The Raleigh (Reynolds family) can not get financing.

It would probably have a better chance if it was developed in conjunction with a parking deck wrapped with shops and apartments on the Sunflowers block. The "road diet" could come by closing off the somewhat redundant North Salisbury between Peace and Seaboard. There is less truck traffic than in the rail/warehouse days, but large trucks still deliver supplies to the garden center, Capitol City Grocery, Ace Hardware, etc.

With the Shell gas station out of the picture, Seaboard could come right up to Peace Street. But with a lot of car traffic and few gas stations near by, it probably isn't going anywhere any time soon, unless we shift to electric cars in the next 5-10 years.

[DPK]

With the Shell gas station out of the picture, Seaboard could come right up to Peace Street. But with a lot of car traffic and few gas stations near by, it probably isn't going anywhere any time soon, unless we shift to electric cars in the next 5-10 years.

[dmccall]

Not to mention that it's one of the few gas stations left inside the beltline.

[ncwebguy]

111 was a "fringe of downtown" building to begin with... I thought the cheap(er) land would make the units affordable and add some income diversity to the core. But I guess they'll have to settle for apartments in the Tucker and forget about building equity for the foreseeable future.

For gas stations, the Shell is expendable, but catching the state goverment workers on their way home is too good to pass up. There's a BP at the end of Peace at Person, a Exxon at Peace and St. Mary's and a Hess just around the corner on Capitol before the Wade Ave exit. Near that is a Shell on Wake Forest Road just east of Capitol, and the BP at Wake Forest and Lassiter Mill. And the two stations in Five Points.

The only other corridor that has multiple ones are Western/MLK, with a few in/near french fry valley and a station at the MLK Kroger. There are three gas stations on outbound New Bern from Rock Quarry to Enloe HS. And two on Six Forks near Wake Forest Road and one on Atlantic near Six Fork's end. One gas station did close and I think isn't coming back on Wake Forest near Crabtree Creek.

I think gas stations are more "appropriate" on Capitol vs. Peace Street. Is there any reason why there isn't one on the inbound side inside 440? There are plenty north of the beltline, but none on Capital itself. Somewhere off the service road between Wade and Wake Forest? Carolina Custom Golf is calling it quits. Or maybe across from the bowling alley near Crabtree Blvd? They just leveled a buliding and cleared a bunch of land there...

[miamiblue]

I think the Shell is probably the best combination of convenient location and price out of the stations listed by ncwebguy. This is the station that I frequent most often, because the Hess on Capital is just not convenient at all despite its normally good prices (probably the reason for the price scheme). But the Shell is convenient for people going in both directions on Peace, people coming out of downtown, etc. I never go to the gas station closest to me (St. Mary's and Peace) because the price is ridiculous, but I always know I'll get a decent price at the Shell. Not to mention, the station is kept pretty clean and they are always jamming the music.

I know that's not a good enough reason for it to stay if there are better options for that land, but I do think it would be a good excuse for the other stations to let their prices inflate without competition. The Shell definitely fills a niche.