Why don't we have _____?

[Spartan]

Thats true. I wouldn't mind seeing one or two more tall buildings around to give downtown some more personality and some more variety, but I'd like to see the ones that we have now filled up first. ESA and Dennys Tower both have two floors of free space, and a spec building will be going up soon on E Main.

I also think that more infill/low-midrise (4-6 storey) buildings are important for Spartanburg to establish a denser feel thorugh out the core area.

[krazeeboi]

Spec building? I hadn't heard of that.

[NCMike1981]

spec buildings were popular in the building boom of the 1980's where developers would build and get the tenants later, whereas now most developers seem to land tenants, usually filling up a portion of the available space before building.

[Spartan]

They are still used today. Spartanburg just landed a huge EchoStar distribution facility partially because we had some good speculative buildings available. There were a number of other factors involved though. The developer who is building that is banking on the fact that Spartanburg isn't living up to its potential, and that 'if you build it, they will come' mentality. He is one of the most successful developers in Spartanburg, so I am guessing he knows what he is doing.

[krazeeboi]

Oh I know what a spec building is, but I hadn't heard of one coming to Spartanburg. Sorry for the confusion.

[Spartan]

Many thanks to UP member and write for the Journal John Boyanoski for writing an article about the lack of chains in this weeks Journal. Our recent debate about Olive Garnen may have been the idea behind that. One correction though is that Linens-n-things was in Spartanburg before the one at Greenridge opened, and I thought that Anderson's was there before that.

Anyway, the article itself was pretty good. It compares the Upstate to Charleston, and points out how the multi nodal aspect of our market has delayed some chains from moving here. I think that this is a situation to where if you build it, they will come. People here want good chain stores just like everywhere else.

We have:

62 of the top 100 retailers in the Upstate

64 of the top 100 fastest growing retailers in the Upstate

68 of the top 100 restaurant chains in the Upstate

What I want to know, is how many are in Spartanburg? I'm guessing its in the 40s. And why don't we have a Bloom yet?

[johnboyanoski]

I will try to get the numbers for Spartanburg later this week. I was kind of surprised that Spartanburg got some stores slower than Anderson being Spartanburg is a much larger market.

Also, I was really surprised by the restaurant breakdown. We had I think 45 of the top 50 chain restaurants. I am not sure what that says about the Upstate.

[Spartan]

Thanks, John. That is most appreciated. We have always wondered about that situation with Anderson. The only thing I can come up with is that Anderson draws on a larger regional population pulling in a lot of northeast Georgia where Spartanburg only has Union, Cherokee, Polk, and maybe Rutherford counties. Plus Anderson doesn't have a strong submarket. The vast majority of its unique chain stores are located on one road in Anderson: Clemson Blvd. In Spartanburg you have split markets which spreads things out a bit. Thats just speculation on my part though.

[johnboyanoski]

Thanks, John. That is most appreciated. We have always wondered about that situation with Anderson. The only thing I can come up with is that Anderson draws on a larger regional population pulling in a lot of northeast Georgia where Spartanburg only has Union, Cherokee, Polk, and maybe Rutherford counties. Plus Anderson doesn't have a strong submarket. The vast majority of its unique chain stores are located on one road in Anderson: Clemson Blvd. In Spartanburg you have split markets which spreads things out a bit. Thats just speculation on my part though.

[interestedexpat]

I can't say for sure since I'm not a major retailer, but i think you are hitting the nail on the head about the retail in Anderson vs Spartanburg. Many of Anderson's stores would not survive it it weren't for weekend traffic. Friday - Sunday the retailers are packed with cars from all over Anderson County, Oconee County and various GA counties. Restaurants that are empty during the week are full on the weekends. Not only does Anderson benefit from the surrounding counties, but also from weekend traffic generated by Clemson games during football season and lake traffic during the summers.

Also - I don't know about drive time, but Greenville and Spartanburg 'feel' more connected and Anderson feels a little more separate. Is it possible that a retailer puts a location in eastern G'ville and assumes it also serves western Spartanburg?

My suspicion is that many of these retailers would do well in Spartanburg at the expense of their G'ville location. Whereas, the Anderson location doesn't really impact the G'ville one. Could that be part of it?

[Spartan]

Perhaps. Greenville takes in western Spartanburg County much like it takes in Northeastern Anderson and Southeastern Pickens. To what extent this impacts restaurants and stores in Spartanburg I can't say. The population it takes in can't be that much in comparison to the rest of the county and other counties we draw on.

Except for the largest chain stores that will only locate in Greenville anyway, I would think that Spartanburg would be just as lively as Anderson. Part of the problem may also be that we have our largest shopping district spread out on 3 different major roads (Ezell/Abernathy/29, E/W Blackstock Rd, and Reidville Rd) whereas Anderson's is only Clemson Blvd- one road, but much longer than Spartanburg. My perception is that many businesses choose to locate in places in large part due to traffic counts (as well as other things like demographics, etc), and this split spreads out the traffic (in theory).

[johnboyanoski]

Also - I don't know about drive time, but Greenville and Spartanburg 'feel' more connected and Anderson feels a little more separate. Is it possible that a retailer puts a location in eastern G'ville and assumes it also serves western Spartanburg?

[Spartan]

I think its exit 72 for I-585, and 4B on the old 85. So you're talking about 10 miles closer. So maybe you're onto something there. I wouldn't think that 10 miles would make that much of a difference. Say that is the case, that would have to mean that there is some sort of distance factor that relates to the size of a market in relation to another one in determining which stores to locate in certain places. Maybe that's the case? I don't think its an effort to NOT put something in Spartanburg.

I predict within 10-15 years, the only undeveloped piece of land on I-85 between Greenville and Spartanburg will be that tract at the airport. We keep hearing about new things all the time...

[Spartan]

I was thinking about this today... we've had somewhat of a chain-store "awakening" in the past year. Think about the new chains that have opened up their first locations in Spartanburg (or are planning to) within the past year or so:

Bruegger's Bagels

Starbucks (2)

Jason's Deli

Firehouse Subs

Olive Garden

Chief's Wings

Kohls

Food Lion

CostCo

Bloom

Local

Pink Bee

Justin's Steakhouse

Copper River Grill

Chains Lost

Long Horn

Anything else?

[goodbye]

Wasn't there word that Bloom will finally be coming to Spartanburg?

[Spartan]

^ Yes I think so. I don't recall where they decided to locate though. I'll go back and add that to the list. Thanks.

[roads-scholar]

I was thinking about this today... we've had somewhat of a chain-store "awakening" in the past year. Think about the new chains that have opened up their first locations in Spartanburg (or are planning to) within the past year or so:

Bruegger's Bagels

Starbucks (2)

Jason's Deli

Firehouse Subs

Olive Garden

Chief's Wings

Kohls

Food Lion

CostCo

Bloom

Local

Pink Bee

Justin's Steakhouse

Copper River Grill

Chains Lost

Long Horn

Anything else?

[Spartan]

Good call. Here's the new list:

Updated List

Bloom

Bruegger's Bagels

Chief's Wings & Firewater

CostCo

Firehouse Subs

Food Lion

Hooters

Jason's Deli

Kohls

Olive Garden

Starbucks (2)

Local

Copper River Grill

Justin's Steakhouse

Pink Bee

Chains Lost

Long Horn

-------------------------------

Anything else?

[goodbye]

That is still a very short list that needs to grow drastically. Like you said, it is progress though.

[lynturner99]

Hollister is opening in the mall soon.

[hub-city]

hard to remember dates opened but some other rather new places downtown are Oscar's, Lime leaf, and Isha cafe

[Spartan]

Indeed. But that is just within the past year.

By my count, Spartanburg has 43 of the top 100 national retailers (in 2004), excluding online stores. Which really isn't that bad. Of those 57 we don't have, I have only heard of 19 of them:

* = indicates that the store was in the area at one point but has exited.

** = indicates that the store is not in the Upstate to my knowledge

Kroger **

Safeway

Albertsons

Kmart *

Rite-Aid *, (** Possible?)

GAP *

Federated Dept. Stores

Staples

Winn-Dixie *, **

BJ's Wholesale Club

Nordstrom **

CompUSA

Saks **

Border's Group **

Whole Foods Markets

Nieman Marcus **

Burlington Coat Factory

Harris Teeter *, (** Possible?)

Tiffany **

So of the stores we don't have (that I recognize), possibly 9 of them are not located in the Upstate to my knowledge.

I'll do restaurants later.... (this is where we are lacking big time)

[alias007]

My most wanted on that list:

Staples

CompUSA

Whole Foods Markets

Other things I want:

A Computer Direct Outlet kind of store, like the one on Laurens Rd in Greenville

I really like their staff and the seperate area for diagnosing your own equipment

An Indian restaurant, or do we have one? I went to the one on 176 across from StarBucks but they were closed.

Fazoli's!!! (It's the only fast food restaurant that my wife and I enjoy)

An Arcade with newer games, possibly a putt-putt course; something like Frankie's

[Spartan]

There is an Indian restaurant on East Main, right near the Oops! store and Steak-Out (which are near the bridge over Lawon's Fork). The name of it escapes me though. Check the Sparkle City Eateries thread, I know its in there. Probablyback a few pages.

I'd really like to see a CompUSA, or some other outlet that sells something other than HP and Gateway computers.

Frankie's would be nice. We still have the International Pavillion, or wahtever its called now. I'm not sure how that place is compared to the old days of the IP, though.

[djh1963]

Indeed. But that is just within the past year.

By my count, Spartanburg has 43 of the top 100 national retailers (in 2004), excluding online stores. Which really isn't that bad. Of those 57 we don't have, I have only heard of 19 of them:

* = indicates that the store was in the area at one point but has exited.

** = indicates that the store is not in the Upstate to my knowledge

Kroger **

Safeway

Albertsons

Kmart *

Rite-Aid *, (** Possible?)

GAP *

Federated Dept. Stores

Staples

Winn-Dixie *, **

BJ's Wholesale Club **

Nordstrom **

CompUSA

Saks **

Border's Group **

Whole Foods Markets

Nieman Marcus **

Burlington Coat Factory

Harris Teeter *, (** Possible?)

Tiffany **

So of the stores we don't have (that I recognize), possibly 9 of them are not located in the Upstate to my knowledge.

I'll do restaurants later.... (this is where we are lacking big time)