Downtown Projects & Developments

[westsider28]

The City has re-striped Church Street to allow left turns onto East Main, and disallow left turns onto Dunbar.  This seems to suggest that Dunbar at Morgan Square will eventually be closed to car traffic, which was mentioned as a possibility in a City Council retreat earlier this year. 

I'm not sure I like this setup.  I think it makes an already intimidating pedestrian crossing (Main & Church) even more daunting.  And the SIX lanes on Church between Main and Broad really needs to be changed.

Thoughts?

Edited April 14, 2016 by westsider28

[Spartan]

That was my first thought too. The article in the HJ was very poorly written. After looking at the aerial, I figured out all they did was flip the turn lane on N Church around so that instead of northbound traffic being able to make a left onto Dunbar, now southbound traffic can make a left onto E Main.This doesn't change the crossing distance at all, but as you said it does introduce more conflict points from the additional turning movement.

The solution, though, is pretty simple.

1) The left turn lane from southbound S Church onto Kennedy St isn't critical. Just remove left turns onto Kennedy St between 7-8am and 5-6pm and you can easily live without it. Then convert that lane into a planted median and extend it though the crosswalks, creating a walk-through for pedestrians at the two intersections (technical term is a "pedestrian refuge").

2) On N Church, the width of the street is the same, but the lanes are slightly wider. Reduce the lanes to create enough space to do the same thing on the block between Main and Dunbar. 

Doing that would preserve the ability to have left turns onto Main St (which is desirable from a network and traffic flow standpoint), while improving conditions for pedestrians.

[westsider28]

Kennedy Street? Do you mean Broad Street? Kennedy is pretty far from most pedestrian activity.

I know we don't have the greatest grid system, but I don't think we need to allow left turns at so many intersections.  People need to make rights and go around the block like most cities.  Like you said, left turns increase conflict points.  For example, I wish we'd eliminate all the dedicated left turn lanes on Broad to allow for more on-street parking.

And I think we need WAY more pedestrian refuges around downtown, particularly on heavily traveled streets like St. John, Church, and Pine.  Actually, I'm pretty sure we don't have ANY right now.

[roads-scholar]

2 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Kennedy Street? Do you mean Broad Street? Kennedy is pretty far from most pedestrian activity.

I know we don't have the greatest grid system, but I don't think we need to allow left turns at so many intersections.  People need to make rights and go around the block like most cities.  Like you said, left turns increase conflict points.  For example, I wish we'd eliminate all the dedicated left turn lanes on Broad to allow for more on-street parking.

And I think we need WAY more pedestrian refuges around downtown, particularly on heavily traveled streets like St. John, Church, and Pine.  Actually, I'm pretty sure we don't have ANY right now.

 

2 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Kennedy Street? Do you mean Broad Street? Kennedy is pretty far from most pedestrian activity.

I know we don't have the greatest grid system, but I don't think we need to allow left turns at so many intersections.  People need to make rights and go around the block like most cities.  Like you said, left turns increase conflict points.  For example, I wish we'd eliminate all the dedicated left turn lanes on Broad to allow for more on-street parking.

And I think we need WAY more pedestrian refuges around downtown, particularly on heavily traveled streets like St. John, Church, and Pine.  Actually, I'm pretty sure we don't have ANY right now.

This is probably way off topic but St. John Street, especially between Daniel Morgan and Pine, is a speedway and needs a series of landscaped medians to calm the traffic and make it safer for pedestrians.  The strip in front of "The George" and the CCC is really crazy with fast moving cars and people.  With the MB redevelopment it would seem this is a no brainer.  Thoughts?

[westsider28]

roads-scholar, absolutely agree.  As I've said before, there needs to be a traffic light at St. John and Liberty.  We'll have the Co-op, a new office building, the potential MB reno, the George, and Chapman all right there, with tons of associated car & foot traffic.  The City HAS to convince SCDOT to allow it.  And yeah, landscaped medians between all the street intersections. 

On a related note, drivers and businesses also need to learn to live without free left turns into every driveway and/or parking lot.  Putting in landscaped medians and forcing drivers to U-turn at lights or go around the block is standard operating procedure in most places.  It calms traffic, beautifies the street, and makes things much safer.

Going back to Church Street, here's my idea for a few ped refuges that would be relatively easy to implement.  Alternately, the sidewalks could be expanded and the turn lanes become just one median (5 lanes total), but this would likely be cheaper (& easier to convince SCDOT).

Edited April 14, 2016 by westsider28

[hub-city]

I like this a lot.  In fact, I wish the city would come up with a plan for Church Street from the intersection with Asheville hwy. to Carver Jr. High.  That whole stretch needs some work.

Any way to share your ideas with people that can make it happen?

 

[westsider28]

I mean, I know some people with the City that I could talk to about this.  But the main issue would be money.  It would cost a lot to do all that streetscaping.  Plus the City would have to fight SCDOT the whole way, I'm sure.  They may be picking their battles, so to speak.  I know the City has had to wrangle with SCDOT on the Rail Trail extension (particularly the Henry-Union intersection), for example.

[Spartan]

11 hours ago, westsider28 said:

I mean, I know some people with the City that I could talk to about this.  But the main issue would be money.  It would cost a lot to do all that streetscaping.  Plus the City would have to fight SCDOT the whole way, I'm sure.  They may be picking their battles, so to speak.  I know the City has had to wrangle with SCDOT on the Rail Trail extension (particularly the Henry-Union intersection), for example.

1) Yes, I meant Broad Street. Left turns are important to a grid system, but I think it's worth sacrificing some if it means better conditions for pedestrians on Main Street.

2) That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. If they are wide enough to have plants in them, the Spots of Pride people would seem like a good funding source. Also, while I have no concept of what the City's funding availability is, it's probably less than $25-30k to install something like that. In the big picture of roadway projects, it's fairly inexpensive.

17 hours ago, roads-scholar said:

This is probably way off topic but St. John Street, especially between Daniel Morgan and Pine, is a speedway and needs a series of landscaped medians to calm the traffic and make it safer for pedestrians.  The strip in front of "The George" and the CCC is really crazy with fast moving cars and people.  With the MB redevelopment it would seem this is a no brainer.  Thoughts?

St John Street is absolutely a speedway. But the bigger challenge there is that it's also US-29. Numbered routes are more sacred to DOT's than other streets, and tend to have higher expectations based on traffic throughput. Given that 29 used to be on Main Street, I think St John is the better route since it has to get through downtown somehow. That being said, Liberty St should have a signal and the speed limit could be lowered to 30 (and the lights timed to favor 30mph drivers). They could also narrow the lanes to add bike lanes and the City could install a planted median in places where you don't need the left turn lane.

 

[spartanburgh]

I noticed in the Construction Journal today that a new office building on the Herald Journal site has entered the conceptual design phase. I hope that this means

the plans for that site are moving along with development happening soon.

[Spartan]

Did I miss something? Did someone buy the HJ site?

[westsider28]

@Spartan Well, Johnson Development bought it a few years ago.  And you actually made a separate thread about the site https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/117477-herald-journal-redevelopment/ (which honestly is probably where these posts should be).  That's good to hear about a conceptual design.  This is probably the most important site in downtown.

*Edit - @spartanburgh, I checked that website (granted I'm not a member & have limited access) but what I saw was that the project type says "renovation". So this may just be minor work on the existing building.

Edited May 10, 2016 by westsider28

[Spartan]

Haha, obviously I forgot that detail. I feel like if something new were going to be built there that we'd hear about it long before a conceptual design. At least I'd hope so.

[westsider28]

The Magnolia streetscaping project recently went out for bids.  The design has changed quite a bit from the renderings on the City's website.  Still widens the sidewalk and puts trees in bulb-outs, but it looks like it will be mostly concrete (with a decorative pattern) with brick only at the bulb-outs.  I think they are planning to coordinate construction with the new Miyako building.  This will be a big improvement from current conditions.

Also, the Hub City Co-op mentioned at their annual meeting that a traffic signal is planned at St John and Liberty!  No hard details yet.  I hope it's truly a full signal.  It's desperately needed.

[Spartan]

It's slightly disappointing that they aren't using brick for the whole thing, but it's still going to be a huge improvement.

[westsider28]

Good article this morning about the Magnolia St streetscaping.  The project will start Tuesday and should be done by early August.  Looking forward to this one.

The article also mentions Liberty St streetscaping as a future possibility.  I had heard about that before.  As I understand, it would be the part near the Co-op and could involve power line burial, streetlights, and maybe widened sidewalks.  Would be a nice upgrade; hope it happens.

[Spartan]

Liberty Street would be a great project. Combined with Converse, it would make a better bike/ped connection between the CCC/the George and Main Street. I'm not clear on where they could widen sidewalks except maybe the last block. I think the bigger issue from a sidewalk perspective is the SPARTA station, since the buses park all over it.

Honestly, the biggest problem for that portion of downtown is the Water System building and the Hangar. Both of them are great things to have downtown, but they lack any street presence that might encourage people to explore a little further.

 

[SpartanBorn&Raised]

Not sure if this belongs here, but does anyone know what is going on with Andrew's Atomic Dogs which is supposed to open on Union Street sometime this summer?  (In the old P.K.'s)  I spoke with the owner about this place back in March, and he stated that he tried a taste-test between these and Skins' hot dogs at an event in Greenville, and that people responded very well to this concept.  I can already tell it has great potential.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Evan Carr

[spartanburgh]

Not sure, but I did see a sign for a new Ike's Grill beside the skate park.

[SpartanBorn&Raised]

Second location???

 

[roads-scholar]

Does anyone know what's happening besides the new Event Rentals location on West Main?  I noticed grading and site prep when driving by the other day.

[westsider28]

@roads-scholar Unfortunately, nothing really. Just making the lot look better. http://www.goupstate.com/article/20160625/OPINION/160629783/1130?Title=The-Huddle-More-dirt-moving-downtown

[westsider28]

In unexpected news, an indoor go-kart track called "Speed Factory" will open in August in an old 40,000 sq ft warehouse across Daniel Morgan from the Marriott.  Definitely a unique concept that could potentially be a destination attraction.  In terms of the often talked-about desire for more activities for kids, teens, and families downtown, this certainly fits the bill. Hope it's successful!

[SpartanBorn&Raised]

UPDATE: For anyone wondering about this development... Andrew's Atomic Dogs is set to open on Union Street in Spartanburg in the next 2 weeks . I got a quick peak inside and talked with the owner. He will offer free Wi-Fi in addition to great food, and it will be both a great spot for the family, friends, work lunches, and for intimate date nights. Fact: Andrew's beat Skins Hot Dogs of Anderson, SC in a chili dog tasting contest held in Greenville. ‪#‎visitspartanburg‬ ‪#‎lovewhereyoulive‬ ‪#‎onesparranburg‬

 

On 6/23/2016 at 4:35 PM, Evan Carr said:

Not sure if this belongs here, but does anyone know what is going on with Andrew's Atomic Dogs which is supposed to open on Union Street sometime this summer?  (In the old P.K.'s)  I spoke with the owner about this place back in March, and he stated that he tried a taste-test between these and Skins' hot dogs at an event in Greenville, and that people responded very well to this concept.  I can already tell it has great potential.

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by Evan Carr

[westsider28]

Sounds good. I wonder if they'll put in a connection to the Rail Trail, I think that would be great for a grab-&-go place.  Might want to put info about restaurants like this in the "Sparkle City Eateries" thread in the future.  But it's no big deal.

I wanted to post a photo of Magnolia St streetscaping from Saturday.  Seems to be moving along at a good pace.  Oh yeah, I peeked in the back of the new Miyako's site, and after demolition took longer than expected, it looks like the foundation of the new building is getting started.

[djh1963]

Speaking of the new  Miyako  building has anyone seen  design for it? Did it not have to go before the DRB?