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TheAnk

Monhasset Mills

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Wow.. I mean, this is an "artist collaborative", right?

The Monohasset Mill Project, LLC is a unique adaptive reuse of an historic mill complex for subsidized and market rate artist live/work condominiums. Developed by four artists who share a commitment to the arts and arts community, this project represents a vision for the city's underused and vacant commercial and industrial buildings. This development also shares in the wider concern that rising real estate prices in Providence and other cities are driving the once rich and vibrant artist communities out of the city. In recognizing this, the MMP seeks to minimize the potential negative effects of gentrification to the existing community

http://www.millproject.org/mission.php

This does not seem consistent to me.. How many "artists" can afford 685k? maybe those people who ambushed the Rising Sun lady after paying for their equestrian lessons can... I can't... But then again, I am not an artist.. Real working people don't have the luxury of being artists.. We have bills to pay..

Artists are being forced out by big bad evil developers and their fabric of life destroying tool of gentrification, right?? And, apparently.. Also by ARTIST COLLABORATIVES..

You see Danny, I can deal with the bullets, and the bombs, and the blood. I don't want money, and I don't want medals. What I do want is for you to stand there in that patchouli stained "non-profit" artist collaborative and with your RISD mouth explain to me how this is not gentrification.

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...911&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...907&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...915&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...886&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...900&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...892&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...895&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...549&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...520&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...881&indiv=1

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Good point. I live right near there in the Rising Sun Mills and I was interested in finding out more info on those condos. Once i found out that they were for artists I discounted it, I am in the arts but not technically an artist in the eyes of the state.

I am an architect so i design "pretty" buildings not pretty paintings, however that doesn't mean that my life is any easier off than other people in the arts. It seems a little hypocritical to have condos for that much for "starving artist" who are currently being kicked out of there squating areas. But man those condo photos look really nice.

Providence is becoming really expensive to leave in even in olneyville. Next to living in a three family house (which I have done) you can barely afford to live here.

Granted those condos do have some huge tax breaks, oh well.

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http://www.millproject.org/mission.php

This does not seem consistent to me.. How many "artists" can afford 685k? maybe those people who ambushed the Rising Sun lady after paying for their equestrian lessons can... I can't... But then again, I am not an artist.. Real working people don't have the luxury of being artists.. We have bills to pay..

Artists are being forced out by big bad evil developers and their fabric of life destroying tool of gentrification, right?? And, apparently.. Also by ARTIST COLLABORATIVES..

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What artist can afford it? One who bought a three-family victorian off college hill in 1997 for $120k and sold it last year for $850k? That would be easy...

Otherwise, this development also includes units priced around $175k for artists who did not have the fortune of buying in a down market. These mixed-income development are EXACTLY what neighborhoods like Olneyville need to harness the quality of life benefits increased investment brings to lower income neighborhoods without forcing out or excluding the people who long lived there.

If ALL the units were wildly expensive like this one (and this one is huge and the cream of the crop), then you would have a very valid point.

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Good point. I live right near there in the Rising Sun Mills and I was interested in finding out more info on those condos. Once i found out that they were for artists I discounted it, I am in the arts but not technically an artist in the eyes of the state.

I am an architect so i design "pretty" buildings not pretty paintings, however that doesn't mean that my life is any easier off than other people in the arts. It seems a little hypocritical to have condos for that much for "starving artist" who are currently being kicked out of there squating areas. But man those condo photos look really nice.

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I believe that architecture is addressed in the section on artist-qualifying criteria. You need to have a degree in the field, be able to provide a portfolio of work, and have at least one project underway within the past year. There are other criteria such as "artist statement," to name one.

While I work for an architecture firm, I do not have a graduate degree in the field and I do not create my own original designs (I work for a medium-sized A/E firm), so I would probably not make the cut here if I were interested to begin with. This seems like a decent place to live (nicely finished, great views on the upper floors, walking distance to amenities at Eagle square and to Federal Hill), but I definitely could not afford any of the units above the $250-300,000 range.

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Subsidized units start at $125,000. Thats pretty affordable. Subsidized units are also not going to be listed on MLS.

Again, as many people on the board have pointed out, equity makes a big difference in affordabilty, regardless of income. Artists who have equity in existing real estate are just like any other person with equity in existing real estate.

I see your point - if you are not already in the market, you often can't afford market prices - certainly not artists. In this case however, the market prices are subsidizing below market prices to allow a specific group of people (certified artists) entry into the market. This is definitely a good thing.

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I am all for more affordable housing, not cheap section 8 housing, but well designed and equally well priced. Most of what is around me is low income and no one seems to care about the sourroundings. Regardless of price i would love to get my equity started there.

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The cheapest one is 256k for +/- 1000 sq ft.. You can buy a 3500 sq ft 3 decker accross the street for that and house a commune of "artists".. You can start a patchouli cult of 20 people.. 100 sq ft is good for 2 people, three tops.. And what income would be needed to support 256k evebn with the 90% tax break?

pete11?? I'm asking you..

There is no artist who can afford a "live work space" like these at prices like these... And if they can, they are successful artists and living in places like NYC or LA..

Oh and the granite high end stuff is a nice touch.. You are kidding yourselves if you can't see your own kind stabbing you in the back.. There is no difference between Monohasset Mills and FELDCO or AEBR.. None..

Except maybe devils stick and hackey sack prowess..

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*le sigh*

its the same old bullsh+t in every single thread...

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Yeah how 700% increase in price in 8 years while wages remain relatively stagnant is normal. Maybe use a calculator, then you can tell us how this is affordable.

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I went to a meet and greet back in October in Washington Park, and one of the issues brought to Mayor Cicilline was Monhasset Mills - the overwhelming opinion was that they specify "artists", but very few of the artists we'd like to support could afford them.

The response was that there were 2 or 3 big "artist loft" projects in the works to provide affordable housing to artists - recent grads, "starving" artists, the like. Monhasset was specifically mentioned as *not* being one of these programs.

Unfortunately, I'm going to make this a worthless post by not recalling the names of the other projects or their completion dates, but information I've gathered is that affordable (by persons with < $20k annual income) artist housing projects are certainly in the works and are being supported by the city.

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I went to a meet and greet back in October in Washington Park, and one of the issues brought to Mayor Cicilline was Monhasset Mills - the overwhelming opinion was that they specify "artists", but very few of the artists we'd like to support could afford them.

The response was that there were 2 or 3 big "artist loft" projects in the works to provide affordable housing to artists - recent grads, "starving" artists, the like. Monhasset was specifically mentioned as *not* being one of these programs.

Unfortunately, I'm going to make this a worthless post by not recalling the names of the other projects or their completion dates, but information I've gathered is that affordable (by persons with < $20k annual income) artist housing projects are certainly in the works and are being supported by the city.

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all brought about by private groups, not directly government supported (just want to make that last point, cause the city taking credit has been a bit of a sore subject with alot of people lately).

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You can't possibly think that real estate value is tied entirely to income alone, can you? Yet that is essentially all you ever post about.

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I can honestly say that there are many condos out there on the market now around 100k.. That IS AFFORDABLE...

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This is going to be a far stretch for you, but here goes.. The definition of affordable has changed.. Not nation wide, but in certain markets (I won't go into my "wacky" libertarian anti-inflation reasons why).. And not recently, as you might think.. I don't claim to know anything about Boise, Idaho's real estate market.. But the North East, has changed.. And your model of affordibility is from decades ago..

The new first home is a condo for most people.. Why is this? Its because single fam homes are out of reach for most first timers.. Did the real estate market come crashing down when single family housing became unaffordable? No, the condo took its place.. The single became, for most people, a trade up.. Those equity holders eltron mentions, they buy single fams..

Was it armageddon? Fire and brimstone? The Great Depression Part II? No.. People just bought condos instead of single families.. (A crazy aside, I saw something on Japan, where space is extremely restrictive, where you can actually rent a hotel room the size of a sleeping bag.)

So what you have going on in the North East is the condo-ization of the housing stock.. Thats how the market reacts, it makes affordible entry level housing when there is none.. I can honestly say that there are many condos out there on the market now around 100k.. That IS AFFORDABLE... The market does not come crashing down, it reacts, then adjusts, repeat.. up and down.. down and up..

The North East is not overbuilt, that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.. This isn't Texas where you can build out indefinitely..

I DO think though, to your point, that when these big projects all come online that there will be a glut at the top of the lux condo market.. I haven't quite figured out how that will pan out though.. I also think that it is a bit ambitious for the three decker condo conversion some people are trying.. Sorry, not yet eager beavers.. Be patient..

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Wow.. I mean, this is an "artist collaborative", right?

The Monohasset Mill Project, LLC is a unique adaptive reuse of an historic mill complex for subsidized and market rate artist live/work condominiums. Developed by four artists who share a commitment to the arts and arts community, this project represents a vision for the city's underused and vacant commercial and industrial buildings. This development also shares in the wider concern that rising real estate prices in Providence and other cities are driving the once rich and vibrant artist communities out of the city. In recognizing this, the MMP seeks to minimize the potential negative effects of gentrification to the existing community

http://www.millproject.org/mission.php

This does not seem consistent to me.. How many "artists" can afford 685k? maybe those people who ambushed the Rising Sun lady after paying for their equestrian lessons can... I can't... But then again, I am not an artist.. Real working people don't have the luxury of being artists.. We have bills to pay..

Artists are being forced out by big bad evil developers and their fabric of life destroying tool of gentrification, right?? And, apparently.. Also by ARTIST COLLABORATIVES..

You see Danny, I can deal with the bullets, and the bombs, and the blood. I don't want money, and I don't want medals. What I do want is for you to stand there in that patchouli stained "non-profit" artist collaborative and with your RISD mouth explain to me how this is not gentrification.

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...911&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...907&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...915&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...886&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...900&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...892&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...895&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...549&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...520&indiv=1

http://www.riliving.com/PropSearch/cndform...881&indiv=1

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Ok, so gentrification is ok when the "right people" gentrify an area.. I get it now.. If Rising Sun and the like bring thousands of like incomed yuppies, its evil.. If 300k condos at Monohasset brings the Patchouli Parade its Chic - Good Times...

pete11, can you tell me the last time the US had a deflationary period? Thanks.. I'd like the year.. And when you post it, I'd also like to know what % of UP'ers were alive during a deflationary period in the US.. I'm pretty sure its 0%..

While you are at it, please calculate at what income a 100k condo is affordable.. Using whatever affordibility model you choose..

I find that people generally find it very easy to say "what goes up, must come down".. I mean, its completely logical and makes sense.. Revert to the mean.. Standard Deviation, bla bla bla.. And on a national trend, your towing of the company line is completely correct.. Way too easy credit, way too speculative buying of real estate, the widespread acceptance of "creative financing".. Greeny's famous irrational exuberence in full effect.. But even you can agree that nationally there will not be a flat line item-vote decline (I hope).

If you take residences and their fair market rent equivalent, what is most likely to decline? Real estate that is out of whack valuation wise.. Income matters, but the real VALUE of a residence is its rent ratio.. Its the missing link to your Chicken Little Thesis.. And the bottom line is this.. Rents were artificially low on the West Side until recently.. Depressed.. Now I feel they are in line.. And the rent ratio of income properties is now in balance, just now.. So your theories about catagorical decline are far fetched at best, and lunacy at worst..

I also think the "affordability" model of 28% income to rent is one of the most absurd ratios around.. Is this gross or net? Pretax post tax? I assume pretax.. Post tax would be tough.. I'd like to meet someone who only pays 28% of their income to their primary residence.. Maybe Mr. Median knows.. The funniest part of the 28% is that in order to get that percentage, wouldn't a bunch of people have to pay less than 28% of their income to prim res? Are they retirees? Maybe I can get a lesson on mean, median and average..

28% post tax for Mr. Median making 30k per year would be $525 per month.. I don't know many people paying $525 a month for a one bed.. I think 40% in the new world is a better percentage of income to residence..

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Ank, your post below the gentrification part is right on...you really hit the nail on the head.

The top part - again, I get your point, but I think you are off the mark a little bit. What makes Monohasset work better for a neighborhood than Rising Sun is that it is MIXED income, not exlusively HIGH income. As I've said over and over again, gentrification (or perhaps it just be rephrased neighborhood investment and capital improvement), is NOT a bad thing to a point. When it goes too far, then it becomes a problem. Rising Sun, coupled with The Plant AND all the stuff Olneyville Housing Development Corp. does is FANTASTIC for the neighborhood. Three Rising Suns without the other two not so good.

If you can add income and cultural diversity in (and I'm not saying Monohasset has the cultural part), its even better for an improved, sustainable neighborhood...

Ok, so gentrification is ok when the "right people" gentrify an area.. I get it now.. If Rising Sun and the like bring thousands of like incomed yuppies, its evil.. If 300k condos at Monohasset brings the Patchouli Parade its Chic - Good Times...

pete11, can you tell me the last time the US had a deflationary period? Thanks.. I'd like the year.. And when you post it, I'd also like to know what % of UP'ers were alive during a deflationary period in the US.. I'm pretty sure its 0%..

While you are at it, please calculate at what income a 100k condo is affordable.. Using whatever affordibility model you choose..

I find that people generally find it very easy to say "what goes up, must come down".. I mean, its completely logical and makes sense.. Revert to the mean.. Standard Deviation, bla bla bla.. And on a national trend, your towing of the company line is completely correct.. Way too easy credit, way too speculative buying of real estate, the widespread acceptance of "creative financing".. Greeny's famous irrational exuberence in full effect.. But even you can agree that nationally there will not be a flat line item-vote decline (I hope).

If you take residences and their fair market rent equivalent, what is most likely to decline? Real estate that is out of whack valuation wise.. Income matters, but the real VALUE of a residence is its rent ratio.. Its the missing link to your Chicken Little Thesis.. And the bottom line is this.. Rents were artificially low on the West Side until recently.. Depressed.. Now I feel they are in line.. And the rent ratio of income properties is now in balance, just now.. So your theories about catagorical decline are far fetched at best, and lunacy at worst..

I also think the "affordability" model of 28% income to rent is one of the most absurd ratios around.. Is this gross or net? Pretax post tax? I assume pretax.. Post tax would be tough.. I'd like to meet someone who only pays 28% of their income to their primary residence.. Maybe Mr. Median knows.. The funniest part of the 28% is that in order to get that percentage, wouldn't a bunch of people have to pay less than 28% of their income to prim res? Are they retirees? Maybe I can get a lesson on mean, median and average..

28% post tax for Mr. Median making 30k per year would be $525 per month.. I don't know many people paying $525 a month for a one bed.. I think 40% in the new world is a better percentage of income to residence..

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I also think the "affordability" model of 28% income to rent is one of the most absurd ratios around.. Is this gross or net? Pretax post tax? I assume pretax.. Post tax would be tough.. I'd like to meet someone who only pays 28% of their income to their primary residence.. Maybe Mr. Median knows.. The funniest part of the 28% is that in order to get that percentage, wouldn't a bunch of people have to pay less than 28% of their income to prim res? Are they retirees? Maybe I can get a lesson on mean, median and average..

28% post tax for Mr. Median making 30k per year would be $525 per month.. I don't know many people paying $525 a month for a one bed.. I think 40% in the new world is a better percentage of income to residence..

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