Would you plant a palm tree on your eastern Tennessee lawn if you knew it would grow? We are trying to spread the word

[Tennesseestorm]

We are trying to start a palm tree group for the "upper south". Palm trees have been discussed at lengths in the general "Southern USA" forums. We would like to see more of these "rarely seen" trees planted more in the region. I know there may be some that may not like these trees or think they are "out of place" and thats OK. I understand.

Palm trees are very rarely seen in east Tennessee, simply because many people are not aware that palms will grow here, which is a misconception. There are several varieties of hardy palms that will grow in east Tennessee- even northeast Tennessee, with little or no winter protection.

Needle palm- is very hardy and has been known to survive the all-time record cold that hit east Tennessee in January of 1985. Knoxville dropped to -24

[Tennesseestorm]

Or maybe I am a fool? LOL.

[BnaBreaker]

I don't get it. What's the point of this? Palm Trees aren't supposed to grow here or else they probably already would. Why not just move to the coast?

[Tennesseestorm]

Sorry- seems like I upset you- did not mean to do that.....

I thought that would be some of the attitude, - those that do not really care about them, but you would be surprised at the # of people trying to grow palms out of their range and many people that would if they knew. Maybe they like palms, but do not want to move to the coast? I like palms, but love east Tennessee - so thats why I do not want to leave. If they will grow here, why NOT plant them?

Also- if there are some that will grow in the area safely, I think many more people may want to plant them, to change the "everyday" tree look. Our goal is just to let people know that certain palms will grow in many areas here incase they do like them and would like to plant them. Many people are unaware. I was unaware until a couple of years ago and wish I had of known sooner.

If you think about it.... palms are also probably not native to places like Atlanta, Birmingham, Memphis or Dallas, (I do not know, but I do not think so) but they are there and palms are growing out of their native range. Like those someone posted in SE New Jersey. They have become more naturalized there, because more people know that they will grow there- just like. That is the point we are just wanting to let people know here that they will grow here as well- at least the hardy ones. In essence, some are already growing here, as I have some, as well as about 10 other people I know in the metro area.

Thats why there is at least one palm now that will safely grow in zones as low as 5B, which is the needle palm. It will survive to around -20

[BnaBreaker]

Why would I be upset over it? I just didn't understand your reasoning, so I asked. You explained, now I understand. Simple as white bread.

[Hankster]

I think it's very interesting to find out that certain palms will grow in very low temperatures. I like palm trees too, but didn't know they would grow in places like Bristol.

Back in the 80's I was amazed to see a stunted palm tree growing in a botanical garden in Northern Scotland. That about the same latitude as Hudson Bay in Canada. This was not a needle palm, but a palm tree similar to the kind you would find in Northern Florida. I asked how this tree could grow there, and was told that northern Scotland is warmed by the Gulf Stream Current, and it's marine location that prevents temperatures from getting extremely cod. They said the lowest temperature ever recorded there was +13 degrees F. Pretty amazing for that far north.

[Tennesseestorm]

Sounds great.

Why would I be upset over it? I just didn't understand your reasoning, so I asked. You explained, now I understand. Simple as white bread.

[Tennesseestorm]

I agree with ya! I did too. Before I really got into researching trees, I had no idea either. It was not until a few years ago that I started researching and ran across some "hardy" palm tree sites, like the ones I posted. I was quite amazed. I first learned that some folks were growing some palms in Chattanooga and I thought, well, Chattanooga is not all that much warmer than Bristol, so I researched more. I then ran across some folks in the Tri-Cities that have been successful with palms. As mentioned, I now have a Windmill palm, as well as a Sabal Birmingham, both doing fine, even after our record lows of 9

[nwgeorgia]

I first learned that some folks were growing some palms in Chattanooga and I thought, well, Chattanooga is not all that much warmer than Bristol...

[Tennesseestorm]

Thats true, but I would not say much colder. As the normals show, Chattanoogas average is higher than Bristol- not only is Chattanooga further south, but they are also lower in elevation. Chattanooga is about 650 ft. and Bristol is about 1500 ft.

One thing to remember, Bristols "official" averages are based @ the Tri-Cities airport. Something that alot of people do not know, is that the Tri-Cities APT. is typically the COOLEST spot in the metro area. It is located in a somewhat urban area off of I-81 very near a "river bottom". I live in southeast Bristol and I would say that 90% of the time, we are about typically 2-5

[Hankster]

One thing I find very intesting is that Knoxville's "all-time" record low is 2

[Tennesseestorm]

Bone biting indeed, especially around these parts! I wish I could remember that record chill, but I was only 9 years old at the time and do not recall. I do remember grandpa going on and on that it dropped to -17

[Raintree21]

Palm trees don't belong in Tennessee. That's bringing a non-native species into the area that could possibly wipe out other species. That's the reason Customs checks you for fruit and vegetables at the airports and seaports. They don't want foreign species in the country that could hurt our plant life. Same thing with why some people don't want dogs on trails in the national forests. When the defecate, they spread seeds from the grasses and plants they ate at their home, again introducing non-native species. Allow Mother Nature to do her job and if palm trees are in the great plan, then they will get there eventually.

[Rural King]

I'm going sort of: ^ Does this mean we need to get rid of our Banana trees in NWTN? LOL Fulton, KY and South Fulton, TN used to the banana capitol of the US -served as a the main icing down point for rail shipments going across the nation- and locals took to planting them. They can still be found in a few yards scattered across the region.

[Raintree21]

Technically, yeah, you should..... Not saying you have to of course. Forestry officials do that kind of thing all the time by removing non-native fish species from a creek or river for example.

[Hankster]

Well, I guess I'd better dig up my Japanese maple tree then.

[Raintree21]

It just depends on how extreme of a view you take on it. I'm by far an extremist, I was just explaining the rationale behind the thought and try do do what I can to support/preserve what we have.

[Tennesseestorm]

Oh really? What a strange comment about the palm trees? What about the ones in Charlotte and just south of there... like in upstate SC and places like Atlanta? Cut them too, because they are not native to Charlotte either I do not think. In fact, the palm tree I am referring to is not native to the USA at all. It is from China, but is a very common tree in the southeastern USA. There are tons of trees everywhere that is not native and killing them would not make sense... not to me anyway.

I do not see how a palm tree in Tennessee could cause damage...

It just depends on how extreme of a view you take on it. I'm by far an extremist, I was just explaining the rationale behind the thought and try do do what I can to support/preserve what we have.

[Raintree21]

Meant to say I'm not an extremist but I think it came out worded wrong.

The Palmetto Palm tree is actually native to the coast of the Carolinas along with several other species of palm.

Not saying there aren't any but I'm not familiar with any palm trees in Charlotte and besides, that's not the point of this thread. It's about introducing a tree to an area that it is not already in.

[RedStar25]

Palm trees are just plain ugly for the most part.

Now give me a nice old live oak with spanish moss all over it.... oh yea baby!

[Tennesseestorm]

Well, I like some of the palms and I agree with you on the Live Oaks- I love them... I actually have some of those too, as well as Spanish moss... I know, in Tennessee its unheard of, but my Live Oaks have survived two winters.... I am sure the Spanish Moss will die this winter... I got it this summer and have had it for a few months.... I will probably bring some of it in this winter...

Here is some moss (that came from north Florida) draped in my Willow Oak... my Live Oaks are not large enough yet for the moss.... ( I actually took these photos on 9-8-07 Saturday)

You can also see some of the moss draped in my Bald Cypess if you look closely:

Here is one of my Live Oaks... in our beautiful dried out grass from our severe drought... we should not have cut the grass here...

Here is the tree that has really grown the most here this year... my Longleaf pine.. its taller than me now and starting to get branches this year:

Palm trees are just plain ugly for the most part.

Now give me a nice old live oak with spanish moss all over it.... oh yea baby!

[RedStar25]

Im not sure if Spanish moss can survive this far north. You do know it is a paracite and will kill your plants if allowed to run wild. I remeber as a kid trucks driving around and pulling the moss off the trees when it became to thick.

[Tennesseestorm]

Yeah, you are probably right... I do not think it will survive this far north either... I have never been able to find out the "lowest temperature" that it can survive at. I was once told 0

[Tennesseestorm]

Well, to update, the Spanish Moss is still hanging in there. It has endured a few mornings in the 20s and most recently, we had a 15

[Tennesseestorm]

Another update.... someone on the city-data forums posted this for me today...

These palms are in Kingsport, TN - which is about 23 miles west of Bristol and 6 miles south of the TN-VA state line....

Well, here are more photos of some palms around here. Someone on the city-data forums took these today for me. I was told that these trees were in the area, but the past few times I was down there, I forgot to go see them. These are in Kingsport, TN- only about 10 miles south of the Tennessee-Virginia state line and about 22 miles west of me.... this city is about 1200 ft. in elevation and is zone 7a.....

I think they are Windmill palms... at least the smaller ones. Not sure about the larger one. Perhaps the same? I do not think it a Cabbage palm?