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Retail Downtown


GRDadof3

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Correction - Rock Kaufman moved out to the burbs. Which is almost as bad as closing.

Scapegoats, one more project isn't going to make or break. Gotta believe there were other issues involved. Books are a tough market, margins are slim.

You forgot the one on Fulton where Douma's Art Supplies used to be.

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I don't disagree with you there. I was just pointing out our conflicting views of what Rockford Construction planned to do (Pharmacy with drive up parking), which most hated (including myself) vs. what we are talking about now (downtown retail). Downtown has to become a destination retail spot, not unlike what we did with the entertainment scene. I am passionate about downtown but would never go out of my way to frequent any big box type store downtown. But unique items that you can't find anywhere BUT downtown, that would be the lynch pin. Once people realized that parking *REALLY IS* convenient (especially to Monroe Center), and a retail foundation was built, we could potentially draw some bigger anchors. Say, a GAP or an Apple Store.

So the question, in my mind, is how do we get the boutique shops downtown? Not one or two, but en masse? Incentives, tax credits, reduced rent, cross promotion? I think the downtown community *COULD* pull it together if it really worked together. It seems like a top priority on my mind. I'd say much more important the the Riverfront proposals, etc. that they spent so much time and effort on.

What is the average rent on Monroe Center? Wouldn't the average building owner rather have a vibrant storefront at a much reduced rate for x # of years than an empty storefront. I think 5 years of "subsidized" vibrant retail would be well worth it in ten.

Tell you what. If we could get 8 sustainable retail spaces to band together and fill Monroe Center, *I'll* open a retail store. Something that could not be found in the 'burbs and would be a destination. Domino effect.

Joe

My point Joe was not that a pharmacy would be the ideal "anchor" to revive downtown retail, but it certainly would fill a need that I can personally attest to.
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I don't disagree with you there. I was just pointing out our conflicting views of what Rockford Construction planned to do (Pharmacy with drive up parking), which most hated (including myself) vs. what we are talking about now (downtown retail). Downtown has to become a destination retail spot, not unlike what we did with the entertainment scene. I am passionate about downtown but would never go out of my way to frequent any big box type store downtown. But unique items that you can't find anywhere BUT downtown, that would be the lynch pin. Once people realized that parking *REALLY IS* convenient (especially to Monroe Center), and a retail foundation was built, we could potentially draw some bigger anchors. Say, a GAP or an Apple Store.

So the question, in my mind, is how do we get the boutique shops downtown? Not one or two, but en masse? Incentives, tax credits, reduced rent, cross promotion? I think the downtown community *COULD* pull it together if it really worked together. It seems like a top priority on my mind. I'd say much more important the the Riverfront proposals, etc. that they spent so much time and effort on.

What is the average rent on Monroe Center? Wouldn't the average building owner rather have a vibrant storefront at a much reduced rate for x # of years than an empty storefront. I think 5 years of "subsidized" vibrant retail would be well worth it in ten.

Tell you what. If we could get 8 sustainable retail spaces to band together and fill Monroe Center, *I'll* open a retail store. Something that could not be found in the 'burbs and would be a destination. Domino effect.

Joe

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That is ridiculous. If space isn't even listed, how would you know unless you had a broker. Sometimes businesses happen because the opportunity is available. Not having space listed seems pretty silly to me.

If anyone knows what the typical sq. footage on Monroe Center is and what the going rate is (all things being considered), I'd love to know.

Joe

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The craziest thing is if you do a search for retail properties on Monroe Center at CARWM, you'll find virtually nothing listed. I don't get it. I even dropped the "Center" from my search so as to pick up any "CTR"s that may have been used. Where is the old City Market/wig shop listed? Where is the Van Hoeck's space? Where is the Two Choppers spot? Where is the old FOX Jewelers spot that Deb Shurlow owns? Where is Azzar's property? Where is the spot near Four Friend's that is vacant? WTF??!!

And we wonder why Monroe Center is not thriving. If it were classified a "mall", it would make CenterPointe look like Mall of America. There should be a separate Monroe Center Association set up (or something).

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^^ I think having sustained foot traffic would do DT alot better for the long turm than just the bursts of crowds generated by the Arena and Devos Place with troughs of nothingness between events. Having desirable retail in DT would do the job of attracting a continuous and steady number of people.

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My vision:

Monroe Center being a place to go to eat. Yes, I said it, a giant food court. Honestly, Monroe Center is perfect for it. Really large sidewalks allow tables and chairs outside in summer. Where else do you have sidewalks large enough for that?

Division being a retail center. Unfortunately it would be difficult to add streetside parking along N. Division, but it's been done for S. Division and looks great. Not only that, but there's no limit as to how far this retail can extend in the long future. With S. Division going as far as it does, it could easilly become our own Magnificent Mile, or more. In fact I dare say Division is already further ahead in terms of retail than Monroe Center is. Monroe Center has Van Hoeck's, Little Bohemia, and that other place I forget the name of. (not including the market, as that's more localised). Division has a variety of art galleries, another shoe place, 2 music stores, and again, Little Bohemia (though its primary frontage is on MC, one cannot walk down Division without taking notise of Little Bohemia.)

It just seems to me that Division is already showing that it is naturally attracting more retail than Monroe Center, and Monroe Center is naturally attracting more resturaunts than Division. Rather than force unnatural growth patterns onto these streets, why not encourage the natural growth patterns and help promote their strengths?

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My vision:

Monroe Center being a place to go to eat. Yes, I said it, a giant food court. Honestly, Monroe Center is perfect for it. Really large sidewalks allow tables and chairs outside in summer. Where else do you have sidewalks large enough for that?

Division being a retail center. Unfortunately it would be difficult to add streetside parking along N. Division, but it's been done for S. Division and looks great. Not only that, but there's no limit as to how far this retail can extend in the long future. With S. Division going as far as it does, it could easilly become our own Magnificent Mile, or more. In fact I dare say Division is already further ahead in terms of retail than Monroe Center is. Monroe Center has Van Hoeck's, Little Bohemia, and that other place I forget the name of. (not including the market, as that's more localised). Division has a variety of art galleries, another shoe place, 2 music stores, and again, Little Bohemia (though its primary frontage is on MC, one cannot walk down Division without taking notise of Little Bohemia.)

It just seems to me that Division is already showing that it is naturally attracting more retail than Monroe Center, and Monroe Center is naturally attracting more resturaunts than Division. Rather than force unnatural growth patterns onto these streets, why not encourage the natural growth patterns and help promote their strengths?

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I think there are two things that will make it hard for Division to be the retail hub.

1) When you ask suburbanites about S. Division I'm sure the first few words that pop into their head would be "Hookers, Homeless, Dangerous".

2) While I think that in order for downtown retail to work it will require destination shoppers that drive to downtown, Monroe Center does have much more density of existing foot traffic. Downtown workers, people who live downtown, events (concerts, ice rink), cultural activities, etc. S.D. doesn't have much of anything right now so you'd be missing a significant mass of people that you just need to hook them in the door.

It seems to me that Monroe Center is the right place, but lacks the catalyst to get things going.

Joe

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Well I think that with the branding of Division between Studio 71 South and the shoe store as the "Avenue for the Arts", that is definately helping. In people's mindset, they aren't going to Division, they're going to the Avenue for the Arts. We could further expand this concept by giving the stretch of Division between Fountain and Cherry a more appealing name of "The Avenue", and get something moving on both Division & Fulton projects. I think the poor decrepit state of the JA Building and the empty expanse of the old city center ramp is acting as an explorational barrier to guests to our city. They'll walk down Monroe Center, and when you reach the end, neither direction is appealing. North is void of any life at all, and south looks completely abandoned.

I would imagine, however, that rents are indeed much cheaper along Division than they are along Monroe Center, and this could be why retail is flocking there more than they are on Monroe Center. Division also receives more visibility to passing traffic. With specialty retail, most customers need to know you exist. Tucked away on the narrow street of Monroe Center, you're advertising only to passer-bys. Out on Division, anybody who drives through downtown will notise your existance.

I guess what the best strategy would be is to not focus on Division and abandon Monroe Center, but not to focus only on Montoe Center either. We need to focus on both. Some businesses just might not make it on Monroe Center but could on Division, and some businesses would rather be on Monroe Center instead of Division. We really need to upgrade Division's sidewalks though.. they're pretty horrible looking in places. The only remaining pedestrian-only section of Monroe Center needs to be focused on as well.

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When the Grand Rapids Art Museum opens at Ottawa Avenue and Monroe Center, it will have a retail component, one that Evoy thought would serve as an anchor and would draw shoppers to downtown and its main street.

But Evoy did suggest that labeling Monroe Center as downtown's main street may be a mistake. She said downtown has spread out so much in the past few years, by expanding into the East Fulton business district and along South Division Avenue, that it really can't have a main street. Nor can downtown be like a mall with all the shops lined up in neat rows.

"The retail we have is not in one place. Downtown retail is different, and we like that difference," said Evoy.

A Monroe Center casualty - GRBJ

What, the "empty, slow, vacant, barely staying afloat" kind of difference?

What does everyone think of the statements in the article?

1) How is the "retail component" at the new art museum going to serve as an anchor to draw shoppers to downtown? It will be a gift shop for museum patrons.

2) "Downtown has spread out so much....that it can't really have a main street" And how's that theory working for you so far? Apparently a clear ignorance as to how people shop in today's world. We don't have Manhattan density to sustain a bunch of spread out retailers by themselves. East Fulton? It's not even in the vicinity of being close to downtown.

3) The interesting downtown Austin study that GR8-town posted mentions Indianapolis, Norfolk and Minneapolis as downtowns with great viable retail components. All three have a mass of retail concentrated in one area (a main street), and draw people from all over their metro areas.

4) I don't think anyone is advocating turning Monroe Center back into "Monroe Pedestrian Mall".

4) It sounds like city hall is either perpetuating a myth, or has thrown in the towel on the issue.

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