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Triangle in the national media


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What the lady was probably talking about is the manicured lawns and medians and all the grennery that is provided by the town and HOAs. Living in Denver, it is ugly. No one but the ultra rich (meaning living in $3M homes) take care of the lawns and neighborhoods. The medians are weed infested and filled with rotting trees. The sidewalks are all broken and weeds are literally knee high and there are tons of old wooden, broken, termite infested fences along the road, where as Cary and other towns in the Triangle use stone/brick most of the time for the fences. Compared to what I look at everyday, Cary is pretty.

I go to Denver area quite often. Parts of Denver are OK, but like a lot of areas, has a tired look, but so does every city. I am sure the weather does not help. But DT looks nice as you are driving up to it. The overall view of Denver is very nice with the mountains in the back ground. Nice DT but I would hope that more people would be on the street. Still, the number of people on the street are much more than Raleigh could ever hope for. I think Denver is mile high over a city like Phoenix,....especially the DT, but that is just me.

What I do like about the Denver area are the little things they do. Like when driving to Boulder and passing through Westminister and Broomfield, I really like the overpass bridges. They put on a little ornate barriers and it just looks nice. Plue put a little design in the area around the base of the bridge with faux rock or concrete design....it just looks nice.

I have said I could move to Boulder if I could afford it. Nice little DT.

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I have not visited Denver either but this is the first negative I heard about the city. Seems like everything I have read was upbeat and positive about the city.

It's funny that many people like Denver but some people are not impressed and do not like it. I can give an example. I met this woman in London a few years back (1999 ?-2000-?) at a show (Chicago). She was from Australia and just graduated Law School but had been travelling Europe for about 6 months working jobs and then moving to another location (get a waitress job). Basically just pushing out real life.

She had plans on going to the US (never had been here) and she started in NY and travelled by trains mostly across the US to SF. I just remember how she loved the US and the trains but said she went to Denver for 2 days and it was 2 days too long. So, it just depends on what you like.

I personally think what is outside of Denver is what makes Denver (RM National Park, Garden of the Gods, the ski slopes, Area around Red Rocks, Touring the Coors plant in Goldern, DT Boulder, Touring the Celestial Seasonings Tea Company, etc....

Again, just my opinion. Just like I hear people who would not go to Paris, yet it is my favorite city in the world.

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I was amazed by how flat Denver is.

Some time when you have a minute, load up Red Rocks Amphitheater on Google Earth and pan it over to Denver. That area looks really neat. (when we were there I was in 7th grade and we were laying over on our way to Vail, so we didn't really take in "Denver" so much - but we did manage to drive by Mile High and the old arena - I love arenas).

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Denver has a great downtown with a lot of shops and eateries. They have a large volume of infill occurring, and they will be getting two new tallest buildings in the coming years (similar to Raleigh). Lots of residential projects going up along with those.

Denver's light rail is really what I envision for Raleigh. It runs under the convention center and spiders out from downtown.

One interesting thing I noticed is that the 16th street mall they have actually worked. Unlike Raleigh's Fayetteville street, which was pedestrian only, 16th street has an exclusive bus system that stops at every block, so you can tour downtown Denver from the buses. They also have urban indoor malls being constructed, and something similar to our city market.

There are patchy areas, and outside of Denver proper, I would consider the metro area a lost cause as far as planning goes. With no prohibitive hills or woodlands, sprawl is quickly devouring everything. Meanwhile downtown is still having problems with crime and poverty.

Aside from that though, I would consider the city's current trend a successful one, and one we should try to emulate.

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"Best" is in the eye of the beholder. I struggle to fathom a sum of money one would need to pay me to get me to live in Cary. But that's me. I know other people love how "neat and clean" everything looks there.

It's interesting to note that most of the places on the Cary list are suburbs feeding off the employment base and cultural amenities of the larger nearby cities such as Raleigh, Chicago, Washington, Dallas, Minneapolis, etc. While all these well-to-do suburbs that exclude lower-income residents indirectly through zoning and development practices surely have low crime rates and good schools, it's important to remember that these places are riding the coattails of their bigger neighbors in multiple ways.

The cities adjacent to these suburbs provide a lot of trappings of big city life- excellent universities, major sports teams, first-rate symphonies, art museums, and opera companies, broad dining options, etc., that the suburban communities get to "ride free" on while avoiding some of the complications and problems of big cities. (higher crime, greater traffic, etc)

Great points - I live in Chapel Hill, which has plenty of it's own issues (actually, some of the issues mentioned above), but I like the Triangle, or it's potential at least, and the publicity lists like these cast on an area is flattering. But regardless of what Money thinks, any city (or suburb) too infatuated with it's own lack of funk is a no place to settle down in. After all, Washington DC (as an example) has crime and nasty traffic and scandals and blight and a tragic lack of affordability in lots of places, but it remains one of the most interesting cities in the country, problems be damned.

There's an interesting 'best cities' list in the current issue of Outdoor magazine, and Asheville is the NC city that makes that particular list. The editorial slant of Outdoor is as different from Money as you'll find, but Outdoor does remember to include downsides in each of their recommendations, like insane median home prices in some of their West Coast selections (a comical and extremely unflattering assessment of Boulder also appears, and given Outdoor's demographic, it will probably get them hate mail), and the over-reliance on service jobs in Asheville... Their insinuation that living in a garage or a yurt (!) is beginning to be viewed as an acceptible alternative living choice if you are unable to afford the $800k-$1,000,000 median home prices in a few spots is chilling.

Edited by davidals
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Money, Forbes, People, Mens Health, etc etc, basically any magazine that you will find at the checkout isle at a grocery store, routinely release these lists to drum up readership. They are pretty meaningless and if you tally them up, you will find that almost every big city in the USA has been on one of these lists one time or another. I would rather see an in depth article by one of the rags that get more into the issues of what is important here at UrbanPlanet as to what is succeeding and failing in making a city more liveable.

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I agree about the above comments about Denver. It reminded me a LOT of Raleigh: it's the obligatory presentation of a state capital, almost. It has to be "pleasant" but not necessarily outstanding in any way. I love Boulder. It's quirky, independent and has character in every one of its nooks and crannies.

Denver reminded me most of Raleigh because of the things that are around it, like Boulder, and beautiful scenery within close distances. Ask any person what they like about Raleigh and most of the time they'll say, "it's 2 hours from the beach and 3 hours from the mountains, and there's an airport you can get to any major hub from really conveniently."

But what about Raleigh itself do you like?

What specifically are the measures of "livability"?

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Money, Forbes, People, Mens Health, etc etc, basically any magazine that you will find at the checkout isle at a grocery store, routinely release these lists to drum up readership. They are pretty meaningless and if you tally them up, you will find that almost every big city in the USA has been on one of these lists one time or another. I would rather see an in depth article by one of the rags that get more into the issues of what is important here at UrbanPlanet as to what is succeeding and failing in making a city more liveable.

True about the in depth article. But these BEST's City/Town Listings do count for something and frankly Raleigh and the Triangle have been represented far more often than any other place in the south over the last decade or so w/ maybe Austin, TX being represented slightly moreso. But anywho, you simply can sleep on the fact that this is a great place to live, be a single individual, college student, raise a family, walk etc.

The Rankings say so. ;)

And for me I like specifically about RALEIGH the following things:

1. People and neighborhoods- There is a place for everybody from the lofts, and studios downtown to the apartments near NC State to the Mansions off of falls lake. A lot of young college people, A lot of families, and a lot of retirees.

2. Parks, Museums- Our constantly expanding parks and museum scene is great.

3. Climate- 4 distinct seasons with a occasional hurricane, flood or blizzard to break up the monotony.

4. Diversified Economy- Not to centered on one particular industry (like banking)

5. Progressive- Raleigh is getting there, bit by bit, I won't give up on the city yet. Especially with the last few years and new projects coming online shortly.

We belong on each and every one of these "Best Lists" :P

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I agree about the above comments about Denver. It reminded me a LOT of Raleigh: it's the obligatory presentation of a state capital, almost. It has to be "pleasant" but not necessarily outstanding in any way. I love Boulder. It's quirky, independent and has character in every one of its nooks and crannies.

Denver reminded me most of Raleigh because of the things that are around it, like Boulder, and beautiful scenery within close distances. Ask any person what they like about Raleigh and most of the time they'll say, "it's 2 hours from the beach and 3 hours from the mountains, and there's an airport you can get to any major hub from really conveniently."

But what about Raleigh itself do you like?

What specifically are the measures of "livability"?

That's such a good point. Geography definitely helps Raleigh and the Triangle. NC is a darn fine state to live in, and the beauty and weather are huge selling points. If Raleigh were in say...Kansas or something there's no way we would be on the map like we are. However, things are getting bigger and better to the point where we can stand out for our own merits. To be honest, Raleigh's best days are coming because until this point I think many of the things that make us unique (open-minded and diverse population, youth, innovation, music scene) have been aided greatly by Chapel Hill and Durham. As Raleigh continues to emerge in it's own right--the sky is the limit.

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I thought Denver was a pretty cool place myself, but I agree that it is the areas outside of Denver that make it special. The Rockies are a stunning backdrop.

The one thing about Denver and Colorado in general is it is a pretty cool place. I will give an example as I see it but this is just my opinion. Again, I talked with people in Denver every day. (In fact, I am on a phone call right now with them)

An example is if Denver/Boulder/suburbs came up with an idea of bike paths or some water cleaning system, or something that resembles "green" (now this is just my opinion) the people of the area, both left and right and all sides, would look at it and weigh what the proposal and more open to items like that.

I feel sometimes if it was the same subject here in Raleigh, the left would take one side and the right would take another and battle begins. I am sure Colorado has it own battles but the open-mindness of all sides appears to be a model the rest of the US could follow.

Of course, you have the Boulder Community, health/organic food capital along with Pete Coors/family and "Focus on the Family network" (2 hours away) so there is a wide array of political positions there.

Edited by Subway Scoundrel
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Okay. I didn't know this would spur so many comments about Denver. I TOTALLY agree about DT Denver. It is very clean and much more alivened than DT Raleigh. A great model for Raleigh. (oddly enough my in laws being from Seattle thought DT Denver was small, vertically and horizontally). But as put in another post the southside (between Englewood and Centennial) has a very tired look. Most houses are 40 to 50 years old. The wealthy areas like Greenwood Village and Cherry Hills with the multi million $$ mansions have an upkept look.

I fimrly believe the people who live in Colorado are here because they are outdoor enthusiasts. The Rocky Mountians provide a great playground for sure. But I like NC because we have both mountains and beaches and great, great golfing. In Colorado, they have to plant hundreds if not a couple thousand trees to replicate the great courses of the south becasue there are fewer trees on the Plains. But here we mow them down to cut a path.

Anywho, for me a great city to visit but the culture is too different for me. Plus I am a beach goer more than a mountian goer.

Edited by Cary NC
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But what about Raleigh itself do you like?

What specifically are the measures of "livability"?

Aside from the closeness to attractions for me, the beach, mountains, amusement parks....

I enjoy the people here. The weather is almost always nice, i can litterally golf anytime I want. There is plenty of shopping, great museums (and some that aren't so good), great walking trails, very good hiking, and some very good restaraunts. Pro Hockey is awesome, College Sports is always entertaining, and the Bulls (although in durham) are always a good night out.

I love the fact that this place is growing (for better or for worse). Places I've lived before Upstate NY, nothing was growing, almost everything was regressing, and Vermont, tree huggers have hijacked growth - even smart growth, there was nothing new.

Are there things I'd like to change? Yes -> But I like whats here.

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I feel like I'm one of the rare tranplants that didn't come here for weather....geography was a plus and I liked the people here. I like mountains and ocean---but I love seasons so California was out. I actually do like snow, so moving for weather was never a thought in my mind. That said, the weather here is wonderful with the exception of summer heat/humidity. I moved in to my first house about 4 months ago. With the exception of a few days--it's sunny here about every day. Over the 6 years I've lived in NC---it's just overwhelmingly sunny here. About 85-90 percent of the time it seems. I can't explain that to my midwestern family without it drawing some jealousy. Up there---it gets cloudy in November, and you're just not going to see much sun until May. I still can get my occasional snow here too :D

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According to Forbes magazine's' sixth annual Best Cities for Singles, Raleigh-Durham ranked #6. The rankings were based on nightlife, culture, job growth, number of other singles, cost of living alone, online dating and coolness. While I've always suspected such "lists" are pretty subjective and at least in part magazine marketing tools aimed at boosting advertising sales in certain markets, all in all I think we'd all agree it's better to be on the list than off! So what do you singles out there think? Better to be restless in Raleigh than sleepless in Seattle?? And what's with Atlanta at #16?? Like I'd really rather be single in Columbus, Ohio than ATL?? oh well like I said it's nice for RAL from a boosterism perspective anyhoo

Here's the top 10:

1. Denver-Boulder

2. Boston

3. Phoenix

4. San Francisco- Oakland

5. New York

6. Raleigh-Durham

7. Seattle

8. Austin

9. Washington- Baltimore

10. Miami

* for the full list: go to www.forbes.com/singles

Edited by guy4charlotte
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I'm sorry but we have no business being on this list. It's hard meeting people here, period. Forget the dating scene. Not that I'm complaining...Raleigh is viewed by outsiders as a cool area---and it really is. Just not the best for dating--at least I wouldn't think. Perhaps I'm wrong on that. Oh, and don't sleep on Columbus--very cool place actually. Lots of young people, open-minded growing city, affluent population, friendly, accepting of all types. OSU's there too, which I'm sure helps matters.

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I'm starting to think everyone thinks the town they live has a bad dating scene and that the grass is greener somewhere else. It really comes down to the type of people you're hoping to meet. Here are a couple examples: if you want self-centered people that are into fashion and trends then LA/OC and Miami are your spots. Elitist sophistication? Try New York. Like politics? The you have DC. Want some down-to-earth yet fun types: Charleston and Baltimore. Yes, you'll find all types in each metro area, but certain jobs and city attitudes tend to attract like-minded people.

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No. They named "Raleigh-Durham" (which I'd estimate really means the Triangle region) the #6 best place for singles. Maybe this should be called "Forbes ranks Raleigh-Durham #6 for singles.....right behind New York City?".

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