Wells Fargo Center Progress

[Padman]

I think the economic perspective is always the driver for local development, but it's a very broad and encompassing issue. A key part of that perspective is the demographics. It seems that seniors and particularly those anticipating assisted living needs are the best target for the new condos and apartments. This could well be the case for the next 20 years or even more. (P.S. marketers they are great supporters of the symphony).

We don't have high demand for high-rent yuppie pads because we don't have enough corporate presence (imagine 10 sailors sharing a 1100 square foot apartment). The tall office towers won't appear until some more industries are created or relocate here.

That Fort Norfolk project look like a defective thumb drive.

[erdogs]

We might want to delete these renderings of Fort Norfolk, before we get guest on here pointing and laughing!

[vdogg]

Tom, one thing I forgot to ask is do you plan on having a website for this development once things get further along?

[burt]

Tom, one thing I forgot to ask is do you plan on having a website for this development once things get further along?

And a live web cam?

[vtfan18]

I am familiar with Gallery Place as well. When you take into account the office building footprint, potential symphony site, and central parking garage site, we only have about 1.3 acres left for the developement of all of the retail and residential. The largest component by far is the central parking garage.

Therefore, you can see the limitations we face versus Gallery Place, and the reasons are this: in DC all parking is underground. In HR, because the water table is only six feet underground, it is physically impractical and financially infeasible to construct underground parking. And DC, especially right there at the MCI center, has HUGE transit, which we do not. Now, we will soon have light rail, but it is not the DC metro, and it will be many years before our light rail system can support retail without on-site parking.

Anyway, keep your comments coming, I really do welcome them.

Tom- I've read that parking garages are very expensive to construct upwards of 15K or more per space. Why is this? Is it just the skyrocketing price of concrete or am I missing something? Also, I always thought it was strange that part of the parking structure behind the Mark Barr building sits below surface level. The building where The Sevens bar will soon open on Granby has a basement, very rare to find downtown given the water table.

[lammius]

Tom- I've read that parking garages are very expensive to construct upwards of 15K or more per space. Why is this? Is it just the skyrocketing price of concrete or am I missing something? Also, I always thought it was strange that part of the parking structure behind the Mark Barr building sits below surface level. The building where The Sevens bar will soon open on Granby has a basement, very rare to find downtown given the water table.

The rising costs of concrete and other building materials contributes, but the construction of parking structures has never been very cheap. Structures can cost anywhere from $12,000-$15,000 per space for a basic open-air deck to closer to $30,000 per space for a closed, ventilated/sprinkler-equipped facility. The per-space equation accounts for the inclusion of costs of non-parking-space portions of the facility (ramps, elevators and stairs, ticket machines, etc.).

Even at such a cost, parking spaces are still significantly cheaper than leasable office or apartment space. Let's compare. We'll consider an office building's cost per square foot GLA (gross leasable area) and consider a parking facility where the parking spaces are the GLA equivalent. The average parking space is 170 square feet. At $15,000 per parking space, we get a constr. cost of $88 per square foot. Your average Class A office building costs between $250-$300 per square foot GLA. Parking isn't cheap, but it's not nearly as expensive as occupiable office space.

[vdogg]

I like this rendering better. It's far more detailed and gives the tower a more slender look.

[gosscj]

This is going to be a great project. The last time I was in town (which, coincidentally was just days before this project was announced) I was walking past the future site of this Wachovia development and I thought just how much effect a tower or two would have at that spot. Together with Granby Tower, this project will absolutely transform the northern end of downtown from a peripheral area of secondary importance to an active area that is fully a part of downtown. The federal courthouse, AT&T building, and the various smaller sites will be more fully integrated into the downtown landscape. not to mention this extension of downtown, including the current projects that are revitalizing Boush St (though really it is just filling in an area that is already technically a part of downtown, just sort of empty), will complete the connection between downtown and the Freemason neighborhood all the way up to Brambleton. Regardless of what these projects do or do not do for the skyline, that is of secondary significance next to what they will do for filling in the empty spaces in Norfolk's urban center - a contribution that I think we sometimes don't fully realize.

[tomj]

The rising costs of concrete and other building materials contributes, but the construction of parking structures has never been very cheap. Structures can cost anywhere from $12,000-$15,000 per space for a basic open-air deck to closer to $30,000 per space for a closed, ventilated/sprinkler-equipped facility. The per-space equation accounts for the inclusion of costs of non-parking-space portions of the facility (ramps, elevators and stairs, ticket machines, etc.).

Even at such a cost, parking spaces are still significantly cheaper than leasable office or apartment space. Let's compare. We'll consider an office building's cost per square foot GLA (gross leasable area) and consider a parking facility where the parking spaces are the GLA equivalent. The average parking space is 170 square feet. At $15,000 per parking space, we get a constr. cost of $88 per square foot. Your average Class A office building costs between $250-$300 per square foot GLA. Parking isn't cheap, but it's not nearly as expensive as occupiable office space.

I could go into more specifics here, but lammius basically gets things right. Providing adequate parking for dense, urban developements is hugely expensive, and almost always exceeds the land cost.

[spiker3]

I could go into more specifics here, but lammius basically gets things right. Providing adequate parking for dense, urban developements is hugely expensive, and almost always exceeds the land cost.

Not to be the smart@$$ here, but is that why there's parking spaces in front of the tower in the rendering? Is that just artist's interpretation, or will there actually be parking spaces...

[vdogg]

Not to be the smart@$ here, but is that why there's parking spaces in front of the tower in the rendering? Is that just artist's interpretation, or will there actually be parking spaces...

I think those parking spaces may be for the retail portion, just like you see along Granby. I'm assuming they will be metered as well. Of course tomj can answer this far better than I can though.

[Seven Cities]

Not to be the smart@$$ here, but is that why there's parking spaces in front of the tower in the rendering? Is that just artist's interpretation, or will there actually be parking spaces...

Good point. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the light rail line going down Monticello? Unless this building is set back from the street that going to be one TIGHT area with the rail line, a lane of traffic, and parking spaces.

[vdogg]

Good point. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the light rail line going down Monticello? Unless this building is set back from the street that going to be one TIGHT area with the rail line, a lane of traffic, and parking spaces.

I forgot all about light rail. It lools like those spaces are recessed though and the building itself set back from the street some.

[Sky06]

Regardless of what these projects do or do not do for the skyline, that is of secondary significance next to what they will do for filling in the empty spaces in Norfolk's urban center - a contribution that I think we sometimes don't fully realize.

Another thing we tend to forget about is that buildings such as these bring workers, shop and restaurant patrons, and potential residents to downtown. Although this building will partially be a shuffling of current DT workers, it will both create additional available space in existing buildings and add new space as well. "People" means "Life. Celebrated Daily." Sorry.

[urbanvb]

Life Celebrated Daily - kinda kitchy but kinda cool.

[Sky06]

I was walking past the future site of this Wachovia development and I thought just how much effect a tower or two would have at that spot.

Also, the shops will look much much better than that parking lot with the giant planters.

[vdogg]

tomj-

One question I forgot to ask, or perhaps it's been explained already and I missed it, but will any portion of the tower include speculative space or will it all be leased prior to construction?

[mistermetaj]

I also have a question. Why did the architect choose more brick and generic colors for the lowrise portion than a more modern look with glass?

[tomj]

tomj-

One question I forgot to ask, or perhaps it's been explained already and I missed it, but will any portion of the tower include speculative space or will it all be leased prior to construction?

It is our expectation that 80% of the building's 250,000 square feet will be leased prior to going under construction in March of 2008.

[vdogg]

It is our expectation that 80% of the building's 250,000 square feet will be leased prior to going under construction in March of 2008.

March? So you've decided to move up the construction date or did the pilot just have it wrong when they said mid-2008? (I'm all for starting earlier mind you. Just curious).

[tomj]

I forgot all about light rail. It lools like those spaces are recessed though and the building itself set back from the street some.

We hope to have on street parking. It results in a more comfortable sidewalk experience for pedestrians, shoppers and diners. It may not be possible due to LRT, but we would prefer to have it.

[tomj]

I also have a question. Why did the architect choose more brick and generic colors for the lowrise portion than a more modern look with glass?

I believe the low-rise portion you refer to are the apartments above the retail. A curtain wall of glass would not be an appropriate facade material for apartments, and it much to expensive for apartment rents to support. The exterior materials of the apartments will likely be brick and concrete panels and large windows, just not window walls.

March? So you've decided to move up the construction date or did the pilot just have it wrong when they said mid-2008? (I'm all for starting earlier mind you. Just curious).

We have always planned to begin construction in March of 2008. The first few months of construction, however, will be demolition, site work and piling, so you certainly won't see vertical construction for several months after March.

[vdogg]

We have always planned to begin construction in March of 2008. The first few months of construction, however, will be demolition, site work and piling, so you certainly won't see vertical construction for several months after March.

Ah, I understand. Well, that's good to hear though. Any movement on that will be nice to see, even if it's not going vertical. Some people consider "construction" to be after all site prep and piling are done and when foundation work is complete. I've always considered it to begin when site prep/demolition work starts (though after the delays with Granby Tower, I may change my view on that a bit )

[lil-bear]

I have a question tomj!

Are there any potential tenants that might cause the tower to grow in height?

[vdogg]

I have a question tomj!

Are there any potential tenants that might cause the tower to grow in height?

Honestly, i'm happy if this project goes through as is with no major problems. Height will come one day, but if this project makes it through without any of the major hiccups some of the other projects have seen, it will be a definate plus.