Conspiracy theories!

[Justadude]

Wow I wasn't aware of MacArthur's comment.

That's because, predictably, it's not real.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/macarthur.asp

[Charlotteman]

strangly Ronald Reagan said something very similar in one of his speeches to the United Nations about us looking past our differences and come together to and face an alien threat from another world.

I wouldn't put too much credence in the things Ronald Reagan said. After all, before politics, his former claim to fame was as the actor in "Bedtime for Bonzo"---where ol' Ronnie Ray Gun shared the lead role with a chimpanzee.hehhee

I remember when Reagan said that. At the time I thought it was goofy. Now 20 yrs later, I think it was a truly absurd thing for him to have said.

[Raintree21]

That's because, predictably, it's not real.

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/macarthur.asp

What?!?!?! One of the outlandish conspiracy theories posted on here isn't true? Say it isn't so!

[Charlotteman]

re:Scientology

Another interesting tidbit illustrating the M.O. of Scientology has come to light. Some years ago, a group Cult Awareness Network (CAN) was started to combat cult groups like Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones, Scientology etc. It became a resource for alarmed family members to come together.

But Scientology found itself under attack by CAN, and the old dirty tricks came into play. 50 Scientologists simultaneously sued CAN, and caused CAN's coffers to be emptied by attorney fees.

So CAN went bankrupt, and was sold at auction to the highest bidder. Well guess who the high bidder was? The Church of Scientology! Scientology got CAN for $20,000.

So now when people call CAN for help with cult-addled family members, little do they know they are speaking to brainwashed Scientologists! And of course CAN's literature is now full of praise for the Church of Scientology.

[cityboi]

This is clearly a HUGE!! glowing object and the outline shape of the opject is a disk. On top of that you can clearly see the amunition exploded before it reaches the object as if the craft has "shields" The motion footage confirms that to as you can see the flashes. Keep in mind the US government said it was a weather balloon just like in Roswell. Based on this photo you be the judge. I didnt know weather balloons were shaped like disks and were that huge. I also didnt know they glowed and that a weather balloon or even a blimp could survive a bombardment of ammunition without bringing it down. Nevertheless this incedent was never explained by the US government other than them saying it was a weather balloon. There were thousands of witnesses that reported a huge object silently hovering in the sky. Personally I think there is more UFO evidence with this incedent than Roswell because no explaination for the LA raid makes sense other than a UFO. It is a FACT that the army fired on this object for over an hour yet the object remained in the sky. That defies all logic yet it happened.

origional photo from the Los Angeles Times in 1942

[cityboi]

The origional photo from the LA Times

LA Raid testimonies from eyewitnesses in 1942

According to newspaper reports, eyewitnesses described the sight of the UFO like a "surreal, hanging, magic lantern.

-Woman Air Raid Warden Gives Testimony: "It was huge! It was just enormous! And it was practically right over my house. I had never seen anything like it in my life!"

Some of the most intriguing testimony of the UFO comes from a woman who was a volunteer Air Raid Warden. She lived like many others, in fear of another Japanese attack. Nothing, however, could prepare her for what she so clearly witnessed the night of the giant UFO. Shaken awake by a call from her supervisor, she was briefed on the situation. Living not far from Santa Monica, she was told the object was close enough for her to see from her window. Peeking out of her window, she was shocked at the sight of the massive UFO above. She described the sight as follows:

"It was huge! It was just enormous! And it was practically right over my house. I had never seen anything like it in my life!" she said. "It was just hovering there in the sky and hardly moving at all."

"It was a lovely pale orange and about the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. I could see it perfectly because it was very close. It was big!"

"They sent fighter planes up and I watched them in groups approach it and then turn away. There were shooting at it but it didn't seem to matter."

(The photo and film footage confirms these statements as ammo elpoded before reaching the object)

"It was like the Fourth of July but much louder. They were firing like crazy but they couldn't touch it."

"I'll never forget what a magnificent sight it was. Just marvelous. And what a gorgeous color!", she said

excerpts from the LA Times in 1942

Identity of Aircraft Veiled in Mystery; No Bombs Dropped and No Enemy Craft Hit

Overshadowing a nation-wide maelstrom of rumors and conflicting reports, the Army's Western Defense Command insisted that Los Angeles' early morning blackout and anti-aircraft action were the result of unidentified aircraft sighted over the beach area. In two official statements, issued while Secretary of the Navy Knox in Washington was attributing the activity to a false alarm and "jittery nerves," the command in San Francisco confirmed and reconfirmed the presence over the Southland of unidentified planes. Relayed by the Southern California sector office in Pasadena, the second statement read: "The aircraft which caused the blackout in the Los Angeles area for several hours this a.m. have not been identified." Insistence from official quarters that the alarm was real came as hundreds of thousands of citizens who heard and saw the activity spread countless varying stories of the episode. The spectacular anti-aircraft barrage came after the 14th Interceptor Command ordered the blackout when strange craft were reported over the coastline. Powerful searchlights from countless stations stabbed the sky with brilliant probing fingers while anti-aircraft batteries dotted the heavens with beautiful, if sinister, orange bursts of shrapnel.

[Charlotteman]

It always seemed notable to me that major UFO sightings were never followed up by a military response----i.e. the army "never shot at them". A great example is the Lights Over Phoenix event. A MAJOR display of aerial craft over a large American city, and no military response.

But in the 1942 Battle of L.A., the American military sure did fire on the craft! The military was obviously giving it all they had, and the craft was not damaged. This makes the Battle of L.A. incident quite unique.

[cityboi]

But in the 1942 Battle of L.A., the American military sure did fire on the craft! The military was obviously giving it all they had, and the craft was not damaged. This makes the Battle of L.A. incident quite unique.

Thats why its baffling to me why everyone has ignored this event despite the photographic/film evidence, the army's reaction and the testimony from people in 1942. It was a real event. The Army was firing at something for over an hour and what ever it was, the object was not damaged. The film shows this! You cant fire at something in one spot with that much ammo for over an hour without bringing it down. That clearly says that it was something of a non-human adavanced technology. People got killed from the ammo shells falling for pete sakes so yes it was a very real event and was an event that defies all logic. There is only one explaination for the event which is that the object was indeed a UFO. UFO reserachers could crack the case open once and for all if they investigated this event as much as they did with Roswell. The goverenment has NO explaination for the Los Angeles event other than the fact that it was "a weather ballon" (the same story they used with Roswell) and that totally doesnt make any sense considering what the photo/footage shows and what really happened. Since the goverenment still sticks by that statement, its obvious that they are still covering up the incedent to this very day. People are so closed minded about the subject, even when direct evidence is staring them in the face, they still cant believe it.

[Justadude]

Now this is an interesting event indeed, and definitely fits under the "conspiracy theories" category regardless of what the real story was. It's pretty obvious, from the conflicting military statements afterward, that there was a lot of scrambling in the Pentagon to get a press-friendly explanation together.

Obviously there is no official explanation for the event that makes any sense, but here are a few observations that I think may shed some light on the incident:

- This took place less than three months after Pearl Harbor, one day after a Japanese submarine shelled Santa Barbara (the first attack on the US mainland in WWII), and about three months before several other Japanese attacks on the Pacific Coast. So needless to say there was significant military activity in the area at that time.

- Despite popular perception, anti-aircraft ordinance during WWII was not intended to actually strike enemy aircraft -- flak shells were set to explode near the enemy and take them down with shrapnel. The fact that shells exploded around this object, and not actually on its surface, was not unusual in the least (watch old WWII dogfight films to see the same effect).

- There are many reports of enemy airplanes flying in formation at normal speeds during this attack, but there is a lot of disagreement on this point and no photographic evidence. I find it unlikely that these reports are completely invented, yet it is obvious that whoever was flying the planes didn't intend to be seen or to engage in combat.

My conclusion, based on the evidence in total: it would have been highly advantageous to the Japanese to know the location of artillery batteries around Los Angeles. Bear in mind that at the time some of the nation's biggest military production facilities were located in LA. It makes perfect sense that, rather than engaging in actual combat with entrenched enemy forces, the Japanese would have basically lofted a bright, easy target over the city and performed surveillance to figure out where anti-aircraft fire originated. This would have given them a reliable map of the city's defense facilities.

The only thing I can't figure is what exactly was at the center of the incident. Maybe some kind of balloon or blimp, perhaps burning helium in order to make a clear target and inflict some psychological damage on the city. Once out of helium it would have simply drifted back into the ocean (my understanding is that the object was actually located several miles off the coast). Without any real evidence, it's impossible to know; but the notion that Japanese submarines were launching "jabs" at the coastal defense system requires fewer stretches of the imagination and is better in line with established history than the UFO hypothesis.

[cityboi]

The problem with your theory is that it was reported that the object took direct hits which goes against the ordinance you mentioned. The hits also did not cause any damage. You say it was a common practice not to directly hit the enemy yet the media at the time seemed dumbfounded why the US Army was missing this object. Also the fact of the US goverenments still denies what happen is a clue. Why not say it was the Japanese after all this time?

another thing to note.....if it were terrestrial, the only thing it could have been was a blimp/balloon because it traveled slowly and hovered silently (no airplane in 1942 had those characteristics).....however The only problem is the first balloons were launched by the Japanese on Nov. 3, 1944. This event happened in February of 1942 and based on eyewitness accounts it couldnt have been a balloon because the object glowed very brightly. American balloon experts also opined it unlikely that the Japanese would use blimps since they had no fireproof helium to fill them and a blimp filled with explosive hydrogen gas would be even more unlikely to survive. A balloon of whatever form would surely have been burst by the shrapnel exploding the near or direct hits scored by the anti-aircraft shells in the over an hours time they had to target the sitting duck. It was either a balloon or a UFO and we know it wasnt a balloon.

This is one case thats never really been debunked.

[Justadude]

The problem with your theory is that it was reported that the object took direct hits which goes against the ordinance you mentioned.

In a post only a few lines above you say that the ordnance "clearly" exploded before it reached the object as if it were surrounded by invisible "shields". Now you are saying it took direct hits. One of these statements is false; probably the latter, considering anti-aircraft flak is not designed to create a direct hit. It is impossible to know whether the shells caused damage or not; all we know is that the object didn't immediately crash.

I readily concede that it seems odd that a 1,500-round barrage (minus the misses and unexploded shells) didn't immediately cause it to crash; however, I don't have the specialized knowledge to know whether the Japanese possessed the technology to launch a craft that could float for an hour despite taking shrapnel hits. Given the technological innovation of WWII, I suspect that they could have designed such a thing; but I don't know for certain. Do you?

The only problem is the first balloons were launched by the Japanese on Nov. 3, 1944. This event happened in February of 1942 and based on eyewitness accounts it couldnt have been a balloon because the object glowed very brightly.

It's not like balloons were invented in 1944; if the Japanese were serious about using them for military purposes, there's no valid reason to dismiss the possibility that one could have been used two years earlier than 1944.

Besides, you are saying it is impossible to make a balloon glow brightly, but that it is likely that invincible alien spacecraft are making observation visits to Los Angeles? Come on now.

American balloon experts also opined it unlikely that the Japanese would use blimps since they had no fireproof helium to fill them and a blimp filled with explosive hydrogen gas would be even more unlikely to survive. A balloon of whatever form would surely have been burst by the shrapnel exploding the near or direct hits scored by the anti-aircraft shells in the over an hours time they had to target the sitting duck.

In other words, the only way that this could have been a terrestrial object is if the Japanese were capable of creating a dirigible that produced light, and could float high in the atomosphere despite taking shrapnel hits.

Well... is it reasonable to believe that the Japanese could have done this? I tend to think so, considering balloons were part of their strategy in attacking the Pacific Coast. If this object's sole purpose was to be a temporary target of anti-aircraft fire, I see no reason to believe that Japanese engineers would have been incapable of constructing it.

It's true that the case has not been debunked, and in the absence of dramatic evidence one way or another it can never be proven one way or another. So we have to rely on reason and logic to figure it out. Personally, I find it much more plausible that this was a military maneuver by the Japanese, who sent up a bright obvious target in order to reveal American artillery positions, than that it was an alien spacecraft that hovered for a while, then left and never came back. Wouldn't you agree that the former is more likely than the latter?

[cityboi]

It was reported that the object took direct hits but didnt phase the object, many shots exploded before hitting the object. There is no contradiction with those statements but nevertheless, the fact that the US government will not further comment on the incendent should tell alot of people something. If it were the Japanese, why wont the government say it after all these years? instead we heard a couple of crazy reports from the government saying it was a weather balloon or that the army was shooting at nothing or smoke and it was a false alarm. There are just too many things that dont add up and the army obviously tried to sweep this incedent under the rug.

[Justadude]

^ Actually, if you look at the flurry of press releases and memos that were sent back and forth after the incident, it's clear that it was the Army who kept the incident from being swept under the rug. Here's the sequence of events:

- Feb 23, 6:00pm - Friendly Japanese sources in Los Angeles report a rumor circulating within the local Japanese community that the city will be attacked that night.

- Feb 23, 7:05pm - A Japanese submarine shells the oil installations at Ellwood, CA for 20 minutes.

- Feb 24, 7:18pm - Naval intelligence warns of an impending attack within 10 hours; flares and blinking lights are reported at nearby defense plants and oilfields. The warning is lifted at 10:23.

- Feb 25, 1:44am - Patrol aircraft report an "unidentified aerial target".

- Feb 25, 2:15am - Object detected by radar 120 miles off the coast; antiaircraft batteries prepared for combat. The Air Force decides to keep its small fleet grounded until more detail emerged.

- Feb 25, 2:21am - Blackout ordered. Reports of "enemy planes" begin to come in, but no large object is reported.

- Feb 25, 2:43am - About 25 planes reported flying over Long Beach; a few minutes later they are reported above Los Angeles.

- Feb 25, 3:00am - Colonel Watson of the 203rd CA observes a balloon but confirms that the meteorological laboratory had sent one up earlier. He orders his batteries to hold their fire. Captain Molder, also of the 203rd, observes the balloon and orders his units to open fire.

- Feb 25, 3:06am - A "balloon carrying a red flare" reported over Santa Monica. A few minutes later, anti-aircraft batteries open fire at a balloon over Los Angeles. One enemy plane is said to have been confirmed hit and set on fire.

- Feb 25, 3:55am - "Another" balloon is targeted over Santa Monica. At this point several aircraft had been targeted before passing out to sea, though it is quite possible that they were the same units making return runs. Groups of 15 planes in formation are consistently reported by several reliable sources.

- Feb 25, 7:20am - Blackout lifted due to sunrise, despite the fact that lights had come on all over Hollywood over half an hour earlier (leave it to Hollywood). Authorities find no damage from bombs or downed aircraft; several civilians had been killed by falling shells, heart attacks and accidents in the blacked-out streets. Several more were arrested for failure to maintain the blackout.

- Feb 25, 7:30 am - Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox issues a press statement that the incident had been a false alarm caused by "nerves".

- Feb 26 - Army Chief of Staff George Marshall issues a memo to President Roosevelt confirming the presence of unidentified aircraft over LA, and speculates that they may have been either enemy or civilian aircraft. This directly contradicts Knox's press release.

- Feb 26 - Roosevelt issues a memo to Secretary of War Harry Stimson complaining that non-Army officials (Knox) had made inappropriate comments regarding an air alarm.

- March 22 - General Dewitt reports officially that 1-5 planes had been sighted over LA, acknowledges the possibility that they could have been Japanese aircraft, speculates that they were more probably civlians in commercial planes, and blames the Army for not shooting them down.

Putting all this evidence together, along with the presence of many Japanese submarines, aircraft and balloons over the West Coast in the ensuing months, I see this incident as most likely military in nature. Could it have been an alien (as you say) or civilians (as Marshall and Dewitt say)? Possibly... nobody can disprove those theories. But the most likely explanation is Japanese military activity for the purpose of reconnaissance and fearmongering.

[cityboi]

That still doesnt mean it wasnt a UFO. Many times UFOs have been reported during "conflicts" or near nuclear facilties. Bottom line....the object in the sky that night doesnt add up to a Japanese craft, balloon or plane. With 1,300 rounds of ammo going up in over an hours time, you are going to bring down whats in the sky. That didnt happen in this particular case. Even the audio cbs news guy at the time announced how the shots seem to be hitting the object with no affect. Now there may have been Japanese aircraft in the area but this particular craft was not of Japanese orgin based on what happened that night. There were alot of things flying around the air that night.

[Charlotteman]

Prior to, and during WWII, Germany was probably the most technologically advanced nation on earth. Was Japan's military-industrial complex advanced enough to pull off something like the craft seen at the Battle of L.A.?

Even today, 65 years later, is there any known man-made craft able to sustain an extended attack without compromise? Civilians died from falling schrapnel, so we know for sure that things were exploding around the UFO.

[Miesian Corners]

Sorry, I'm still on the Scientology kick. It's fascinating (and incredibly scary). In the 80s L Ron Hubbard's book, Dianetics, was on the NY Times best seller list. How? the Church of Scientology would buy them all back, then redistribute them again to book stores. Clever, eh?

[Justadude]

Even today, 65 years later, is there any known man-made craft able to sustain an extended attack without compromise? Civilians died from falling schrapnel, so we know for sure that things were exploding around the UFO.

Again, it is a false inference to suggest that the craft was not "compromised" by the shelling. For all we know it had holes like swiss cheese and was on fire the entire time. Does anyone here know whether a helium balloon, on fire from exploding ordnance and drifting at an altitude likely to contain sharp updrafts, would float for a significant period of time before drifting away? I would tend to think it might.

I remain amused that so many people will accept the plausibility of an alien visitor, depsite the MAJOR scientific assumptions required to believe such a story, while sharply denying even the remote possibility that the Japanese war machine could make an object float and glow at the same time. The more I look into this incident, the more certain it seems to me that the "battle" was in fact a Japanese air raid concurrent with a flaming balloon, either a meteorological one or a military one.

[cityboi]

I find it amusing that people think 1,300 rounds of ammo being fired for an hour and a half at a stationary target cant bring down a balloon. Thats absurd. As I said before, the governement til this day still wont say what it was. If it were a Japanese craft why wont they just say it? there is nothing secretive about that. Its like the Roswell stuff. The goverenment waited 50 years just to say the crash was a secret weather balloon called Project Mogul. At the same time Project Mogul had already been declassified for years so we no thats a lie.

Every thing you've presented is conjecture. Its real easy to say it must have been a Japanese aircraft because they are in the area. You can always try to make logical sense out of something even if some else extrodinary happened.

[Charlotteman]

Again, it is a false inference to suggest that the craft was not "compromised" by the shelling. For all we know it had holes like swiss cheese and was on fire the entire time.

After an hour and a half of intense shelling, with 1500 rounds, ANYTHING would be blown to smitherines! How could anything "float away" if it has been blown into a million pieces?

I'm among the super-skeptics. I think 99% of UFO sightings are indeed military oriented. But this sighting is obviously different. The craft was clearly immune from super-heavy military attack. It continued to hover and it was not compromised.

The only alternative I can think of is the possibility it was a top-secret experiment on holograms (?)

[Justadude]

Once I looked at the original reports of the incident, not websites trying to make the case for a UFO sighting, I found that 1,500 rounds of ammo were used during the entire raid. Almost all of them were shot at enemy planes (or at least things believed to be enemy planes), not at this glowing target. There is no count of how many rounds were shot at this object, but if you look at the timeline above you'll see that at least some units were ordered to ignore it. So the sources who want you to believe this was an alien spacecraft are twisting the facts to make this object seem invincible, when there is no objective evidence that it wasn't shredded by a relatively small amount of flak. All we have to go on is one blurry picture of a dozen rounds exploding in the general vicinity.

Cityboi, the military has not "denied" anything regarding this case. They simply don't have a definitive answer as to what the object was. It's obvious that Frank Knox (Navy) wanted to sweep the incident under the rug for image purposes, but that George Marshall (Army) wasn't willing to do so... yet in the Army's own reports it can only offer speculation about what the object was since it drifted out to sea behind an artillery haze. But the fact that the Armed Forces can't identify something, doesn't mean it is extraterrestrial in nature. Again, there are at least two very likely terrestrial explanations for this incident (weather balloon vs. Japanese decoy), which are both far more plausible than the alien hypothesis.

[cityboi]

The Army fired at that thing stationary in the sky for an hour and a half and could not bring it down. Clearly the craft was unusual to not be brought down after an hour + of ammo bombardment. No one is saying there werent any enemies planes in the area but this object was not an enemy plane and was different. Im sorry but the balloon story doesnt fly because it would not have survived an hour of ammo. If its not a balloon and the thing flies silently what could it have been?

"Caught by the searchlights and captured in photographs, was an object big enough to dwarf an apartment house. Experienced lighter-than-air (dirigible) specialists doubted it could be a Japanese blimp because the Japanese had no known source of helium, and hydrogen was much too dangerous to use under combat conditions."

"Herald Express staffer said he was sure many shells hit it directly. He was amazed it had not been shot down"

[Charlotteman]

Sorry, I'm still on the Scientology kick. It's fascinating (and incredibly scary). In the 80s L Ron Hubbard's book, Dianetics, was on the NY Times best seller list. How? the Church of Scientology would buy them all back, then redistribute them again to book stores. Clever, eh?

Tom Cruise has emerged as Scientology's poster child. He had an interesting interaction with journalist Matt Lauer in which he ranted and raved against psychiatry. It's on youtube and linked below.

Isn't it a laugh riot that Tom Cruise, a man with a high school education, thinks he knows better than medical doctors! In the video he gets very intense, and seems sinister toward Lauer.

[erdogs]

Tom Cruise is nuts!!! I can see him and Holmes living on a compound someday waiting for their creators to come save them.

[cityboi]

A mile long UFO spotted in Texas

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2008...ufo.search.wfaa

[Justadude]

Im sorry but the balloon story doesnt fly because it would not have survived an hour of ammo. If its not a balloon and the thing flies silently what could it have been?

Now hold on just a second... is there a realiable source that says the glowing object was in the sky for an hour? I assumed that this was true from the first post, but having read over the newspaper and military reports of the incident several times now, all I can find is that the entire incident lasted just over an hour. That includes quite a lot of time shooting at small airplanes, not at the "UFO". This is the same error that was made in the statement that 1500 rounds of ammo were shot at it, when in fact 1500 rounds were used at many targets.

The more I read into this, the more it sounds like it's constructed of the typical elements of an urban legend: quotes out of context, half-truths, and a lot of speculation. I was going to write a longer response but I'd rather hold off until we can confirm from a primary source that this object was actually targeted for the length of time that has been reported in this thread.