The two South Carolinas

[monsoon]

.....They will still tell you they are poor and hungry......

[krazeeboi]

Chill and stop making this a personal attack on me. Not a very fitting way for a moderator to act.

[The_sandlapper]

There is alot to be said in investing in human capital. I know it's unpopular in a lot of stagnant old idea areas but the idea of investing in the people, or community does make a difference. Perfect examples are places that traditionally started out poor ie (NC, CA, OR) all those many years ago. Not left with many options they invested in there people and that is why they have been successful. SC can't quite seem to get that concept yet. It's almost like mideval europe where the theological notion of government still rule and influence state laws, ordinances, etc... It's a mixed bag of wanting to have your cake and eat it too! We want to be known as a great place to live and excepting of everyone, as long as you meet our certain criteria. The rest of the world isn't on SC time and so therefore doesn't have to conform to SC popular thought. Many times people of SC have said well if you don't like it leave it, well that's exactly just what has been done. NC & GA I'm sure are greatful for SC's arrogance, and inability to adapt. For instance how much money could actually be saved in SC on Sunday from going to NC on Sunday's. One can buy liquor and sin any other day of the week why is Sunday any different. Those who drink on Sunday are just gonna buy it Sat. night and drink on Sun. anyway or if they lived in a border city like I did then they will just cross state lines and buy it! Sometimes doing what's best for the people may leave big business out, but I guarantee once the people in that area are successful big business will still want to come play. It's sad because SC has so much potential, just as much if not more to be just as successful as NC, or GA have been. But it's hard to take a place seriously that continues to so tenaciously hold on to the ideas of how things were, this is how we have done it for years, don't try to change us thank you very much. Eventhough there has been progress made it is still light years behind it's neighbors, and until SC creates an environment for it's best and brightest to stay and prosper the state will continue to loose, and be ranked pretty much in most things that are known detrimentel.

[The_sandlapper]

Oh boy, this sounds like Alabama all over again. I will say it again, Alabama, South Carolina, and Louisiana (to a lesser extent) have A LOT in common. It's sad to see how fast certain states drive themselves into the ground just to perserve the elite and underprivlege divide.

[krazeeboi]

The rest of the world isn't on SC time and so therefore doesn't have to conform to SC popular thought.

[gs3]

There is alot to be said in investing in human capital. I know it's unpopular in a lot of stagnant old idea areas but the idea of investing in the people, or community does make a difference. Perfect examples are places that traditionally started out poor ie (NC, CA, OR) all those many years ago. Not left with many options they invested in there people and that is why they have been successful. SC can't quite seem to get that concept yet. It's almost like mideval europe where the theological notion of government still rule and influence state laws, ordinances, etc... It's a mixed bag of wanting to have your cake and eat it too! We want to be known as a great place to live and excepting of everyone, as long as you meet our certain criteria. The rest of the world isn't on SC time and so therefore doesn't have to conform to SC popular thought. Many times people of SC have said well if you don't like it leave it, well that's exactly just what has been done. NC & GA I'm sure are greatful for SC's arrogance, and inability to adapt. For instance how much money could actually be saved in SC on Sunday from going to NC on Sunday's. One can buy liquor and sin any other day of the week why is Sunday any different. Those who drink on Sunday are just gonna buy it Sat. night and drink on Sun. anyway or if they lived in a border city like I did then they will just cross state lines and buy it! Sometimes doing what's best for the people may leave big business out, but I guarantee once the people in that area are successful big business will still want to come play. It's sad because SC has so much potential, just as much if not more to be just as successful as NC, or GA have been. But it's hard to take a place seriously that continues to so tenaciously hold on to the ideas of how things were, this is how we have done it for years, don't try to change us thank you very much. Eventhough there has been progress made it is still light years behind it's neighbors, and until SC creates an environment for it's best and brightest to stay and prosper the state will continue to loose, and be ranked pretty much in most things that are known detrimentel.

[The_sandlapper]

Unfortunately, too many of our lawmakers haven't realized that this isn't 1840's South Carolina anymore (thank GOD!!!!).

[The_sandlapper]

Worded very well.

While some disagreed with me a few minutes ago for using "human element" and "quality of life", the human side is where the rubber meets the road. From the looks of SC's history, the state has thrown cheap land and cheap labor out as the calling card for companies, while ignoring quality of life. A few of the urban areas have focused on quality of life, and while this may raise a ranking or a number slightly on various list, it's done nothing for the lives of the people as a whole. I think focusing on the human element / quality of life is both a government responsibility as well as an individual responsibility. It should start in school. Civics and citzenship should be taught along side math. Arts should be just as important as math. Values and work ethic should be instilled both at home and in school. There should be no reason that Florence or the I-95 corridor can not have a better quality of life. The key is the human element....changing the attitudes of both the rich who would like to keep things as is and changing the attitudes of poor who are apathetic about circumstances.

[gs3]

Cheap land and labor used as a big business calling card is a perfect example of what not to do unless you are taxing the hell out of those companies! One state that I look at that was absolutely raped by this notion of cheap land and labor was West Virginia. Cheap land (what the hell do we do with a mountain, cheap labor large informally uneducated population) My girlfriend is from there and is an expert in exploitation of labor force (wonder why). Anyway that state was pimped by big time steel back in the day for its coal. So what happened was all of WV's natural resources ie coal was shipped to Pennsylvania to make steel. Big time steel companies stayed in PA there so guess where all of WV potential capital went (next time your in Pittsburgh just take a look at Carnegie Mellon University and see what the blood, sweat, and tears of WV help to build for the people of PA. Companies made it so there was no free trade, if you were a miner you had to live on the company land, but company tools, pay the co. to live in there substandard shacks (see Wal-Mart and China), you didn't get paid US currency you were paid with coupons that were only good at company stores. It's really sad what happened. Given its natural resources and what coal ment at the time WV should easily been one of the wealthiest states hands down.

[The_sandlapper]

SC citizens have to be ready for a higher quality of life.....they have to demand it of their government and they have to demand it from themselves.

[krazeeboi]

It's easier to move someplace with likeminds than to change a system that's been pretty much been written in stone since before the American civil war.

[krazeeboi]

I just thought I'd post these statistics here. They are the per capita incomes (according to 2005 statistics) for all Southern MSAs with residents of 500,000-1,000,000.

1. Sarasota-Bradenton-Venice, FL : $40,112

2. Raleigh-Cary: $35,186

3. Cape Coral-Fort Myers: $34,059

4. Tulsa: $33,920

5. Little Rock: $32,399

6. Palm Bay-Melbourne-Titusville, FL: $31,359

7. Knoxville: $31,238

8. Columbia: $30,927

9. Greensboro: $30,909

10. Jackson: $30,830

11. Charleston, SC: $30,514

12. Baton Rouge: $29,702

13. Greenville: $29,636

14. Augusta-Richmond County: $28,105

15. Lakeland, FL: $27,938

16. El Paso: $22,775

17. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX: $16,022

[flotown]

SC's wealth and prosperity is centered in the upstate (especially G'ville/Spartanburg), Columbia, Charleston, and the coast. In most of the rest of the state, $8 an hour is considered "good money". Both amazing and disgusting at the same time.

With the influx of new residents from other states, I do see things improving, unfortunately, mainly in the areas mentioned above. The remainder of the state, especially the Pee Dee (with the exception of Florence proper), is rural, uneducated and lacks sufficent infrastructure. And having worked in backwoods Marion and Williamsburg counties, with payday loan shops on every corner, it's unlikely things will change any time soon.

Metro was correct in his entire analysis, especially the lack of large cities in SC. There's something about a major city that brings a sense of progressiveness to an area, and tends to trickle down to outlying areas. SC cities are nice, but they are not on the scale of Charlotte or Raleigh/Durham.

[The_sandlapper]

That's it. People, particularly the younger generation, want upward mobility and economic affluence which can be found more easily in other places; they aren't worried about proving a political point. I can't say that I blame the ones who believe like this, even if I don't fully agree.

[The_sandlapper]

I just thought I'd post these statistics here. They are the per capita incomes (according to 2005 statistics) for all Southern MSAs with residents of 500,000-1,000,000.

17. McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX: $16,022

[krazeeboi]

Metro was correct in his entire analysis, especially the lack of large cities in SC. There's something about a major city that brings a sense of progressiveness to an area, and tends to trickle down to outlying areas. SC cities are nice, but they are not on the scale of Charlotte or Raleigh/Durham.

[Captain Worley]

After living in middle GA for six years, I can say without a doubt that the SC midlands is a far nicer place to live.

As for the politicians, Mark Sanford is trying to change the way things are done, and the legislature is fighting it tooth and nail. He isn't the most subtle guy either, which doesn't help his cause too much.

[kayman]

This is very similar to my hometown, Birmingham, which thank God is doing pretty well now. For years, the number one industry was iron and steel, thanks to the natural resources in the area. Birmingham labor was cheap and the real dollars went out of state to US Steel headquarters. Once cheaper labor and cheaper production of steel was secured in other countries, the steel industry in B'ham dried up....much like SC (and NC's) textile industry. Birmingham floundered for a while, but has become a pretty great place to live thanks to a continued focus and DEMAND for quality of life by it's citizens. They have a drive and determination. I must say, were Birmingham's city government to ever get it's act together, the city would become a shining star. It's citizens are ready. SC citizens have to be ready for a higher quality of life.....they have to demand it of their government and they have to demand it from themselves.

[kayman]

It's a mixed bag of wanting to have your cake and eat it too! We want to be known as a great place to live and excepting of everyone, as long as you meet our certain criteria. The rest of the world isn't on SC time and so therefore doesn't have to conform to SC popular thought. Many times people of SC have said well if you don't like it leave it, well that's exactly just what has been done. NC & GA I'm sure are greatful for SC's arrogance, and inability to adapt.

[GvilleSC]

Also, use more of your ingenuity like ICAR in Greenville and Innovista in Columbia to spread the knowledge and wealth to their respective regions (all of the Upstate and all of the Midlands). Charleston should do it best to work with Myrtle Beach and create a tourist mecca corridor like New Jersey has down between Atlantic City and NYC. The effects starts in the cities but can trickle toward to influence its region then if all the regions does this the state's quality of life is much better. Also South Carolina has a lottery for education, now use it as it should for high education funding of scholarships. South Carolinans, you have all the keys for success, just wake up and use the damn things!

[Spartan]

And Tennessee and Mississippi and Georgia and Arkansas and Texas. I think most all the Southern states are very much alike in the haves (who live in the urban areas) vs. the have nots (who live in the rural area). I must say, both North Carolina and Virginia seem to be more the exception to this. Maybe because both this states have greater urbanity, but I seem these as having more well rounded lives for all. Just my observation from my travels.

[monsoon]

.... Charleston should do it best to work with Myrtle Beach and create a tourist mecca corridor like New Jersey has down between Atlantic City and NYC. .....

[The_sandlapper]

What people fail to realize is that if we make our cities a great place to be, people will want to invest there!

[The_sandlapper]

This will never happen. Charleston looks down on Myrtle Beach as being tacky, and Myrtle Beach looks at Charleston as being irrelevant and jealous of its success. I think this example points out another issue about this matter. The ones that have it in SC are not interesting in helping to fix the problems of the have nots and the various regions of SC compete against each other. They cooperate to make the state as a whole better.

[krazeeboi]

There is absolutely no difference between rural SC and the rest of the rural south, including Virginia, Tennessee, and the other so-called "new south" states in that article. You are right in that the perception is because of its larger cities (of which it has more). The fact is that success in the 21st century is tied directly to cities and what they have to offer. Virginia has DC, which has a very very high quality of life, and cost of living. But people are still clamoring to live there... Alexandria, Georgetown, etc. are all high demand places for a reason. The same can be said for Richmond or Norfolk, etc.