NHL

[MadVlad]

I had that one dead on. So this round, I'm really pulling for the Ducks in the worst way because of their Whalers ties, but for some reason I'm thinking the Sens in 6....

There

Edited May 24, 2007 by MadVlad

[dgreco]

I'm gonna go on a limb and say Ducks in 5.

[Thrillhouse]

So with the predators being sold, will they move after next season? It is rumored to be in Kitchener, Ontario which is forty miles north of Hamilton and sixty miles west of Toronto. I know that area can support a team, but what would the maple leafs and sabres think of a team moving nearby?

Winnipeg and Kansas City are two other spots that a team could move to.

[dgreco]

So with the predators being sold, will they move after next season? It is rumored to be in Kitchener, Ontario which is forty miles north of Hamilton and sixty miles west of Toronto. I know that area can support a team, but what would the maple leafs and sabres think of a team moving nearby?

Winnipeg and Kansas City are two other spots that a team could move to.

it would be nice to see a team back in winnipeg, Kasnsas City has been trying, but I dont know if they can support a team. I guess they could because it would be there main sports franchise besides the royals.

[Lowerdeck]

If they move to Kansas City, which won't happen with this new owner, the same thing would happen there as did in Nashville.

[dgreco]

If they move to Kansas City, which won't happen with this new owner, the same thing would happen there as did in Nashville.

think they move to winnipeg? or try a new city out?

[MadVlad]

I'd prefer Winnipeg to Hamilton. Winnipeg has an arena (albeit smaller than average), and was a great city before losing the Jets....

[dgreco]

I'd prefer Winnipeg to Hamilton. Winnipeg has an arena (albeit smaller than average), and was a great city before losing the Jets....

I think either would be a fit, I think Canada could use another city. I honestly would rather see another "natural" hockey city instead of these southern cities, it just seems less exciting to me.

[MadVlad]

I think either would be a fit, I think Canada could use another city. I honestly would rather see another "natural" hockey city instead of these southern cities, it just seems less exciting to me.

Well, c'mon, it makes sense. Ice just doesn't occur on a regular basis in Raleigh, Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix.... Places like Hartford, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Quebec City, people actually play the game there in winter....

[Justadude]

I would have to seriously question the strategy of moving a team such a short time after it was founded. It's almost like the NBA's Grizzlies franchise, which still lacks a cohesive identity because it's never been in one place for a solid decade. I think the NHL can work out in Nashville in the long run, but it's going to need a bit more to work with than a bunch of B-list players and no serious playoff runs. Frankly, I doubt that team would draw large crowds even if it were located up north.

[dgreco]

Ducks take a come from behind win. Great 3rd period played by anaheim.

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[MadVlad]

I would have to seriously question the strategy of moving a team such a short time after it was founded. It's almost like the NBA's Grizzlies franchise, which still lacks a cohesive identity because it's never been in one place for a solid decade. I think the NHL can work out in Nashville in the long run, but it's going to need a bit more to work with than a bunch of B-list players and no serious playoff runs. Frankly, I doubt that team would draw large crowds even if it were located up north.

Um, the Preds have a ton of guys that are FAR superior to B-listers.... Forsberg, Kariya, Timonen, Vokoun, those are all A-list players. With that cast, the Preds should be getting plenty of sellouts....

[Justadude]

Um, the Preds have a ton of guys that are FAR superior to B-listers.... Forsberg, Kariya, Timonen, Vokoun, those are all A-list players. With that cast, the Preds should be getting plenty of sellouts....

Forsberg was brought in with the "rental" mentality, not exactly the way you want fans to connect to a superstar. Kariya is just a flashy 30-goal scorer these days, no more relevant to the league than Sergei Fedorov in recent years. Timonen and Vokoun are known to dedicated fans, but your average American sports fan probably wouldn't even be able to identify them as hockey players.

Even as a pretty big hockey fan I wouldn't spend upwards of $200 on tickets, food and parking to see Peter Forsberg drift through a game with a bunch of guys who were this close to being All-Star alternates. I certainly wouldn't do it for a team that has a couple of divisional second-place finishes and three first-round losses (not even a game 7 among them) as its glorious history. The team has to somehow justify a major-league audience, and the Preds have done that about as poorly as any franchise in the league right now (fortunately its expansion brethren have all done about as badly). The team record for goals in a season is THIRTY ONE, for goodness sake! That lack of on-ice output leaves the Preds in the dust as far as local media is concerned. Even in several of the league's much larger and better-established cities, this team would be struggling to keep up in terms of attendance and exposure.

[MadVlad]

Forsberg was brought in with the "rental" mentality, not exactly the way you want fans to connect to a superstar. Kariya is just a flashy 30-goal scorer these days, no more relevant to the league than Sergei Fedorov in recent years. Timonen and Vokoun are known to dedicated fans, but your average American sports fan probably wouldn't even be able to identify them as hockey players.

Even as a pretty big hockey fan I wouldn't spend upwards of $200 on tickets, food and parking to see Peter Forsberg drift through a game with a bunch of guys who were this close to being All-Star alternates. I certainly wouldn't do it for a team that has a couple of divisional second-place finishes and three first-round losses (not even a game 7 among them) as its glorious history. The team has to somehow justify a major-league audience, and the Preds have done that about as poorly as any franchise in the league right now (fortunately its expansion brethren have all done about as badly). The team record for goals in a season is THIRTY ONE, for goodness sake! That lack of on-ice output leaves the Preds in the dust as far as local media is concerned. Even in several of the league's much larger and better-established cities, this team would be struggling to keep up in terms of attendance and exposure.

If you want a team, you better be prepared to support a team that did great in the regular season and got to the playoffs, with or without stars. I've seen Kariya play in the recent past, I'd pay to see him every night, 30 goals or not. I wouldn't care if one of my players was a rental if he's Forsbergs caliber. Be thankful for what you have, it's a rare day when you get a team good enough to go very deep in the playoffs, some franchises never get that, ever.

[dgreco]

Ray Evernham expects to finalize the sale of an unspecified portion of his Nextel Cup Series operation to Montreal Canadiens owner George Gillett Jr. within 60 to 90 days, the team owner told ESPN.com on Tuesday. Good sign or bad sign for the HAbs?

[Justadude]

If you want a team, you better be prepared to support a team that did great in the regular season and got to the playoffs, with or without stars. I've seen Kariya play in the recent past, I'd pay to see him every night, 30 goals or not. I wouldn't care if one of my players was a rental if he's Forsbergs caliber. Be thankful for what you have, it's a rare day when you get a team good enough to go very deep in the playoffs, some franchises never get that, ever.

The NHL knew going into Nashville that it was going to have to cultivate a largely non-hockey-oriented fanbase. The bottom line is that the cultivation still has not really happened; if you were a non hockey fan in Nashville, what would drive you to a Predators game? Certainly not an abundance of superstar players or great playoff games. There is almost no "vibe" at all to that franchise, and I really can't blame the people of Nashville for refusing to pay through the nose to watch a traditionally boring team.

The last 2 seasons have been better, and attendance has risen by a couple thousand. It's what you would expect from pretty much any franchise outside an Original Six market. In fact, they've outdrawn the Devils the past couple of years... but nobody's talking about moving the team out of Jersey. Part of the problem here is that if the league cuts ties with the south, the bridges will be burned and that market is gone for the forseeable future. I really don't think it's in the league's long-term best interests to make that happen.

[dgreco]

Ducks are up 2-0, halfway to a stanley cup championship.

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Edited May 31, 2007 by dgreco

[MadVlad]

The NHL knew going into Nashville that it was going to have to cultivate a largely non-hockey-oriented fanbase. The bottom line is that the cultivation still has not really happened; if you were a non hockey fan in Nashville, what would drive you to a Predators game? Certainly not an abundance of superstar players or great playoff games. There is almost no "vibe" at all to that franchise, and I really can't blame the people of Nashville for refusing to pay through the nose to watch a traditionally boring team.

The last 2 seasons have been better, and attendance has risen by a couple thousand. It's what you would expect from pretty much any franchise outside an Original Six market. In fact, they've outdrawn the Devils the past couple of years... but nobody's talking about moving the team out of Jersey. Part of the problem here is that if the league cuts ties with the south, the bridges will be burned and that market is gone for the forseeable future. I really don't think it's in the league's long-term best interests to make that happen.

Let's face it, hockey is a Northern, winter, regional sport. While I applaud the NHL's zest in trying to expand itself into new areas, it would have been better off trying to establish a working, healthy league with what it had. No offense to the Nashvilles and the Carolinas, but those are difficult markets to break especially with little history of the sport. You make some great points but with flawed logic. It's difficult for newer teams coming into the league to be successful. Florida did it, but with a boring team, nobody went to those games either. They get Pavel Bure, possibly the flashiest star ever, and they start to lose and attendance doesn't increase. The league can't make exceptions for areas that aren't naturally hockey friendly. They've been lucky that the Stanley Cup has arrived in Tampa and Carolina, both of those franchises would be up the creek without those wins. If Nashville isn't fortunate enough to get far in the playoffs, and the team has to leave because of it, then so be it. Nashville needs to realize how difficult it is to actually be successful in the league, and support the team they have. Hartford supported the Whalers decently for a really, really bad team, and they still left.

[dgreco]

Let's face it, hockey is a Northern, winter, regional sport. While I applaud the NHL's zest in trying to expand itself into new areas, it would have been better off trying to establish a working, healthy league with what it had. No offense to the Nashvilles and the Carolinas, but those are difficult markets to break especially with little history of the sport. You make some great points but with flawed logic. It's difficult for newer teams coming into the league to be successful. Florida did it, but with a boring team, nobody went to those games either. They get Pavel Bure, possibly the flashiest star ever, and they start to lose and attendance doesn't increase. The league can't make exceptions for areas that aren't naturally hockey friendly. They've been lucky that the Stanley Cup has arrived in Tampa and Carolina, both of those franchises would be up the creek without those wins. If Nashville isn't fortunate enough to get far in the playoffs, and the team has to leave because of it, then so be it. Nashville needs to realize how difficult it is to actually be successful in the league, and support the team they have. Hartford supported the Whalers decently for a really, really bad team, and they still left.

i personally think that the NHL needs to retract teams and go to a smaller number with cities that will support the team and go from there. Work on reestablsihing the league as something cities want. We do not need a sport that is in to many cities people do not attend. I also think the amount of teams has drowned the talent pool quite a bit.

[Justadude]

Then you can kiss national coverage goodbye in the USA. When that happens, you're basically relegating the league to XFL status as far as the quantity and quality of your exposure. That means corporate support dries up, revenue bottoms out, teams are unable to pay player salaries, the union holds another strike, and most likely the whole league collapses within the next decade. In the best case, we might see another league pop up WHA-style to try and make things work where the NHL failed.

We all want the league to be healthy and successful, but that is going to mean growing pains at some point. You simply cannot pull the league out of half the nation without putting it into an unrecoverable doomsday scenario. The NHL chose decades ago to be a national sport, and it has pursued that goal to the breaking point. It can't just reverse course and go back to being a smaller regional sport.

[dgreco]

Then you can kiss national coverage goodbye in the USA. When that happens, you're basically relegating the league to XFL status as far as the quantity and quality of your exposure. That means corporate support dries up, revenue bottoms out, teams are unable to pay player salaries, the union holds another strike, and most likely the whole league collapses within the next decade. In the best case, we might see another league pop up WHA-style to try and make things work where the NHL failed.

We all want the league to be healthy and successful, but that is going to mean growing pains at some point. You simply cannot pull the league out of half the nation without putting it into an unrecoverable doomsday scenario. The NHL chose decades ago to be a national sport, and it has pursued that goal to the breaking point. It can't just reverse course and go back to being a smaller regional sport.

I think less teams allows only good players to play and then allows for a better league and eventually higher salaries. I really wonder how many people from Carolina actually watch there team. An example, the Ducks had a 1.7 rating in all of California for there game last night. Pittsburg had a 2.0, so it shows that true hockey cities actually support the league. Also, they aren't making much when Veruses network reaches 72 million people and they had 500,000 viewers on average for the first game.

[MadVlad]

Then you can kiss national coverage goodbye in the USA. When that happens, you're basically relegating the league to XFL status as far as the quantity and quality of your exposure. That means corporate support dries up, revenue bottoms out, teams are unable to pay player salaries, the union holds another strike, and most likely the whole league collapses within the next decade. In the best case, we might see another league pop up WHA-style to try and make things work where the NHL failed.

We all want the league to be healthy and successful, but that is going to mean growing pains at some point. You simply cannot pull the league out of half the nation without putting it into an unrecoverable doomsday scenario. The NHL chose decades ago to be a national sport, and it has pursued that goal to the breaking point. It can't just reverse course and go back to being a smaller regional sport.

I'm not an advocate for pulling the league out of half the nation, large cities like Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix are fine. But you have to understand that hockey isn't like the other sports. And, as far as national coverage, the Stanley Cup finals are on the Versus network, that's as close to the XFL as you can get without being the XFL. The difference is that the NHL has a history that the XFL did not. Corporate support has yet to dry up, except in the areas where the league isn't doing well.

[dgreco]

I'm not an advocate for pulling the league out of half the nation, large cities like Dallas, Atlanta, and Phoenix are fine. But you have to understand that hockey isn't like the other sports. And, as far as national coverage, the Stanley Cup finals are on the Versus network, that's as close to the XFL as you can get without being the XFL. The difference is that the NHL has a history that the XFL did not. Corporate support has yet to dry up, except in the areas where the league isn't doing well.

and as hard as it is to say as a boston fan, the bruins can't sell out that arena if they were giving away the tickets. The league needs better competition and I think some sort of retraction owuld help that. I don't mean back down to 8 teams, but before they went expansion crazy and maybe 22 teams or 24 teams or maybe a little less. I am not sure, but I think they need to do something.

[Justadude]

I just don't understand the argument that the talent pool has gotten worse over the past 20 years. The athletes today are FAR beyond the caliber of most 1980s teams (dynasties aside, obviously). There are virtually no "goons" left in the league anymore, and it only takes the enforcement of interference rules to get rid of the hook-and-ride defensemen. The skill in the league is probably 200% greater than it was in the Original Six era, because there are tens of millions more kids playing the sport than there were back then.

And frankly I don't see how keeping cities like Pittsburgh on life support is any healthier than keeping Nashville alive. This double standard stuff is really frustrating to fans outside the northeast and Canada; I'm a Bruins fan living in North Carolina and I see more people at Hurricanes games than at Bruins games in the last 5 years. I know they're not a smashing success, but the southern teams have the advantage of being in growing cities. I find it very, very short-sighted to just evacuate any city that doesn't show immediate commitment to a league which has been overtly mismanaged.

The health issues with the NHL start in Gary Bettman's office. Get the league itself straightened out, and then take a fair look at whether franchises are truly destined for failure. Otherwise it's nothing but scapegoating.

[dgreco]

Ducks are up 2-1, Senators finally played well.

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