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Norfolk Civic/Government issues


vdogg

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Now that's a bit of a loaded question. Of course, I want both. I want the City to conduct business in a fair and efficient way. I also want the City to prosper and become a better place to live, work, retire, and so on. But that means I don't want a group of feudal overlords fighting over scraps for their little fiefdoms; that's just not smart or effective governance. I don't think bringing up racism at every odd turn is polite, correct or useful either. Acceptance of racism has declined for many years now. We don't tolerate it in schools, business, churches or in government. It is generally unlawful. Yes, it's alive and sick in some aspects of our lives but we are working against it very seriously. If I were on a city council, I'd rather have someone jump up on a table and moon me all the time than continually call me a racist. It's just too much.

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Well I don't see his points being valid when this guy does things wrong and then blame it on racism. Like all the back taxes he owed to the city for his funeral service. He screamed racism when they told him to clean trash up in his yard. What kind of city council member is he? He can't follow city regualtions and laws and screams racism to smoke screen his wrong doings. No one is saying that racism is dead but he is using it to cover things up.

Valid point! When it comes to matters of violating city codes and laws he cannot scream racism.

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Help me understand, is Paul Riddick falsely stirring the racial pot in Norfolk or is he simply expressing the views of many in his ward. I agree that sometimes Riddick's statements are over the top, but the core question is are they true? It seems that Norfolk constantly wants to cover-up the institutional racism that lies just below the surface. Maybe what everyone is concerned about is Riddick expressing an inconvenient truth at a time when Norfolk is seeing unprecendented revitalization. I really did not want to wade into this discussion, but now that I have I cannot help but think that some of what Riddick has been saying is actually good for the city of Norfolk.

I would caution Mr. Riddick though not to make accusations without evidence similar to the charges he leveled against that nightclub on Granby St.

I have a question for the citizens of Norfolk on this forum, do you want a city council made up of members that sort of go along with the good old boy, business community and never raise embarrassing questions or do you want a city council made up of independent minded members representing the interest of thier wards and the city as a whole?

Here is my problem with Riddick (other than being a complete circus act). He spouts off at the mouth about "certain segments of the community" being mistreated. He goes on and on about this but does he ever back up any of his accusations with evidence or any documentation?

- Who are all these people calling him about mistreatment?

- How many phone calls has he received?

- When? What day? When did the incident occur? Who were the parties involved?

- What neighboorhoods have the most complaints?

- Can you bring the citizens forward to document their incident?

None of these simple questions can be answered. I've never seen him provide any basic information that would help city council and others investigate his claims. His so called "friends" who were turned away at a night club screaming racism wouldn't even come forward. If the injustice is so prevalent, what's stopping them from coming forward? Or is this just another way for people to complain about issues b/c they have nothing better to do than blame their own misfortunes on others? Sure, police offers patrol his neighborhoods on a more regular basis but its not because of race, its because more crime occurs in those neighborhoods. It doesn't get any more simple than that! It doesn't matter if the neighborhood is all black, asian, or white. The cops will focus their efforts in places which have the highest crime rates!

I want a city council who is fair minded, professional at ALL TIMES and pro-business. They should represent their wards and the entire city equally. But Riddick does not look out for the greater good of the city, he is only out to serve his own agenda! Raise the embarrassing questions! I don't care...but do so in a manner which is constructive and professional.

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Help me understand, is Paul Riddick falsely stirring the racial pot in Norfolk or is he simply expressing the views of many in his ward. I agree that sometimes Riddick's statements are over the top, but the core question is are they true? It seems that Norfolk constantly wants to cover-up the institutional racism that lies just below the surface. Maybe what everyone is concerned about is Riddick expressing an inconvenient truth at a time when Norfolk is seeing unprecendented revitalization. I really did not want to wade into this discussion, but now that I have I cannot help but think that some of what Riddick has been saying is actually good for the city of Norfolk.

I think this is a fair statement. I think people in Riddicks district actually have a real concern about what they perceive as racism. I think their concerns need to be brought to light and treated as fairly as your concerns or mine. Riddick is a loud mouthed baffoon, but that doesn't mean that the issues he put forth are invalid. Even with more capable leadership from ward 4 the issue would probably still be raised in some form because a large amount of the general public in that district feel that racism is a problem. It is an issue that should be faced head on, not swept under the rug. I'm glad Riddick was demoted, he is bad for the city, it's as simple as that. If the citizens of his ward do have issues that concern them however, we should give them every chance to voice them (and actually listen to what they have to say).

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I think this is a fair statement. I think people in Riddicks district actually have a real concern about what they perceive as racism. I think their concerns need to be brought to light and treated as fairly as your concerns or mine. Riddick is a loud mouthed baffoon, but that doesn't mean that the issues he put forth are invalid. Even with more capable leadership from ward 4 the issue would probably still be raised in some form because a large amount of the general public in that district feel that racism is a problem. It is an issue that should be faced head on, not swept under the rug. I'm glad Riddick was demoted, he is bad for the city, it's as simple as that. If the citizens of his ward do have issues that concern them however, we should give them every chance to voice them (and actually listen to what they have to say).

I agree that with or without Riddick these issues probably would be raised again. Riddick has become the issue versus what he is saying. For that reason I think the council was right to remove him as vice mayor. Riddick is viewed as a baffoon in some sections of the city, but he is probably viewed by some in ward 4 as a persistent and blunt critic of the conduct of the Norfolk police. In some cases when you see black motorist and black policemen killed by white policemen and the investigations into these incidences covered up or muted, sometimes the loud and harsh approach is warranted. Norfolk has a history of covering up institutional racism in order to seem progressive. I remember my father telling a story about Norfolk being designated an "All American City" in 1960 while the cities' schools were closed because of desegregation. The city did everything in its power to cover this up in front of the national news media at the time. It did not work, because of demonstrators who protested in front of the Center Theatre (Now Harrison Opera House). This event actually pushed Norfolk along with Arlington County to petition the state of Virginia to reopen the schools and accept the federal desegregation order. Some of this looking the other way appears to continue today in Norfolk. I think the experience of 47 years ago shows that when Norfolk faces racism head on it makes the city look better than sweeping it under the rug.

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Riddick Ousted

This is the first time I've heard anything from her regarding her removal. I cannot recall one Riddick like incident involving her during her tenure. If she feels this way, it really makes one wonder. She is not a race baiter by any stretch of the imagination but i'm starting to get concerned about what goes on behind closed doors at this council. As for Riddick being removed, only proper action to take. He has always been a divisive figure and should have never been put in the Vice Mayors post. I think Norfolk would benefit from some fresh blood though. It would be nice to see some new people come to the political scene, perhaps then we can start moving past this mess.

I also found Daun Hesters statements very revealing about the nature of her removal....It has been publisized that Hester believed that the current City Council system dilutes the voting power of the black community...3 black council members for a city that is 50% black?, But she raised her concerns behind closed doors without grandstanding ,but she was publically embarrassed when was removed as vice mayor. City Council under Fraims direction then installed Riddick as the VP therefore Fraim should share the blame for this controversy. I hope Daun Heaster recovers politically in time to make the next Mayoral race in Norfolk more interesting.

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I also found Daun Hesters statements very revealing about the nature of her removal....It has been publisized that Hester believed that the current City Council system dilutes the voting power of the black community...3 black council members for a city that is 50% black?, But she raised her concerns behind closed doors without grandstanding ,but she was publically embarrassed when was removed as vice mayor. City Council under Fraims direction then installed Riddick as the VP therefore Fraim should share the blame for this controversy. I hope Daun Heaster recovers politically in time to make the next Mayoral race in Norfolk more interesting.

Hester is just saying what everybody knew, once she got out of her "place," Fraim and boys got rid of her and gave Riddick a fancy worthless title and a few pennies, and he quickly stabbed her in the back. They couldn't control Riddick from upsetting the Black people of Norfolk and seeing the light, so they got rid of him too. Now Burfoot is the latest puppet.

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What makes you guys think that the white council memebers are doing racist things. What proof do you have? Alot of people whinning about being harassed by cops are doing things they aren't suppose to and using the race card to cover it up. The race card has been overly abused and used to smoke screen the problems that people are causing. Just like the illegal immigration problem. They are trying to pull the race card out on that. Securing our boarders and keeping hospitals from going bankrupt is not racism! Its to secure our welfare system and businesses. There is racism out there is on both sides and is very overlooked on the black side. I've experienced black racism against me. I'm not saying the council doesn't have racist in there but where is the proof? There needs to be compromise in everthing so it balances out. Its really hard to be fair to all groups. We have so many races here in this nation and I imagine its hard to appease all of them, also throw in religion and it opens a HUGE can of worms on top of race. I've been harassed by black police officers but where is the media then?

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I also found Daun Hesters statements very revealing about the nature of her removal....It has been publisized that Hester believed that the current City Council system dilutes the voting power of the black community...3 black council members for a city that is 50% black?, But she raised her concerns behind closed doors without grandstanding ,but she was publically embarrassed when was removed as vice mayor. City Council under Fraims direction then installed Riddick as the VP therefore Fraim should share the blame for this controversy. I hope Daun Heaster recovers politically in time to make the next Mayoral race in Norfolk more interesting.

There isn't a single black person on VA Beach city council. Are you telling me they are all racist too because the black community doesn't have a single vote in VA Beach. This is absolute nonsense. It's no mystery that Norfolk has long been run by a select few. But to say there is institutional racism...where? Someone tell me where there is institutional racism! If you believe white officers intentially shot a black officer (one of their own) you gotta be kidding me! If this institutional racism was taking place, even within our police force, do you think we'd have any black officers? Lets get real here..."the man" isn't out to get anyone and isn't holding anyone down.

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What makes you guys think that the white council memebers are doing racist things. What proof do you have? Alot of people whinning about being harassed by cops are doing things they aren't suppose to and using the race card to cover it up. The race card has been overly abused and used to smoke screen the problems that people are causing. Just like the illegal immigration problem. They are trying to pull the race card out on that. Securing our boarders and keeping hospitals from going bankrupt is not racism! Its to secure our welfare system and businesses. There is racism out there is on both sides and is very overlooked on the black side. I've experienced black racism against me. I'm not saying the council doesn't have racist in there but where is the proof? There needs to be compromise in everthing so it balances out. Its really hard to be fair to all groups. We have so many races here in this nation and I imagine its hard to appease all of them, also throw in religion and it opens a HUGE can of worms on top of race. I've been harassed by black police officers but where is the media then?

The issue that we were addressing, the one which concerned me, was the circumstances surrounding Daun Hesters depature. She was not one to publicly use the race card and incite tension, she was not whining about being harassed by the cops, she did however have a reasonable expectation that the residents of Norfolk be represented fairly. An issue that she brought up behind closed doors which may have still led to her depature as Vice Mayor. There is no proof of this, but in the spirit of open government an explanation should have been given as to why they took away the Vice mayor slot from her. Padman gave a different explanation, was that the one? Nobody knows but everyone deserve to know. My opinion and Cases opinion boil down to a lot more that "white council members doing racist things". Try reading the whole post instead of breaking it down to the most simplistic, knee jerk translation.

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There isn't a single black person on VA Beach city council. Are you telling me they are all racist too because the black community doesn't have a single vote in VA Beach. This is absolute nonsense. It's no mystery that Norfolk has long been run by a select few. But to say there is institutional racism...where? Someone tell me where there is institutional racism! If you believe white officers intentially shot a black officer (one of their own) you gotta be kidding me! If this institutional racism was taking place, even within our police force, do you think we'd have any black officers? Lets get real here..."the man" isn't out to get anyone and isn't holding anyone down.

I don't recall seeing Case call anyone on council racist in his post. He did however point to a conflict/disagreement that may have been going on behind the scenes which may have ultimately led to Daun leaving the Vice mayors post. This is a complicated subject, and it is very uncomfortable (and probably not the best topic for this forum honestly). Simply because someone raises an issue, they shouldn't be automatically dismissed out of hand. Everyone has opinions, and no opinion is more valid than another. All that said, maybe we should steer clear of this topic. I see where its all going and it's obviously nowhere good....

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No one knows for sure the circumstances surrounding Daun Hesters departure. But to just think that Norfolk council would remove someone from their post because of race (and speaking up for the minority citizens), this goes against any logic. Same for Riddick. Removing someone under these cirumstances only bolsters their argument and ability to raise further questions. There is a lot more that goes on behind closed doors than we know. I wouldn't always take things for face value.

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The issue that we were addressing, the one which concerned me, was the circumstances surrounding Daun Hesters depature. She was not one to publicly use the race card and incite tension, she was not whining about being harassed by the cops, she did however have a reasonable expectation that the residents of Norfolk be represented fairly. An issue that she brought up behind closed doors which may have still led to her depature as Vice Mayor. There is no proof of this, but in the spirit of open government an explanation should have been given as to why they took away the Vice mayor slot from her. Padman gave a different explanation, was that the one? Nobody knows but everyone deserve to know. My opinion and Cases opinion boil down to a lot more that "white council members doing racist things". Try reading the whole post instead of breaking it down to the most simplistic, knee jerk translation.

I never quoted you. I was discussing it in a general way. I have no problem with Daun Hester but Riddick I do! We will probably never know the true reason behind her departure from vice mayor. She could have been released for other reasons than race! Could just be a political move.

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No one knows for sure the circumstances surrounding Daun Hesters departure. But to just think that Norfolk council would remove someone from their post because of race (and speaking up for the minority citizens), this goes against any logic. Same for Riddick. Removing someone under these cirumstances only bolsters their argument and ability to raise further questions. There is a lot more that goes on behind closed doors than we know. I wouldn't always take things for face value.

I agree that the city probably does not remove people from these ceremonial post simply because of race or speaking up for ones race. I do think though that if the person is controversial and outspoken about race even behind closed door there is an atmosphere of disapproval and a desire to shut them up. Norfolk leaders are obsessed about how the city is viewed outside of its borders to the point that desent on the council must never see the light ot day. Look at how they fought against televising council meetings. This fiies into the face of Norfolk's finely crafted image as a genteel southern city governed through consensus with no racial animus. Well Riddick has brought to light something very different than this finely crafted image. A better way and I am certain that Mayor Fraim has already started this is better communication and police interaction with the residents of ward 4 and take their grievances more seriously.

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I agree that the city probably does not remove people from these ceremonial post simply because of race or speaking up for ones race. I do think though that if the person is controversial and outspoken about race even behind closed door there is an atmosphere of disapproval and a desire to shut them up. Norfolk leaders are obsessed about how the city is viewed outside of its borders to the point that desent on the council must never see the light ot day. Look at how they fought against televising council meetings. This fiies into the face of Norfolk's finely crafted image as a genteel southern city governed through consensus with no racial animus. Well Riddick has brought to light something very different than this finely crafted image. A better way and I am certain that Mayor Fraim has already started this is better communication and police interaction with the residents of ward 4 and take their grievances more seriously.

I don't think there are too many people who deny that there are still racial issues in Norfolk or Virginia or the US. However, I think many are getting tired of the same old-same old Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton style of Paul Riddick. I am sure he is a decent man and I am sure he has a good heart, but his style does nothing to help achieve what he states he wishes to receive. It is in Norfolk's best interest for all citizens to be as successful as possible, and there are plenty of examples of successful black citizens in Norfolk. Certainly all grievances should be taken seriously, just as the words of Bill Cosby and Juan Williams should be taken seriously. I recently was present for a talk by the new Special Agent in Charge for the Norfolk FBI office, and in her very poised Black American way shocked her 95% white audience by saying that the worst problem facing the US was not terrorism, but the attack on our culture which has children growing up without proper parenting and has children unduly influenced by gangs and video games and music that is poisoning their youth and their future. It's time for a lot of people to wake up to what is going on in our city and state and country and come together on deciding what the real problems are and how to address them.

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There isn't a single black person on VA Beach city council. Are you telling me they are all racist too because the black community doesn't have a single vote in VA Beach. This is absolute nonsense. It's no mystery that Norfolk has long been run by a select few. But to say there is institutional racism...where? Someone tell me where there is institutional racism! If you believe white officers intentially shot a black officer (one of their own) you gotta be kidding me! If this institutional racism was taking place, even within our police force, do you think we'd have any black officers? Lets get real here..."the man" isn't out to get anyone and isn't holding anyone down.

vtfan18, You definitly read way more into what I was saying than what I intended. I primarily wanted to bring attention to the fact that this VP controversity could have been avoided. I think (maybe without proof) that back door political maneuvering (not "institutional racism") put us in this position. Riddick has said quite a few this controversial statements over the years but they were made as a "councilman" not as "vice mayor." Fraim should take some heat for that.... But I do think it would be in VBs interest to address that disparity before it becomes an issue.

If you all think race is hot button issue in HR...trust me HR is harmonious compaired to my home town.. ATL...visit their forum.. you would think riots is about to break out based on some of the comments... Norfolk and HR has a lot going for it...

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There isn't a single black person on VA Beach city council. Are you telling me they are all racist too because the black community doesn't have a single vote in VA Beach. This is absolute nonsense.

VA Beach has the largest number of blacks in HR after Norfolk and NOT ONE sits on their city council. Why? Because unlike Norfolk's current system, they use an antiquated system that lets everyone vote for council members regardless of which area that member represents. So in areas that have large black populations, there is little chance that they will see black members on council. So the council basically reflects what the majority (who vote) wants and disregards neighborhood issues. Villaneuva got smart and told his voters to just vote for him and no one else, which is why VB has one Filipino member on council. Rather than split the vote, there was a huge turn out for just him.

Norfolk is a little better, but not much. Throwing Hester under the bus for Riddick (who is basically slime) made me lose all respect for Fraim. Ms. Hester is a well respected member of council who has served Norfolk well. Rather than taking things seriously and redrawing the ward lines, Fraim did a quick power grab and enjoys being the "first elected mayor in Norfolk since...." Who cares that the ward system is outdated and needs to be redrawn to better reflect demographics? Not Paul Fraim, that's for sure.

Basically, I see the Norfolk council's actions as stupidly racist. They have this ceremonial position of vice mayor and elect someone based on race to fill the slot and make themselves look good. When that person does not jump to the council's whim, they are thrown out and replaced by another black person. Repeat this sequence again and now we are down to the last black person on council. So if Burfoot makes the mistake of challenging the white side, oops I mean west side, who will they try to fill the slot then? I hope Hester runs in the next election because she will definately get my vote.

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Our society judges people on race all the time. I find it interesting that the last three vice mayors have been black, almost as a bone to black voters to make the council seem progressive and race blind. I agree Burfoot had better tow the line or he will be out and discredited. I too would love to see Duan Hester a sorority sister to my younger sister run for mayor.

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Nice to see your not judging people on race like society :rolleyes: I wish Duan Hester well, but I doubt she can win in that racist city. I would like to hear some solutions to this race problem Norfolk seems to have. It does no good to just complain about it, you have to actively get involved. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but I believe you get out of life what you put into it. No one can hold me back from achieving my goals no matter what they have against me.

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Nice to see your not judging people on race like society :rolleyes: I wish Duan Hester well, but I doubt she can win in that racist city. I would like to hear some solutions to this race problem Norfolk seems to have. It does no good to just complain about it, you have to actively get involved. Maybe I'm too much of an idealist, but I believe you get out of life what you put into it. No one can hold me back from achieving my goals no matter what they have against me.

Absolutely in America you can achieve goals, but race is an extra hurdle that african americans have to overcome in order to reach that goal. One of the solutions to the underlying race problem Norfolk has is for the mayor and city council to address it head on through community meetings, looking into some of the allegations citizens have brought to the light of day. To be fair I give Norfolk pretty high marks in general when it comes to race relations. For instance the city and the Hampton Roads area is one of the most fully racially integrated areas in the country. This speaks volumes about the citizens of Norfolk and their ability to get along with each other. There remains thought a holdover from Norfolk and for that matter Virginia's segregationist past a distrust of the police which Riddick has brought to the forefront. LIke I said, you can get rid of Riddick from his ceremonial post, but that does nothing to correct the problem of injustice that so many people feel in ward 4.

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I wish Duan Hester well, but I doubt she can win in that racist city.

To say Norfolk is a "racist city" is like saying "Texas is a racist place". It's not that simple. Race relations in Hampton Roads are actually quite good compared to many other parts of the country and especially the south in general. I have never thought that the entire city/city government of Norfolk was racist either way... Having lived on the West Coast, I find it very amazing how people who are "not racist" react to Spanish speaking neighbors by moving en masse from CA to WA, OR, AZ and CO. Racism there towards people who are not native English speakers often surpasses what I have seen here.

Ms. Hester would probably garner a lot of support from people of all races, especially if she concentrates in the working class neighborhoods that feel (rightly or wronlgy) that they have been neglected by the city council and are now paying huge increases in property taxes. I had a very good experience with Ms. Hester when I wrote to her about an issue that was bothering me. I wrote to two city concil members (as we in Norfolk are all covered by two) and got an e-mail and follow up letter from her.

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Outside of Austin, Texas gets very redneck. The thing I like here is the mix of cultures are very fluid and I have yet to hear a racist remark from anyone. Racism is not only taught, but is a part of the human condition that all people have. You have to think logically when it comes to issues of race and not just blurt out emotionally driven rants, that is Riddicks biggest problem. The discussion needs to take place where both parties are allowed to give their points without the risk of being called a racist. I have had to face many homophobes in my life, but have never let it get to me. You will never be able to change how people feel, but in my 33 years of life I have seen progress in peoples attitudes. I'm sure over my next 33 years things will change even more drastically, but I can't wait that long. I hope you two don't either.

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Outside of Austin, Texas gets very redneck. The thing I like here is the mix of cultures are very fluid and I have yet to hear a racist remark from anyone.

Well, that is pretty much the case anywhere you go -- that when you leave urban areas, you find people that are less cosmopolitan. Leave Chicago and go to downstate Illinois. I love James Carville's line -- Pennsylvania. Philadelphia on one end, Pittsburgh on the other, Alabama in the middle. Look at the smug way NoVa'ers look down their nose at SW Va.

One thing unique about Texas, and I think it starts in school, is an appreciation for all of the cultures that make up Texas. Hispanic culture is wound throughout the fibre of South Texas -- from food to music to dress. It goes in both directions -- Anglos eating tamales for Christmas and speaking fluent Spanish, and Hispanics listening to country music and wearing boots. Same throughout the rest of the state -- a respect for the differences. Not ignoring them - rejoicing in them. Texas kids are taught early on about the shared sacrifices and contributions of every group -- Blacks, Anglos, Hispanics, Germans, Czechs (if it weren't for the Czech and German butchers, Texas wouldn't have BBQ!), Poles, Irish (San Patricio county was settled by Irish recruited because they were Catholic), etc. Juneteenth is celebrated by everyone, not just Blacks.

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We will probably never know the true reason behind her departure from vice mayor. She could have been released for other reasons than race! Could just be a political move.

I was told it had something to do with her opposition to the city-wide election of the mayor.

Interesting background in this:

Unfinished business from Riddick affair

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