Shaw/St. Aug Football Stadium in Raleigh

[citiboi27610]

Proposed Raleigh Stadium Could Get Sacked

Consultant reports plan for stadium for Shaw, St. Augustine's

Since Carter Finely Stadium, the RBC Center, and SAS Soccer Park are all located away for downtown, it may have seemed a lost cause to hope for a major downtown sports venue. Well with plans in the air for a football stadium where St. Augustine's College and Shaw University can play home football games, my hope (at least) is renewed. My problem is, the officials in charge are looking at Rock Quarry and I-440 which will still be away the city center. If built in Southeast Raleigh, it will do wonders for the economy in that part of town, but it could be better (possibly) closer to Downtown. What are your thoughts?

And another question, how much is 50 acres? A could unit of comparison might be a city block.

Thanks.

[dombalis]

I think that a perfect site for the stadium would be in the southern Person St. area, near Shaw. St. Aug's is, literally, a five minute drive away, so it would be convenient enough to both campuses to be of significant use to both schools. However, when you talk about 12-15000 people, you're talking about maybe 4,000-5,000 cars that need to be moved to and from the stadium on gameday. This is why 440 and Rock Quarry Rd. is a good alternative, IF traffic downtown would be a problem. I'm not a traffic engineer, but that seems to be a lot of cars for those roads downtown to handle at one time. I may be wrong, though. If it's downtown, great; I would prefer it to be downtown, but it would need to be south of South Street. I think that this project belongs in Southeast Raleigh (near downtown), because of its proximity to both schools, and the economic benefit that it would bring to a largely-ignored section of Raleigh. Raleigh needs to embrace all of its colleges and universities, especially two universities as fine as Shaw and St. Aug's. I hope this gets done...

[orulz]

BTW I think a downtown block is about 4.25 acres. So that's about 11.25 blocks of development they're looking at. I think (call it a hunch) that they're not talking about dense, downtown-style development around the stadium, though. More like, at best, a small lifestyle center.

[plus2]

I think the stadium is a wonderful opportunity for the SE Raleigh community. Not only for college games, but for community gatherings, concerts, etc. The stadium would work best near downtown in a historically black neighborhood. I would find a location in the existing street grid, and then perhaps redevelop areas around the stadium. Something like right here... the block behind the DMV on Tarboro St. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=h&om=1

High school games would also help bring life to the area. Raleigh doesn't have a "Memorial Stadium" like many cities where there are local high school "games of the week." In the fall you could potentially have activity Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday with football.

[urbanaturalist]

As a graduate of Shaw, I'm very happy about that proposal . Our sister school and rival, St. Augustine and us could definitley use a a nice venue, and its great for preventing duplication. Every one before has pretty much said what I'm thinkg. A mutual stadium offers opportunity not just for the colleges, but Southeast Raleigh and surrounding towns for concerts, other sporting events, and even sunny graduation ceremonies. Downtown Raleigh, would be a great place to have it, but unless they plan on building a underground parking deck for 5,000 cars below the stadium I don't see it as feasible. But hopefully, some mixed use dense development can arise from this. As well it offers and opportunity to foster some environmental/energy initiatives designers and schools will see the benefit of it.

My only question is who would own and manage the stadium???

[DanRNC]

The only way to get this built is to get a large source of private donations. I think it would be good to a municipal smaller-type stadium in the area but just don't see a very conservative Raleigh/Wake commission signing on.

[dombalis]

I think the stadium is a wonderful opportunity for the SE Raleigh community. Not only for college games, but for community gatherings, concerts, etc. The stadium would work best near downtown in a historically black neighborhood. I would find a location in the existing street grid, and then perhaps redevelop areas around the stadium. Something like right here... the block behind the DMV on Tarboro St. http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...mp;t=h&om=1

High school games would also help bring life to the area. Raleigh doesn't have a "Memorial Stadium" like many cities where there are local high school "games of the week." In the fall you could potentially have activity Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday with football.

[ncwebguy]

The lot south of DMV at Hargett and Tarboro has been partially developed since the Google Maps picture. Martin Street Baptist Church has added a "family life center" similar to the one on Wilmington Street by First Baptist. DMV has a largeish parking lot, but 4,000 cars would overwhelm it and the rest of the neighborhood.

A location in Southeast Raleigh with a lot of land that has gone untouched for years is the area north of the 440/Hammond road interchange. It has easy access to downtown Raleigh, 440, US 70, and a rail line runs through the area (the Railhawks could move here and keep their name!). It is about one mile south of Shaw, and as close/closer to St. Augs as Carter Finley is to NC State's central campus. There is *never* any traffic on this stretch of road. St. Augs and Shaw already have practice facilities -- St. Augs is on campus and Shaw uses nearby Chavis Park.

It should be built as a multi-use facility that could even be the home stadium for an MLS team if SAS soccer park is not expandable. It would encourage the redevlopment of warehouses in the area north of here and south of Bragg. To the west of Hammond is the city's bus depot/repair facility and a tow lot. To the east is some wetlands and warehouses. If the wetlands are ecologically sensitive, then it could be in the area roughly bounded by Hammond/Person, Hoke, and Garner Road. Garner Road was improved and widened a year or so ago, but has attracted little, if any, development since there is no good I-40 access. Hammond Road's height would be an advatage -- it would provide easy entrance to parking decks that could empty to a widened Hoke Street.

The problem is the Cargill processing plant at Blount and Hoke. Sometimes it is fine, but sometimes it smells awful.

It could be owned by a city/county/Shaw/St. Augs partnership similar to the Centennial Authority that owns/operates the RBC Center. If the project costs $35 million and the four principal partners contributed $7.5 million each, naming rights could be sold to cover the remaining $5 million. Or the land owner/developer could be a partner, since it will improve the value of the adjacent land.

SAS Soccer Park received $14.5 million from the hotel/meals tax. I know funds there are tight now due to the new CC, but revenue from those taxes should be increasing dramatically in less than two years from now.

[wjarrettc]

It should be built as a multi-use facility that could even be the home stadium for an MLS team if SAS soccer park is not expandable.

[Jones_]

SAS Soccer Park is expandable. I've seen it seat 10,000 with temporary seating of the NCAA Women's College Cup in 2002. It seems like it would be easy enough to add an upper deck on both sides and add permanent seating on the North bank, given the way the stadium is built.

I agree that any new stadium should consider multiple uses but SAS Soccer Park is plenty busy with the RailHawks, the Raleigh PDL team, high school championships, and various college games and tournaments.

I think if MLS ever came here, it would be to an expanded SAS Soccer Park and not to a new stadium (SAS currently lacks one major asset for MLS besides seats...luxury boxes...there's only 2, and one is owned by SAS while they retain the naming rights).

[wjarrettc]

The topo on the west side would make it very expensive to add seats there not to mention the placing of the press box would come into question. Plus the west side would lose a field which is used for rec teams and is of high enough quality that the US national team practiced on it before the last two World Cups so that investment would be lost as well. With all that said the current SAS site is still teh likely candidate either with these expensive mods to the existing stadium or a new stadium elsewhere on the unused land at teh site. The max buildout calls for more fields, although parking starts to become a question at some point not to mention access along Chatham would need to be a four lane road or the Western Blvd extension would need to be built and tied into the back of the facility if we were hoping for soldout crowds to be able to get in and out.

[pack-man]

this continues to stall in the city. the location that was decided was Rock Quarry/440. This location poses many issues. Due to the surrounding wetlands, the stadium would only have one entrance/exit onto Rock Quarry Road. this is causing a headache for those that are involved. I believe attempts are being made for alternative access to the stadium, but i haven't heard anything.

[DanRNC]

This project may be included in a bond referendum along with the Neuse River Greenway and a senior center.

[dombalis]

This project may be included in a bond referendum along with the Neuse River Greenway and a senior center.

[ncwebguy]

The Watson Flea Market site was looked at because the community really doesn't like the flea market. Its unpaved parking lot raises dust every time a car drives through. The single entrance causes traffic problems, as backups spill onto Rock Quarry. There isn't enough parking, so people park in no parking zones along the 440 ramp or across Rock Quarry. Items for sale are cheap and may have been procured by illegal means. But no one *cares* since it saves them money. It is a closer alternative than the state fair flea market or Raleigh Flea Market mall on Capital Blvd to southeast Raleigh residents.

Things won't be better for a football stadium. Traffic will be concentrated before and after games. The wetlands, women's prison, DOT offices across Rock Quarry and 440 restrict growth in the area. I don't know how much parking would be available on the land left over by the stadium. Or how much paved surface area will be allowed near the wetlands. Something could be worked out with the DOT to use their lot across the street, since it sits empty on the weekends.

Developers don't want to just build the stadium, but that is what is needed. I guess that is where the bond money comes in. I don't know how much economic development this will have on the area. The Walnut Creek softball complex and amplitheater have brough revenue to the city of Raleigh. But the immediate area has been burdened with the traffic yet received none of the hotels, restaurants, shops, etc. Other than supermarket anchored centers at the Rock Quarry and Poole Road intersections with 440, there has been little commercial development in the area -- the MLK Kroger and the "shops" near the MLK memorial garden. The MLK Kroger and Crosslink Food Lion are a long walk from the Flea Market area.

There are plans to develop the NW corner of MLK and Rock Quarry. But the land owner's family wants to develop the land themselves and have been slow to draw up plans so far.

Ideally, they could get the flea market land and work with the women's prison to consolidate closer to 440 and open space closer to MLK and Rock Quarry. Or move the Women's prison near the Wake County Detention annex on Hammond Road, freeing up even more space. The women's prison would still be close to I-40 and be in a less populated area.

[dombalis]

The Watson Flea Market site was looked at because the community really doesn't like the flea market. Its unpaved parking lot raises dust every time a car drives through. The single entrance causes traffic problems, as backups spill onto Rock Quarry. There isn't enough parking, so people park in no parking zones along the 440 ramp or across Rock Quarry. Items for sale are cheap and may have been procured by illegal means. But no one *cares* since it saves them money. It is a closer alternative than the state fair flea market or Raleigh Flea Market mall on Capital Blvd to southeast Raleigh residents.

[ncwebguy]

Watson's flea market is where they want to put the stadium discussed in this thread. Here is an N&O story about the recent problems with the market.

Off topic, but I would *love* to see this market moved downtown, maybe in the parking lots bounded by Cabarrus, Blount, South, and Wilmington Streets, near the Lincoln Theater. This would connect it to southeast Raleigh and downtown. But that would take a lot of cooperation that will likely never come.

[dombalis]

Watson's flea market is where they want to put the stadium discussed in this thread. Here is an N&O story about the recent problems with the market.

Off topic, but I would *love* to see this market moved downtown, maybe in the parking lots bounded by Cabarrus, Blount, South, and Wilmington Streets, near the Lincoln Theater. This would connect it to southeast Raleigh and downtown. But that would take a lot of cooperation that will likely never come.

[ChiefJoJo]

The county commissioners axed funding the stadium tonight.

[urbanaturalist]

The county commissioners axed funding the stadium tonight.

[RALBOI]

The county commissioners axed funding the stadium tonight.

[DanRNC]

This may have been in retaliation for the CIAA moving out of Raleigh/Wake County.

[serapis]

This was obviously fueled, by the usual racial bigotry north carolina's politicians suffer from.

[DanRNC]

I don't know if its bigotry or just politics. Maybe a combination of both most likely but I think more politics. The Wake County Council would most likely not vote to fund a stadium for Meredith either for example.

[ChiefJoJo]

N&O article:

In a meeting Monday, the board's Republicans said they did not see any public benefits from the proposed stadium, calling it a "campaign promise" of Raleigh Mayor Charles Meeker.

"Let's cut our losses and quit while we're ahead," said Commissioner Paul Coble.

Meeker said that the county's reluctance did not mean the project was over, but it did raise serious questions about financing. About $13 million would have come from the city and county.

"It certainly is a significant blow," he said.

I'm not sure it's fair to call their vote racist based on one vote. I know Coble is an anti-tax zealout, so he'd vote down anything of the like. Gurley and Bryan are supposedly more moderate, but they've taken some questionable stances already this year (on schools). Let's hope they are much more progressive on funding transit and other public infrastructure.