Highway and Road Construction Updates

[Guest]

I noticed they have a lot of steel in place on the north side of WB 196.  So will there be three through lanes now?  I can't recall.

This closure is going to be a clusterf#$%, I think a lot of people will just take Michigan instead of the detour.  

I know it costs more, but I feel like if they're going to be reconstructing it, they should make it able to handle the traffic volumes for the next 50 years instead of what it should have been able to handle decades ago.

[GR8scott]

7 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:

I noticed they have a lot of steel in place on the north side of WB 196.  So will there be three through lanes now?  I can't recall.

This closure is going to be a clusterf#$%, I think a lot of people will just take Michigan instead of the detour.  

I know it costs more, but I feel like if they're going to be reconstructing it, they should make it able to handle the traffic volumes for the next 50 years instead of what it should have been able to handle decades ago.

Doubt it, then it would have to go from 5 lanes (n and s 131 merge lanes) down to 2 in a really short span, they need to widen bridge over lane and a probably a couple small one before Lake Michigan to get 3 through lanes that far

[tamias6]

This Mlive article features a diagram of the proposed on ramp from Division Ave. to WB I-196. 

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, tamias6 said:

This Mlive article features a diagram of the proposed on ramp from Division Ave. to WB I-196. 

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/34357-highway-and-road-construction-updates/?page=29&tab=comments#comment-1583331

 

[Raildude's dad]

There are no lanes being added WB 196 at the river. all the widening is for is to provide shoulders for the ramp lanes.  Still only 2 thru lanes over 131.

Closing I-96 east bound from Leonard is a new development.  MDOT bid the interchange work earlier this  year Estimate was $30 M, bids came in at $52. So they split it in  2. This is a change to hopefully lower the cost.

I read comments on here about MDOT should so this or do that. With additional gas tax funds enacted a year or so ago, get ready for more traffic disruptions. They cannot make improvements w/o closing lanes and or segments of roads.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Raildude's dad
Correct misspellings etc

[wingbert]

Here we go... expect major construction announcements soon for Michigan, Fulton, Leonard and M6.  Remember, they never just FUBAR one east/west corridor at a time.  When they set out to inconvenience commuters they go all in.  Once this is done, in a few years it will be the north/south commuter’s turn to feel the pain.

[GRDadof3]

3 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Here we go... expect major construction announcements soon for Michigan, Fulton, Leonard and M6.  Remember, they never just FUBAR one east/west corridor at a time.  When they set out to inconvenience commuters they go all in.  Once this is done, in a few years it will be the north/south commuter’s turn to feel the pain.

I think it's more Feng Shui that way.  That's my story anyway. 

[Raildude's dad]

2 hours ago, wingbert said:

Here we go... expect major construction announcements soon for Michigan, Fulton, Leonard and M6.  Remember, they never just FUBAR one east/west corridor at a time.  When they set out to inconvenience commuters they go all in.  Once this is done, in a few years it will be the north/south commuter’s turn to feel the pain.

All the road agencies have additional funds trying to catch up on 20 years of under investment in the roads.  So there will be a lot more road work than in years past. The I-196 project downtown was supposed to be done last summer. The endangered mussel relocate didn't go as planned so the project completion was pushed back to this year.

i will admit some could do a better job. I was downtown last summer, fortunately on a Sunday, when I followed a detour that took me into another detour, and into a 3rd detour.  I ended up at an intersection with barricades on all the other 3 legs.  So, I just went past the barricade in the direction I wanted to go.  At that point I could get the judge to throw out the ticket if I got one.

[GRDadof3]

30 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

All the road agencies have additional funds trying to catch up on 20 years of under investment in the roads.  So there will be a lot more road work than in years past. The I-196 project downtown was supposed to be done last summer. The endangered mussel relocate didn't go as planned so the project completion was pushed back to this year.

i will admit some could do a better job. I was downtown last summer, fortunately on a Sunday, when I followed a detour that took me into another detour, and into a 3rd detour.  I ended up at an intersection with barricades on all the other 3 legs.  So, I just went past the barricade in the direction I wanted to go.  At that point I could get the judge to throw out the ticket if I got one.

I wonder if 131 through the South end of downtown will ever get resurfaced. Every time I drive that I just can't believe it's been left like that for so long, since I moved here almost 25 years ago. 

[mgreven]

57 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I wonder if 131 through the South end of downtown will ever get resurfaced. Every time I drive that I just can't believe it's been left like that for so long, since I moved here almost 25 years ago. 

That's so funny since I was just thinking the same thing while driving it on Saturday.

[Allison Slater]

4 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

All the road agencies have additional funds trying to catch up on 20 years of under investment in the roads.  So there will be a lot more road work than in years past. The I-196 project downtown was supposed to be done last summer. The endangered mussel relocate didn't go as planned so the project completion was pushed back to this year.

i will admit some could do a better job. I was downtown last summer, fortunately on a Sunday, when I followed a detour that took me into another detour, and into a 3rd detour.  I ended up at an intersection with barricades on all the other 3 legs.  So, I just went past the barricade in the direction I wanted to go.  At that point I could get the judge to throw out the ticket if I got one.

So 196 bridge was supposed to be closed at the same time as the 96 bridge? Yikes

[Raildude's dad]

1 hour ago, tSlater said:

So 196 bridge was supposed to be closed at the same time as the 96 bridge? Yikes

No.  They were switched around to avoid that.

[Raildude's dad]

5 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I wonder if 131 through the South end of downtown will ever get resurfaced. Every time I drive that I just can't believe it's been left like that for so long, since I moved here almost 25 years ago. 

Longer than 25 years. Except for the patches 28th St to Ann St, that is the original concrete pavement, 60 year old concrete - good stuff.  If MDOT had kept up with joint maintenance, the patches would be smaller and fewer.  If they would micro grind the surface, it would ride smooth as glass.

[Khorasaurus1]

Hang on, the S-Curve can't be original concrete. It was completely torn down from Wealthy to Pearl and re-built from scratch in the late 90s...

[Raildude's dad]

Yes, the S-curve - mostly bridges and approaches - was removed and replaced. Opened to traffic in 2000- the year my daughter graduated from high school, that's how I remember  .

[MJLO]

15 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

Yes, the S-curve - mostly bridges and approaches - was removed and replaced. Opened to traffic in 2000- the year my daughter graduated from high school, that's how I remember  .

Yeah the S-curve is 20 year old concrete, everything else is my dads age.  I am hoping at some point they upgrade from Ann to the S-Curve and from Wealthy to 28th.  It would be nice to see it looking new and fresh

[Allison Slater]

On 3/25/2019 at 7:08 PM, Raildude's dad said:

Longer than 25 years. Except for the patches 28th St to Ann St, that is the original concrete pavement, 60 year old concrete - good stuff.  If MDOT had kept up with joint maintenance, the patches would be smaller and fewer.  If they would micro grind the surface, it would ride smooth as glass.

Whatever they did with the concrete back then, they need to start doing more of that.

[GRDadof3]

19 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

Yes, the S-curve - mostly bridges and approaches - was removed and replaced. Opened to traffic in 2000- the year my daughter graduated from high school, that's how I remember  .

That's crazy, that was the year my oldest daughter was born at Butterworth Hospital, January 2000. We also talk about how the S-curve was closed the year she was born. 

12 hours ago, tSlater said:

Whatever they did with the concrete back then, they need to start doing more of that.

No haven't you heard? MDOT needs to do more more more with less less less. Forget about doing things that will last for 50 years. Look at the M-6 work as a prime example: brilliant value engineering. 

This closure is a pretty big deal and starts Monday, and it seems like they're just now getting the word out to the public. I was just talking to people yesterday at an event who had no idea this was happening (they had no idea the Westbound highway is basically completely closing for 5 months). 

https://fox17online.com/2019/03/25/closure-of-westbound-i-196-and-downtown-gr-ramp-closures-begin-april-1/?fbclid=IwAR1jOs1ajIHMqX0-MtC7geWvimbGUGVa4mwyqXuyxVxTu2apY5GnfsuEs94

The detour to go up I-96 toward Plainfield Avenue and get on 131 to go South is going to be backed up for miles, I predict. 41,000 extra cars a day going through a cloverleaf exit to get on 131 Southbound will be a major pinch point. Plan ahead! 

I may take the detour route today and time it, and then double that number!  

 

[GRLaker]

12 hours ago, tSlater said:

Whatever they did with the concrete back then, they need to start doing more of that.

No joke. I was driving on the Ohio Turnpike this week. The cement was not new, but the surface was in great shape. It was a pleasant driving experience - minus the police hiding behind the divider wall every 10 miles. I know we have bad winters that don't mix well with roads, but so do a lot of states in the Midwest. You get what you pay for and Michigan roads are a perfect example of the negative side of that rule.

[MJLO]

28 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's crazy, that was the year my oldest daughter was born at Butterworth Hospital, January 2000. We also talk about how the S-curve was closed the year she was born. 

No haven't you heard? MDOT needs to do more more more with less less less. Forget about doing things that will last for 50 years. Look at the M-6 work as a prime example: brilliant value engineering. 

This closure is a pretty big deal and starts Monday, and it seems like they're just now getting the word out to the public. I was just talking to people yesterday at an event who had no idea this was happening (they had no idea the Westbound highway is basically completely closing for 5 months). 

https://fox17online.com/2019/03/25/closure-of-westbound-i-196-and-downtown-gr-ramp-closures-begin-april-1/?fbclid=IwAR1jOs1ajIHMqX0-MtC7geWvimbGUGVa4mwyqXuyxVxTu2apY5GnfsuEs94

The detour to go up I-96 toward Plainfield Avenue and get on 131 to go South is going to be backed up for miles, I predict. 41,000 extra cars a day going through a cloverleaf exit to get on 131 Southbound will be a major pinch point. 

 

Really?  I can see it being a huge headache, but it seems like MDOT has been talking about this for over a year now.  If people don't know it's been coming they must be ignoring the giant construction site they've been driving past on I-96 since September.  Downtown is a much bigger population and jobs center now than it was, but do you really think this will be more of a disruption than the total closure of 131 20 years ago?  I think the first 2 weeks will be chaotic as always and then for the most part people will figure it out.  It will be delayed but not the end of the world. 

I can tell you Spectrum's been creating awareness for a couple months now for the downtown campus.   The suburbanites who commute in from their ivory towers have been going through various stages of outrage and grief over parking for a while(to some of them having to take the 19 bus with the "commoners" is abominable.)  Their concern about this construction feels almost apocalyptic.   It seems that it's going to disproportionately affect people E/SE of the city more than anyone else, so I think they're being a bit histrionic.  

[GRDadof3]

19 minutes ago, MJLO said:

Really?  I can see it being a huge headache, but it seems like MDOT has been talking about this for over a year now.  If people don't know it's been coming they must be ignoring the giant construction site they've been driving past on I-96 since September.  Downtown is a much bigger population and jobs center now than it was 20 years ago but do you really think this will be more of a disruption than the total closure of 131 20 years ago?  I think the first 2 weeks will be chaotic as always and then for the most part people will figure it out.  It will be delayed but not the end of the world. 

I can tell you Spectrum's been creating awareness for a couple months now for the downtown campus.   The suburbanites who commute in from their ivory towers have been going through various stages of outrage and grief over parking for a while(to some of them having to take the 19 bus with the "commoners" is abominable.  Their concern about this construction feels almost apocalyptic.   It seems that it's going to disproportionately affect people E/SE of the city more than anyone else, so I think they're being a bit histrionic.  

It's been talked about and there are signs on the highway that have been warning people (but I think they've only been up for a couple of weeks).  I don't think they've done a good job of communicating that you won't be able to go cross-town anymore for 5 months. Or that to get downtown there's only going to be 1 lane the whole way when there's really a need for 3 lanes now at rush hours. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who live in the Forest Hills/Cascade area who had no idea. I've been posting it on my FB page for months and people had no idea. I guess it depends on where you get your local news.

The s-curve closure, if you remember, was a highly choreographed campaign. And back then it was about 50,000 cars a day in each direction on the s-curve. This is 41,000 in each direction, so getting close to the 1999 s-curve volumes with the growth going on. They even ran shuttle buses from South of downtown during the s-curve shutdown (not sure why they discontinued those). 

A lot of people plan their commutes around daycare, school dropoffs and pickups, and a host of other things that single urbanites have no concept of.  Sometimes we have to step outside of our bubbles and think about how things affect other people.   #weareallinthistogether

I think also that their traffic counts are off. It's closer to 90,000 cars a day now on I-196 east of downtown, 44,000 in each direction. 

[JoeSchmo]

The bridge closure will easily double WB 96 traffic at a minimum.  And it will spill highway traffic downtown.    Traffic downtown near Michigan/Bridge/Leonard )will come to a halt through rush hour (if you thought it was slow already).   Who knows what this will do to 131 traffic... 131 has limited space for more traffic as is.

Also more traffic will spill downtown at other spots because NB131 to WB196 and SB131 to EB196 will be closed.

The thing with closing a bridge is that there are limited options for detours.   There are only 8 local bridges to cross the Grand River from Wealthy to N Park.  If you are not taking 96 over the river, you are going to take one of these.   This isn't just about suburbanites.    But anybody who needs to get from the east side of Grand Rapids to the west side of Grand Rapids.

[GRLaker]

This will be a major inconvenience for people for quite some time.  I feel sorry for anyone that will be taking 131 down into the city each day. It will be a mess between 96 and 196 everyday. Unfortunately, these are inconveniences we need in order to bring our infrastructure up to the needs of a metro area that has increased in size at a rate of approximately 10,000 per year. We can only hope that we don't have another labor dispute that doubles the time needed to complete the project.  

[JoeSchmo]

1 minute ago, GRLaker said:

 We can only hope that we don't have another labor dispute that doubles the time needed to complete the project.  

Oh man, better knock on wood.

[MJLO]

11 minutes ago, JoeSchmo said:

The bridge closure will easily double WB 96 traffic at a minimum.  And it will spill highway traffic downtown.    Traffic downtown near Michigan/Bridge/Leonard )will come to a halt through rush hour (if you thought it was slow already).   Who knows what this will do to 131 traffic... 131 has limited space for more traffic as is.

Also more traffic will spill downtown at other spots because NB131 to WB196 and SB131 to EB196 will be closed.

The thing with closing a bridge is that there are limited options for detours.   There are only 8 local bridges to cross the Grand River from Wealthy to N Park.  If you are not taking 96 over the river, you are going to take one of these.   This isn't just about suburbanites.    But anybody who needs to get from the east side of Grand Rapids to the west side of Grand Rapids.

I agree it's going to surge to some grid lock on surface streets.    Keep in mind due to the closure there will be no traffic merging onto North or southbound 131 from the WB Ford Freeway. That's tens of thousands of daily vehicles diverted.  It's hard to say how exactly 131 will be impacted.