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Highway and Road Construction Updates


GRDadof3

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It has taken construction crews half a year to redo Cottonwood in Jenison adding a single turn lane and they're still not even close to being done. It is a mile and a half of road. Can you imagine how much time it would take to bring this whole city up to snuff with what the population calls for?

With that said...Everything in that list is absolutely needed. Our infrastructure is horrendously out of date when it comes to number of lanes compared to population. 

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1 hour ago, crinzema said:

Now I'll admit that I might not be completely rational on this one. But Let me tell you, everyone like me or anyone more conservative than me gets really jaded driving down division street. I don't think dividing the lanes up between cars and buses was a smart move. But going forward, I would love to see the entire distance of division street given a facelift. If division street becomes vibrant, that would be big for Grand Rapids. 

If I might chime in, that lane says "buses only" and yet I see cars driving in it all the time.  It doesn't seem like people have much respect for the concept.

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5 minutes ago, ProtoSapien said:

If I might chime in, that lane says "buses only" and yet I see cars driving in it all the time.  It doesn't seem like people have much respect for the concept.

It's a diamond lane with limited restrictions.  Basically it's busses only M-F during rush times if you read the signs.  If you see someone driving in that lane Tuesday 2:30 in the afternoon, they are doing so legally.

 

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9 minutes ago, ProtoSapien said:

If I might chime in, that lane says "buses only" and yet I see cars driving in it all the time.  It doesn't seem like people have much respect for the concept.

It's "bus only" during certain periods of time (rush hour mainly). The roads are painted bus only but there are signs along the route with hours. 

Ehhh what mjlo said lol. 

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7 hours ago, JoeSchmo said:

You start widening highways and you often just shift the traffic problem to other locations 'downstream'. ...i.e. exits and secondary roads.  Also you just encourage more suburban sprawl until you have the same traffic issues again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Not saying there aren't actual issues though.

I think there's a difference between widening just for the sake of widening, that I agree does possibly create more suburban sprawl, and not having highways that are completely antiquated and designed for a population half the size we have now. The inner city of Grand Rapids and its surrounding cities are growing in population, at the same time that the suburban areas are growing. I don't think we have to worry about building highways that will take people out of the city to live.  And based on the number of cars that are leaving the city in the morning getting on I-196 Westbound (2 full left turn lanes at both Fuller and at College packed to the gills in the morning), people in the city are getting on the highways to get to work en masse! 

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I agree with a lot of your suggestions.  I come from Plainfield and 5 Mile area and work DT.  I don't even bother with 96 to 131 S (if it's even open yet).  Plainfield is a mess especially around Creston.  Coit to Monroe is a mess as Monroe gets backed way up into Riverside.  Coit to Plainfield has been my best solution.

As for removing bike lanes in GR, it's not going to happen anytime soon, look at all the time and money spent by the city of GR.

I do agree about a highway from Coopersville to Hudsonville, I have also suggested that a few times.  Now would be the prime time to start planning before it becomes developed.

I also think tougher testing for drivers would be helpful, not only for congestion, but my sanity.  Almost every traffic signal I see someone run a red light or just block the entire intersection.  People enter roundabouts and then yield to others.  And I'm sure everyone's favorite....  slow left lane drivers.  It's dangerous, clogs up traffic, and infuriating.  Wasn't MSP supposed to start cracking down on this?

Anyways not to get all political, but this is a pretty big issue.  One candidate wants to raise taxes and put them towards the roads, the other wants to cut taxes and figure it out later.  Vote for whatever you think makes sense.

 

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1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:

I agree with a lot of your suggestions.  I come from Plainfield and 5 Mile area and work DT.

Same (Beltline and 5 Mile.) Sometimes Google says Plainfield->96->131 is faster, sometimes EBL->196. I get off 196 at Ottawa and take Ottawa to the south end of DT instead of playing the get-from-left-side-of-131-to-right-side-while-doing-s-curve game. The morning commute isn't too bad, but the evening commute going anywhere northeast is absolutely terrible no matter which route I try.

I'd especially recommend drone footage of EBL between 5 Mile and West River Dr. Also West River Dr. west of EBL. EBL is backed up with red lights all the way past Plainfield. I often see people waiting at a green light to turn left into Walgreens because the opposite direction is backed up and stopped in the middle of the intersection. Then on West River Dr. (2-lane) you see a constant quarter-mile of backed up traffic all in one lane with the other lane nearly empty for right-turn-only traffic. The green light does not last very long at all. Either the left-turn lanes need to be extended further back, or straight-ahead traffic needs two instead of one lane. Which one I'm not sure, I'm the lucky one who turns right onto SB Beltline. 131 to West River Dr. exit seems really unpredictable on the evening commute. Sometimes it's quick and easy, sometimes it's backed up for a mile, and there's never really any clue as to why.

EB 3 Mile onto NB Dean Lake Rd might be better now, maybe it was just due to the I-96 construction, but there were usually 5-6 cars trying to make that left turn during evening rush hour, and only one car being able to make that turn each traffic signal cycle. I'd see the light turn green 5 times before I'd get to the front of the line. Similar was experienced with EB Knapp onto NB Dean Lake.

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1 hour ago, tSlater said:

Same (Beltline and 5 Mile.) Sometimes Google says Plainfield->96->131 is faster, sometimes EBL->196. I get off 196 at Ottawa and take Ottawa to the south end of DT instead of playing the get-from-left-side-of-131-to-right-side-while-doing-s-curve game. The morning commute isn't too bad, but the evening commute going anywhere northeast is absolutely terrible no matter which route I try.

I'd especially recommend drone footage of EBL between 5 Mile and West River Dr. Also West River Dr. west of EBL. EBL is backed up with red lights all the way past Plainfield. I often see people waiting at a green light to turn left into Walgreens because the opposite direction is backed up and stopped in the middle of the intersection. Then on West River Dr. (2-lane) you see a constant quarter-mile of backed up traffic all in one lane with the other lane nearly empty for right-turn-only traffic. The green light does not last very long at all. Either the left-turn lanes need to be extended further back, or straight-ahead traffic needs two instead of one lane. Which one I'm not sure, I'm the lucky one who turns right onto SB Beltline. 131 to West River Dr. exit seems really unpredictable on the evening commute. Sometimes it's quick and easy, sometimes it's backed up for a mile, and there's never really any clue as to why.

EB 3 Mile onto NB Dean Lake Rd might be better now, maybe it was just due to the I-96 construction, but there were usually 5-6 cars trying to make that left turn during evening rush hour, and only one car being able to make that turn each traffic signal cycle. I'd see the light turn green 5 times before I'd get to the front of the line. Similar was experienced with EB Knapp onto NB Dean Lake.

That's the "How many green lights will we have to sit through before I can turn left" game. Same thing happens at Knapp and Grand River in the morning and in the evening rush hour. The most I've sat through is probably 5.They're rebuilding that entire area of Knapp and doing nothing to address the light issue. 

Is any organization looking at all of this? The Grand Valley Metro Council used to do a lot around these issues but I haven't heard from them in a decade. 

I think the driver behavior issues too are directly related to a breakdown in our transportation system. People are getting desperate and resorting to reckless behavior. Or hogging the left lane because they know if they go in the right lane they will never EVER make it back to the left lane. 

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1 minute ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's the "How many green lights will we have to sit through before I can turn left" game. Same thing happens at Knapp and Grand River in the morning and in the evening rush hour. The most I've sat through is probably 5.They're rebuilding that entire area of Knapp and doing nothing to address the light issue. 

Is any organization looking at all of this? The Grand Valley Metro Council used to do a lot around these issues but I haven't heard from them in a decade. 

Yup I've done this at Knapp and Grand River even well past rush hour.  Oncoming traffic will usually run the red and if you have someone who isn't ballsy enough they'll try it on the next round.   I was behind a lady like this on Madison turning left onto 28th this week.  She waited FIVE light cycles to actually make a left turn, just oblivious to the chorus of horns around her.

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1 minute ago, Floyd_Z said:

Yup I've done this at Knapp and Grand River even well past rush hour.  Oncoming traffic will usually run the red and if you have someone who isn't ballsy enough they'll try it on the next round.   I was behind a lady like this on Madison turning left onto 28th this week.  She waited FIVE light cycles to actually make a left turn, just oblivious to the chorus of horns around her.

It takes a little while to realize that you have to break the law (run the red) to make the left turn. Some people are uncomfortable with it. :)

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3 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

It takes a little while to realize that you have to break the law (run the red) to make the left turn. Some people are uncomfortable with it. :)

I was taught in drivers ed to get your car out there and turn on yellow or red if you had to so you're not impeding traffic

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It is legal to pull into the intersection on a green light while waiting for traffic to clear. Even once the light is red, if you are in the intersection you are legally allowed to complete your turn, and oncoming perpendicular traffic needs to wait for you to make your turn (since you'll be blocking their traffic flow.) This ensures at least one car is able to get through on every cycle. So as long as you pull forward into the intersection before turning left, you're not actually breaking the law.

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2 hours ago, tSlater said:

It is legal to pull into the intersection on a green light while waiting for traffic to clear. Even once the light is red, if you are in the intersection you are legally allowed to complete your turn, and oncoming perpendicular traffic needs to wait for you to make your turn (since you'll be blocking their traffic flow.) This ensures at least one car is able to get through on every cycle. So as long as you pull forward into the intersection before turning left, you're not actually breaking the law.

I don't think most people understand that it's legal to do. The other thing is that some people don't go into the intersection, they hang back and wait for an opening. Then they're running a red light (it appears).

The other mess that happens at Knapp and Grand River is that Southbound traffic on Grand River backs up so far to make a left turn, that the traffic that wants to go straight, can't.  :P 

Now where's crinzema and that drone!

 

 

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10 minutes ago, ctpgr34 said:

Kramer will take care of it!

pdvd81692.8686.jpg

This is reminds me of one of my largest road related gripes, Grand Rapids' (and Michigan's) terrible upkeep of road markings.

I'd also like to complain about the underuse of reflectors both in the roads and along the sides of roads, they make such a massive difference in nighttime and rainy weather driving.

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14 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

That's the "How many green lights will we have to sit through before I can turn left" game. Same thing happens at Knapp and Grand River in the morning and in the evening rush hour. The most I've sat through is probably 5.They're rebuilding that entire area of Knapp and doing nothing to address the light issue. 

Is any organization looking at all of this? The Grand Valley Metro Council used to do a lot around these issues but I haven't heard from them in a decade. 

I think the driver behavior issues too are directly related to a breakdown in our transportation system. People are getting desperate and resorting to reckless behavior. Or hogging the left lane because they know if they go in the right lane they will never EVER make it back to the left lane. 

Even where there's a left turn arrow, my favorite is the driver who sits in line through several cycles of the light then, when they are first in line, still seems surprised when the light changes and gives them the green arrow - as if it is some random occurrence and the green arrow just appeared randomly.  

Also, thank you for the clarification on the bus lane.  I don't drive that stretch of Division often enough so when I do I've been perplexed by the situation.

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On 10/17/2018 at 1:09 PM, GRLaker said:

It has taken construction crews half a year to redo Cottonwood in Jenison adding a single turn lane and they're still not even close to being done. It is a mile and a half of road. Can you imagine how much time it would take to bring this whole city up to snuff with what the population calls for?

With that said...Everything in that list is absolutely needed. Our infrastructure is horrendously out of date when it comes to number of lanes compared to population. 

I don't know where to start responding to this thread . Roads and bridges have been my passion and career for 46 years. I will start by responding to this post. The Cottonwood project is far more than adding a single lane. It's a complete rebuild with adding township water main and a sanitary force main. Check out the OCRC website for the project info and photo's.

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26 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

I don't know where to start responding to this thread . Roads and bridges have been my passion and career for 46 years. I will start by responding to this post. The Cottonwood project is far more than adding a single lane. It's a complete rebuild with adding township water main and a sanitary force main. Check out the OCRC website for the project info and photo's.

I also heard they were part of the strike that was going on.

Here's another total boondoggle: traffic headed Eastbound on I-196 trying to go North on 131 at rush hour. Traffic is so backed up, that cars have to make their own exit ramp in the breakdown lane (shoulder) along I-196, which causes all kinds of people to pass the exit ramp and try to get in later, causing near accidents.  It's particularly bad on Fridays during the summer, when you combine people heading north. 

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1 hour ago, Raildude's dad said:

I finally  was able to check. Cascade West Parkway and Kenmoor both are demand actuated 24/7.  If you're stopped by the signal and there's no side street traffic, something is wrong. I've been told it can be a defective sensor (the little orange pucks in the pavement) or a stuck ped signal button. The signal will default to cycling so traffic can get out.  If you notice something like that either call the Road Commission (or the City if in GR) or submit it on-line.  I go thru Alpine and Ann a lot.  I noticed traffic was backing up  nb Alpine  every night more than usual.  Passed that info to the City.  Sure enough, the wb left turn orange puck was defective and the signal had defaulted to cycling instead of being on demand for Ann St. 

As for East Paris, when the Harley Hotel went under (closed the doors and sat vacant) and there was minimal development on Cascade, it was suggested by  several engineers  the property be bought by MDOT, the RC , or the township  for an interchange rebuild. Exit was easy, entrance would have meant a flyover of I-96 for a right side entrance ramp. No one stepped up to make the  purchase. Trivia - I worked for the painting contractor that painted (and hung wallpaper - lots of it - ugly as all get out) when the hotel was built  when I was going to college (68-71)

A similar  suggestion was made for Burton and Patterson.  Burton over Patterson with a single direction Patterson I-96  exit / entrance.  I just saw those concept drawings again a few weeks ago:).  MDOT said the feds won't allow a one direction interchange. But I'll bet you a lot of money they never asked :(.  Sometimes common sense prevails but one needs to ask - ask me how I know. 

I've always said when an area gets to a certain density, it goes into gridlock in spite of all the planning that goes on.  Unless our government becomes an autocracy,  the planners can't just appropriate land for the good of the people or arbitrarily decide land use.

Gridlock is understandable but when traffic systems aren't upgraded to meet demand it starts leading to danger to people's lives; that's quite another topic.  There's a discussion about this going on on Facebook too about creating a new regional authority to address all of these issues. Growth in Byron Center affects Wyoming. Growth in Hudsonville affects Grandville. Growth in Allendale affects Walker. And on and on. 

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3 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

I finally  was able to check. Cascade West Parkway and Kenmoor both are demand actuated 24/7.  If you're stopped by the signal and there's no side street traffic, something is wrong. I've been told it can be a defective sensor (the little orange pucks in the pavement) or a stuck ped signal button. The signal will default to cycling so traffic can get out.  If you notice something like that either call the Road Commission (or the City if in GR) or submit it on-line.  I go thru Alpine and Ann a lot.  I noticed traffic was backing up  nb Alpine  every night more than usual.  Passed that info to the City.  Sure enough, the wb left turn orange puck was defective and the signal had defaulted to cycling instead of being on demand for Ann St. 

As for East Paris, when the Harley Hotel went under (closed the doors and sat vacant) and there was minimal development on Cascade, it was suggested by  several engineers  the property be bought by MDOT, the RC , or the township  for an interchange rebuild. Exit was easy, entrance would have meant a flyover of I-96 for a right side entrance ramp. No one stepped up to make the  purchase. Trivia - I worked for the painting contractor that painted (and hung wallpaper - lots of it - ugly as all get out) when the hotel was built  when I was going to college (68-71)

A similar  suggestion was made for Burton and Patterson.  Burton over Patterson with a single direction Patterson I-96  exit / entrance.  I just saw those concept drawings again a few weeks ago:).  MDOT said the feds won't allow a one direction interchange. But I'll bet you a lot of money they never asked :(.  Sometimes common sense prevails but one needs to ask - ask me how I know. 

I've always said when an area gets to a certain density, it goes into gridlock in spite of all the planning that goes on.  Unless our government becomes an autocracy,  the planners can't just appropriate land for the good of the people or arbitrarily decide land use.

Good to know.  Thank you for the info.  I don’t know what’s up with Kenmore but now I know who to contact.

As for East Paris, I just with the drive into the Metro Health building were the opposite side of the intersection and the Parkway intersection had been closed.  It’s too late for that now.

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8 hours ago, Raildude's dad said:

The everyday users know that they need to get in that lane due to the backups, folks that don't know go past and then there's the a-holes that deliberately go past to cut in.  MDOT actually has the lanes eb and wb here for the 3 laneing of  196.

Exactly. So why aren't they making them actual lanes? 

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