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GRDadof3

Highway and Road Construction Updates

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42 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

MITA did not shut anything down. They had been the negotiating voice for the contractors. The Operating Engineers union said they were going to negotiate with the individual companies not MITA. They threatened to walk out after the contractors refused to individually negotiate. The contractors all shut down and refused to let the operators strike or come to work, that's  called an employer lockout.

This is situation that no owner ie the Road Commission wants to be in. I've had a couple where we could only get the base asphalt down. In fact I  have a small one that is that way right now.  There might be some patching that will be done in the spring but it will be okay.

There's blame to be shared by both the Operating Engineers and the contractors to let it happen.

So do you think the base layer will be driveable for the winter then?

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Odd another halfazz project why it’s there a ramp from east 96 to West 196? Why is t there a 3rd (and 4th) thane from Fuller east to 196? I know they said future expansion in mind but so was van andel areana 

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"why it’s there a ramp from east 96 to West 196?" What you mean Willis? :unsure:

The 3/4th lane is for when wb 196 is rebuilt west bound traffic will be put on eb 196 with a concrete barrier between EB and WB traffic.  A good thing is there now if funding for the 3rd lane eb 1906 Fuller to EBL.

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8 minutes ago, Raildude's dad said:

"why it’s there a ramp from east 96 to West 196?" What you mean Willis? :unsure:

The 3/4th lane is for when wb 196 is rebuilt west bound traffic will be put on eb 196 with a concrete barrier between EB and WB traffic.  A good thing is there now if funding for the 3rd lane eb 1906 Fuller to EBL.

I had to read it 47 times, but I THINK what they meant to say is "why no connection from eastbound 96 to westbound 196". 

I'd love to see this as well as I could avoid the East Beltline, getting on 96 eastbound and (if it existed) merge onto 196 westbound. Raildude, is this in the long-term plan? If anyone would know, I think it would be you. :)

Joe

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The reason I asked  what was meant because there is a crossover "ramp" if you will for wb 196 to eb 196 east of Maryland.  I've been told the eb 96 to wb 196 ramp is shown in the Environmental Assessment for the current project(s) and the grades have been laid out to make sure it can be physically constructed once the current work is complete. I got the grade info from the engineer that did it :good:. However the ramp is not in any of the current projects for the interchange. 

Michigan places too much emphasis on pavement condition and not enough on fixing capacity / congestion projects like this.  They also will pay the big dollars for milling and filling once a few cracks show up rather than extending the pavement life with some crack filling / sealing, seal coating and other pavement maintenance treatments. 

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The next phase of the Ionia/Michigan/I-196/Division ramp reconfiguration/addition is set to begin. Can anyone decipher this? Draw a graphic? :)

This project consists of the Reconstruction of Ionia Avenue from Michigan Street to 750 feet North of Michigan Street; Division Avenue from 1200 feet South of Fairbanks Street to 770 feet south of Fairbanks Street; and I-196 Westbound On-Ramp at Ionia Avenue and Division Avenue. This work will provide a new on-ramp to westbound I-196 at Division Avenue and will connect Ionia Avenue to Division Avenue from Michigan Street. The existing on-ramps to I-196 Eastbound and Westbound from Ionia Avenue will be improved. Connection to Ionia Avenue north of I-196 will be maintained from Newberry Street and Fairbanks Street. Work includes pavement removal, new storm sewer, traffic signals, street lighting, concrete curb and gutter, American with Disabilities Act (ADA) compliant ramps, hot mixed asphalt pavement, street trees, pavement markings and final restoration.

 

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11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

The next phase of the Ionia/Michigan/I-196/Division ramp reconfiguration/addition is set to begin. Can anyone decipher this? Draw a graphic? :)

This project consists of the Reconstruction of Ionia Avenue from Michigan Street to 750 feet North of Michigan Street; Division Avenue from 1200 feet South of Fairbanks Street to 770 feet south of Fairbanks Street; and I-196 Westbound On-Ramp at Ionia Avenue and Division Avenue. This work will provide a new on-ramp to westbound I-196 at Division Avenue and will connect Ionia Avenue to Division Avenue from Michigan Street. The existing on-ramps to I-196 Eastbound and Westbound from Ionia Avenue will be improved. Connection to Ionia Avenue north of I-196 will be maintained from Newberry Street and Fairbanks Street. Work includes pavement removal, new storm sewer, traffic signals, street lighting, concrete curb and gutter, American with Disabilities Act (ADA) compliant ramps, hot mixed asphalt pavement, street trees, pavement markings and final restoration.

 

Sounds kind of like this mockup you did a few years back:
 

25830626386_5ecb151623_o.jpg&key=5a9fa56

According to the measurements, the section of Ionia being reconstructed is between the Ottawa exit overpass and Michigan, and the section of Division being reconstructed is between the Ottawa exit overpass and the highway overpass. But it does seem to indicate that Ionia won't be removed north of that, so probably what we see here in red with Ionia still poking through on the North side? Or maybe Ionia will dead-end and be cut off from the rest of itself?

Edited by tSlater

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6 hours ago, tSlater said:

Sounds kind of like this mockup you did a few years back:
 

25830626386_5ecb151623_o.jpg&key=5a9fa56

According to the measurements, the section of Ionia being reconstructed is between the Ottawa exit overpass and Michigan, and the section of Division being reconstructed is between the Ottawa exit overpass and the highway overpass. But it does seem to indicate that Ionia won't be removed north of that, so probably what we see here in red with Ionia still poking through on the North side? Or maybe Ionia will dead-end and be cut off from the rest of itself?

Oh I didn't make that, I think MDOT or NOBL did maybe? That sort of makes sense though, except the part about abandoning Ionia north of 196 which I don't think they're doing now. 

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https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/bipartisan-ex-legislators-propose-gas-tax-hike-fix-michigan-roads

"Under the Consensus Policy Project proposal, close to $2.5 billion would be raised in total over nine years by increasing the state’s regular and diesel gas taxes by 5 cents per year. The group estimates its proposal would raise $275 million the first year, $550 million in year two and $825 million by the third year, eventually nearing $2.5 billion by year nine."

I am all for this, let the people that drive the most pay to fix the damn roads.

I would think $2.5 Billion per year would lead to some significant projects.  The only question is... Would west MI see much of that money or would it go to Lansing and Metro Detroit like it does now?

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1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:

I would think $2.5 Billion per year would lead to some significant projects.  The only question is... Would west MI see much of that money or would it go to Lansing and Metro Detroit like it does now?

Now's the time to reach out to our state legislative representatives. Otherwise I imagine it would be status quo like always.

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1 hour ago, Floyd_Z said:

https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sector/bipartisan-ex-legislators-propose-gas-tax-hike-fix-michigan-roads

"Under the Consensus Policy Project proposal, close to $2.5 billion would be raised in total over nine years by increasing the state’s regular and diesel gas taxes by 5 cents per year. The group estimates its proposal would raise $275 million the first year, $550 million in year two and $825 million by the third year, eventually nearing $2.5 billion by year nine."

 I am all for this, let the people that drive the most pay to fix the damn roads.

 I would think $2.5 Billion per year would lead to some significant projects.  The only question is... Would west MI see much of that money or would it go to Lansing and Metro Detroit like it does now?

This article doesn't really spell it out, but I would prefer that any legislative fix (ie, tax hike), means that all gas tax money goes towards infrastructure.  Michigan already has one of the highest gas taxes in the country, because so much of that money gets diverted elsewhere.  If that also means an income tax hike, so be it, but a consumption tax should go towards said consumption.

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17 hours ago, cutlervillegr said:

This article doesn't really spell it out, but I would prefer that any legislative fix (ie, tax hike), means that all gas tax money goes towards infrastructure.  Michigan already has one of the highest gas taxes in the country, because so much of that money gets diverted elsewhere.  If that also means an income tax hike, so be it, but a consumption tax should go towards said consumption.

This is a handy dandy info sheet:

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/RealityCheckMyth6_473561_7.pdf

You can't really say that Michigan has the "highest gas tax in the country" because how States collect revenue for transportation varies from State to State and even MSA to MSA (some urban counties collect additional sales tax for transportation, like Denver and Chicago). Another State may have a lower per gallon fuel tax but they make up road funding elsewhere. 

A lot of the Michigan gas tax collected now goes to pay down debt for transportation/infrastructure debt from previous administrations (Engler and Granholm). All because we haven't been collecting enough for decades. 

It feels like we Michiganders have been arguing about this for at least a decade online. I really, really hope that clearer heads prevail this time and something is done that puts us on the right path. 

 

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A gas tax just makes the most sense to me.  We're two peninsulas so tolls wouldn't really work/  Maybe we could just charge all the Chicagolanders who invade our beaches in the summer?

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12 hours ago, Floyd_Z said:

A gas tax just makes the most sense to me.  We're two peninsulas so tolls wouldn't really work/  Maybe we could just charge all the Chicagolanders who invade our beaches in the summer?

We could. Charge an out-of-state fee for permits to parks and beaches. A lot of them pay non-homestead tax rates on cottages but none of that goes toward transportation except maybe the local county roads. 

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I am really confused by that map. What happens to Ionia ave? It seems like you are forced to go on to 196 West or Division Ave. 

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8 minutes ago, jonrapley said:

I am really confused by that map. What happens to Ionia ave? It seems like you are forced to go on to 196 West or Division Ave. 

It was originally going to be completely vacated but now it's more of a service drive for those parking lots. 

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8 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

It was originally going to be completely vacated but now it's more of a service drive for those parking lots. 

That seems silly not to vacate it.  What's the reason the driveways for those lots can't be extended to division.  

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2 hours ago, MJLO said:

That seems silly not to vacate it.  What's the reason the driveways for those lots can't be extended to division.  

They should at least look into turning Ionia into a bike path if they were planning to use it as a service drive for the parking lots. 

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3 hours ago, jonrapley said:

They should at least look into turning Ionia into a bike path if they were planning to use it as a service drive for the parking lots. 

I think that was part of the original plan too. But then they put the dedicated bike paths up on North Division and I think that was a lower cost option. I don't know the details behind the decisions. 

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