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The pictures are FANTASTIC, the angles are GREAT and Flash has delivered an outstanding thread, once again!!!

DT Raleigh needs some serious strengthening, with several towers in between its two tallest buildings. The linear skyline pattern that has developed in the past is about to break big time, especially if the 37-story proposal by Reynolds & Reynolds materializes. Between their 14-story mixed-use tower (under construction), the 20-story Clarion Hotel (visible in only one photo here) and the proposed new tallest, the skyline will shift a bit to the West. However, along Wilmington Str, Fayetteville Street Mall and Salisbury Str developers will also need to consider building some towers between 25 and 40 stories. DT Raleigh looks really nice and comfortable from most South-West locations. It is sad, however, that after almost $100 million, we still cannot see the Two Progress Plaza :( OK, we can see the very top of it, but it looks as part of the building in front of it.

I loved ALL pictures, but I have to say I am impressed with this one:

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This is the 20-story cylindrical Clarion Hotel. I don't remember what the name of the restaurant (top floor) is , but I haven't heard anything impressive about it. In fact, some people were disappointed. This doesn't come from my own experience, so take it with a grain of salt. However, I am pretty certain this is not a revolving/rotating restaurant. Just for the record, the 37-story tower is proposed for the lot right in front of the Clarion Hotel, as you look at the photo, while the 14-story tower (currently under way) will appear behind it. The picture with the Clarion Hotel will be used in the future for some "before" and "after" comparisons, as the "skyline in that area will change dramatically.

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No words can do justice to the quality of these OUTSTANDING pictures!!! Flash can only deliver quality and I have come to accept this as a fact. He is the Sean Reynolds of Raleigh :) It is nice to see several projects under way (e.g. The Paramount, The Dawson, the New North Hills), but the biggest surprise are the two panoramas at the end. Definitely the BEST panos of the Government Complex and the rest of the CBD. Unfortunately, our second tallest (Wachovia Center) and a few other smaller towers are not visible (that's impossible from the spot where the photos were taken), but these panos are BY FAR the best we've seen of DT Raleigh. Actually, the entire thread is the BEST DT Raleigh thread I've seen so far.

wolfdawg54: I would like to post a few pics from NCSU, since you asked, but you can see more of that area by visiting my galleries (look at my signature for a link. Flash may share his NCSU photos if he has any. First of all, in one of Flash's photos you can see the campus; it is visible near the top of the picture:

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Fearing that any extensive postings may turn into a hijacking of Flash's thread, I will only post a few photos, but more may be seen by clicking this link NCSU-Hillsborough Street. Here is a sample:

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The more I look at the panoramic views, the more I realize how "dangerous" these times are for DT Raleigh. It can go either way. In the first panorama you can see how much space the state government occupies. Well, it is a lot, I am telling you. It is not fully developed and it has the potential to host every state employee currently working in Raleigh. For the record, many state employees work outside downtown and I feel that the "wise men" of our state should make the decision to build taller structures and bring ALL state employees to the center. Also, they should work with local developers on incorporating retail and residential nearby, with state employees in mind. That is, offer discounts to the latter for renting an apartment, or buying a house near this area. There is plenty of room for such projects. North Blount Street is heading this way, with 25-30 acres ready for redevelopment. If you look at the map below you can get a nice idea of the area:

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To give you a better picture, look at the following photo and place it across from building 45, near the left top of the map:

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Here is an aerial view of the North Blount District; it covers the area in the map, plus a few more blocks:

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By the way, I work in Building 60 (Phillips) so I have a pretty good idea of what this area looks like. I can tell you one thing: Towers above 6 stories may not make much sense (except for the lots along Wilmington Str and in blocks that currently serve as parking lots - see the first photo below), but the opportunity to build elegant mid-rises must be realized. North Blount is an excellent candidate for some Victorian and Neo-Classical style mid-rises. Why do I insist on mid-rises? Well, take a look at the following pictures and you will see why. Not all of them are from within the North Blount district, but you can get a clear picture of what the area looks like:

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Blount Street has not been blessed with a true high-rise identity, but it offers much in low-to-mid-rises. With detached "houses" reaching as high as 4 stories, no NIMBY types should reject a mid-rise up to 6 stories. If something like The Dawson goes up, then it may ruin the current identity of this district. Modern architecture has no place in this area and I am sure that whoever develops this district will keep this in mind.

Flash's panoramas make me feel hopeful and uneasy, at the same time. I am not sure that ANYONE could control the process of redevelopment in a way that a truly urban core, with heights and density will be developed, but when one looks at those panoramas cannot help but to see several lots that deserve to become "homes" to some major projects. It scares me to think that the city leaders envision towers (do they really?) only within and around Fayetteville Street Mall. It would be a crime to open the door to small developments that simply don't fit. As I mentioned several times since Reynolds & Reynolds made the announcement for the possibility of seeing a new tallest for Raleigh, a new window of opportunity opens up wide at the western part of downtown. It may not include several towers, but one 14-story (currently under way) and a 37-story can definitely help the effort to change the low-rise attitude of that area... with the exception of the 20-story Clarion Hotel, which has been there for a while. DT Raleigh MUST invest outside Fayetteville Street Mall. Sure, it will take more time to pay off, but once the tone is set for the entire center, it will be hard to encourage small scale buildings, or discourage high-rises. The area I am referring to isn't clearly shown in Flash's pictures, but the first panorama includes part of it, to the left-most of the picture.

Sorry for putting so much information and including so many pictures in a thread that I do not own. Flash's photography is thought provoking (I hope this came out as a positive comment; that is how I mean it), to say the least, and makes me think a lot. I can see all pros and cons of developing around downtown from different perspectives. Sure, I can see things just fine from the street level, but the view from about 390 feet above ground is always better.

Flash: did you take any photos that you can use to create a panoramic view of the west side? It would be nice to see how the area looks today and compare it after Reynolds & Reynolds finish with their towers. If not, then we have to put it in the agenda for the next time :) By the way, thanks to you and your girlfriend for coming to Piccola Italia. Sorry I didn't have much time to chat with you more, but I would assume you two wanted to have a relaxing dinner and not having someone bothering you all the time :)

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  • 2 months later...

Looks like you are anxious for some fresh DT Raleigh & DT Durham photos :)

The following photo is one of my favorites:

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I wish someone could take the same picture today, so we can see how DT Raleigh looks from that angle after the completion of Two Progress Plaza. In fact, I would like to see a close up of the CBD (I am excluding the state government complex), although I am afraid I will be very disappointed. I just wish some developers could build more towers along Wilmington and Salisbury streets.

The first two photos show the best angle for DT Raleigh (actually CBD) shots. In reality it looks far more impressive when you drive towards the center and all of the sudden you see the core... It is a really nice view, but not for long. Every time I look at shots from this angle I get pissed because I see how small impact both the proposed convention center and hotel will make to the skyline. Considering the landscape, even the convention center could have made an impact. As envisioned, it will be buried between the two parking decks (where the letter T is, in the second photo's logo). Oh well :(

Durham's skyline, however, may be small, but it is cute. The addition of the twin tower won't have an impact from the angle the posted photo was shot, but it will surely strengthen the image of DT Durham. If the developer could manage to boost the height even more (he seems to be pretty open if demand exists), then the twin tower could start a new era of high-rise development for the City of Medicine. Of course, I always wished that Duke Hospitals were located inside the core, but what the heck, they almost create a second downtown for Durham.

For the inpatient, I have lots of new photos, but no space to store them. As soon as I sort them out I will buy some more space and upload them. You know what comes next... That's right, new threads!!!

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Greensboro and Raleigh are similar in that there are two or three downtown building always left out of most photos of the skyline due to big gaps. The tall building to the far left of this photo below is usually left out of most photos. In Greensboro, the Guilford Building and the gateway plaza residential tower are both downtown but are typically left out of skyline photos due to a large gap.

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Correct!!! Raleigh's biggest problem is its linear skyline. Were the buildings arranged differently, the skyline would have looked better, although still not impressive. I would also like to share a few of my own photos, which show all downtown towers. These photos have been posted here before, but this thread justifies a reposting:

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Here is one from Durham. In fact, I took a picture of a large photo that I saw hanging on a wall. Still, I think it is really nice:

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The truth is, Raleigh has a small skyline for its population :( We would love to see this changing, but it will definitely take a very long time before anything happens in that department. With the upcoming projects (one under way and one proposal) we expect the skyline to look like this:

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OK, here comes the big vision, but please don't laugh. This is what I think DT Raleigh's skyline should look like:

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Whether it is feasible, or not, it doesn't matter... DT Raleigh should have had at least 2-3 skyscrapers above 40 stories and another 5-6 tower of 25+ stories. Then, another 10 towers between 15 and 20 stories would have completed the picture just fine. For the moment, we just have to do without major visions and numerous skyscrapers :(

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Those are great Raleigh-NC! Maybe I'm alone, but I like Raleigh's skyline. I also like Atlanta's...I love the way linear skylines look from a distance, but it isn't a good way to make a downtown I'll admit, LOL! Makes for good pictures though.

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Greensboro and Raleigh are similar in that there are two or three downtown building always left out of most photos of the skyline due to big gaps. The tall building to the far left of this photo below is usually left out of most photos. In Greensboro, the Guilford Building and the gateway plaza residential tower are both downtown but are typically left out of skyline photos due to a large gap.

Columbia has that problem too. It's skyline is modestly spread out, and usually only the middle cluster of buildings are seen in most photographs.

Recently I found a picture that actually shows the entire skyline, and is one of my favorite shots of DT!

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Those are great Raleigh-NC!  Maybe I'm alone, but I like Raleigh's skyline.  I also like Atlanta's...I love the way linear skylines look from a distance, but it isn't a good way to make a downtown I'll admit, LOL!  Makes for good pictures though.

Thanks, Neo! Raleigh's skyline has a few good moments, but it is far from what it should be. This is precisely where Winston-Salem wins [easily] the second best NC skyline "award". Unless there is a significant number of high-rises clustered together, the skyline runs into the risk of looking small. In the photos I posted, DT Raleigh looks nice, but we all know that it has more than just one face. Here is another picture, from a forumer over at SSP:

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Now, this is where DT Raleigh begins to show promise; its South end. With a few more high-rises possible (there are at least 6 lots available - one of them is reserved for the proposed 14-story convention hotel), this side can boost our center's image. It is not only feasible, it is very possible. Even with a few infills, the area will see a trementdous boost in pedestrian traffic and definitely numerous new destinations. Being so near City Market is definitely a plus and offers developers incentives. Once this area gets a boost, expect more on the West side of downtown (left side of the photo above) as well. DT Raleigh can escape the linear pattern of high-rise development, while maintaining a decent skyline from a distance. It amazes me that even the 19-story Two Progress Plaza can't help the skyline from what most of us consider the best angle: McDowell Street, when driving from the south of downtown towards the north. That angle is still a killer!!!

The_sandlapper, you must be talking about the linear view of DT Columbia recently posted by another forumer (correct me if I am wrong). In that case, DT Columbia looked amazing!!! A nice angle can make a Hell of a difference.

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Actually Raleigh-NC, that view was taken at a 90 degree angle of downtown. So a alot of the buildings you see to the right of the main cluster are behind it. The other pic is taken at a 180 degree angle ( I'm assuming thaat's what you mean by linear), but most pictures of Columbia are taken head on, and usually leave out the three tall buildings to the left of the main cluster of buildings.

Seen at a 90 degree angle

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Seen at a more linear (180 degree) angle

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Angle plays a huge role in the case of Raleigh. No matter from which side you view DT Winston-Salem, you get a nice shot. In Raleigh's case, the ONLY way you can see all buildings is by going to the parking deck of Raleigh Community Hospital (where I got the shots I posted earlier). Of course, you can get an aerial view of downtown and see everything, but right now we are talking about photos from street-level, or an elevated position. Another DT Raleigh photo that I like a lot is the following:

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The distance to the downtown area looks very small in this photo, but the truth is that the core lies at at greater distance, with Dorothea Dix Campus in between. The photo doesn't do justice to DT Raleigh, but it is, nevertheless, a great way to view the entire downtown. Notice that the 19-story Two Progress Plaza was not built when the photo was taken, but I am afraid that it would not have made much difference from this angle. An aerial shot from South-West, North-West, or North-East would have worked even better.

On the other hand, the proposed new tallest (34-37 stories) will definitely stand out; it will be located somewhere between the left-most high-rise (the boxy white building) and the skyscraper that dominates the center, as you look at the above photo. It will be more towards the center skyscraper (Wachovia Center) and to the West, but the height will definitely make an impact on the overall picture, no matter where you look at the skyline from... Well, not always :(

By the way, I think that the same applies to DT Columbia, as clearly seen in the two photos posted. In a sense, DT Columbia faces the same challenges with DT Raleigh. Many important buildings cannot be seen. In a city where skyscrapers exist in abundance, this may not be an issue. I mean, look at Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. No matter where you stand, the skyline looks full and nice. This won't happen in Raleigh for the next 50 years :(

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That's possibly one explanation, but I have one more: There are a lot of small-town thinking individuals in Raleigh. They try to place every little sh*thole under the umbrella of historic preservation, even when it makes no sense. I am collecting material (and ideas) to put together an essay on where high-rises may be built in DT Raleigh. This essay will be published, eventually, in my web site, under Publications. One of the reasons behind this essay is the small-town attitudes and how they affect the long-term corporate presence around downtown. Without high-rises, no major corporate entity would even think of relocating in DT Raleigh. This discussion can go too far, so I will stop here. So far, NC State Government contribution to the skyline is the 15-story Archdale Bldg, and we may also include the 11-story Albemarle Bldg, but only when we stand near DT Raleigh; it has no effect when the skyline is viewed from afar.

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