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The Confederate flag issue rekindled


GvilleSC

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Indicative enough of what?

Does that mean that the resentment towards the institution (not specific persons) isn't justified? Isn't it possible that such a widespread, damaging institution such as slavery, even if ended over 100 years ago, may have present and continuing effects, to some degree?

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As a white person with some relatives who immigrated to the US in the early 1900s, after slavery ended, I'd be in favor of a national slavery museum. Regardless of who did what to whom when, this is still an issue that has left a legacy of bitterness, and we should take the high road and reach out in reconciliation and healing to other groups. (And yes, I'm a Republican.)

Getting back on topic- urban development- this could also be a huge draw for an urban area.

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The one in Charleston was an "African American Museum," not a "savery museum." Obviously slavery will be an issue within it, but I hope that it will focus on the lives and culture of the slave population moreso than the institution of slavery itself. Despite the fact that they were slaves, their lives, lifestyle, and culture because of slavery, are quite interesting. I think that this type of musem, and not a "slavery museum" will be much more interesting and more educational, especially in a place like Charleston. Charleston has historically had a higher black population than white, even though whites have typically been in charge.

Slavery was one of many central issues in the Civil War digital_sandlapper, and any educated person should be able to acknowledge the fact that it was not the only issue. The war was not started to end slavery. Infact, when Lincoln brought that issue to the forefront in 1863, the war became less popular in the North because the original intent was to restore the Union, not to end slavery. I think what metro is saying is that there is nobody alive today has been directly impacted by slavery. There are certainly issues that work against blacks, but those issues are not limited to the South, so slavery must not be the only reason for it.

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Resentment towards slavery is not the same as disapproval of slavery. One can disagree with the idea of slavery without resenting it. Being resentful means that you have personally taken offense and are angry about it. That is your right of course, but it isn't going to change what happened in the past and the only person that will be harmed in the process is yourself. "Resentment is a cup of poison we pour for our enemy and drink ourself."
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I have no problem with doing a history lesson on Slavery and for that matter having a museum devoted to Slavery. One such museum just opened in NYC called "Divided NY" which details the two sides that NY played on the issue. i.e. They decided to end slavery in NY long before the Civil War, but many many many people in Manhattan got rich financing the cotton plantations which used slaves to produce their product. In other words, the money from Slavery ended up in NY and was responsible for much of its pre Civil War growth. It was so prevalant that when the South seceded from the Union, Fernando Wood, the Mayor of NY, wanted Manhattan, Long Island, and Staten Island to secede from the Union to form the independent city of NY so that it could continue with the very profitable cotton trade with the Confederacy. This museum is devoted to NY's role in making slavery possible for more than 78 years in the United States.

Where I do have a problem is when Slavery is incorrectly attributed to problems that we have today such as the flag issue. The flag on the SC Statehouse grounds was put there for racist reasons in the 1950s. it had nothing to do with either the Confederacy which supporters claim, and it has nothing to do with Slavery as supporters and some here have said. At some point in the future maybe the two sides can sit down at a table and come to a compromise but right now neither is willing to do so, so I suspect the current flag will continue to fly there for another generation. Too much bad blood has been stirred up by bigots and opportunists from both camps and its going to take time now..

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This thing has been in every state paper, CNN, MSNBC, The Smoking Gun, etc. Its everywhere.

Its easy to point the finger at Clemson, as this makes our entire state look bad. But you have to remember that USC had the confederate flag on its Gameday show this year (regardless of whether that guy was dressed in Clemson colors or not). Its just further evidence that there are still racial issues in this state, and that Clemson is not as harmonious as some people may want you to think.

That said- these 'gangsta' parties happen all over the place, not just in Clemson. And what really irritates me is that it happened in Texas and Conneticut too! (they were also on or around MLK day, and they were also put on facebook. But you don't see the media focusing on them. Its just because its South Carolina, and its a sterotype that this type of thing happens here (ironic isnt it?).

What also irritates me is that the kind of behovior that the party was mocking is celebrated in black culture. Just watch BET or listen to any rap station and youll see what I mean... guns, grillz, money, large 'booties' etc. The influences of the black cluture on main stream America are obvious. Many people my age love the Chappelle show, which pokes fun at black culture. People immitate things that they like, so I don't think its as racial as the media wants it to be. People are 'offended' at the insensitivity of this party due to its timing -and they should be- but should it not also make blacks look at the things they are sterotyped for and perhaps make a change?

Maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. All I know is that I'm embarrased for Clemson and for the great state of South Carolina.

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Don't kid yourself. People are people, whether in SC or elsewhere.

I think I would have to see the pictures for myself (which have probably since been taken down) to determine whether this was some innocent mock celebration of "Black culture" (which is in no way monolithic), or whether this was an out-and-out racist display which was done knowingly and intentionally. I still think there would have been an uproar if this had happened in September rather than around MLK Day. I would also think that college kids would know that there is a difference between comedy and reality. If I went around publicly saying all of the stuff that comes out of Lisa Lampanelli's mouth, I'd more than likely be out of a job and would have been kicked out of school by now.

With that said, I still think Spartan has a point (and many Blacks speak out against what he has described; here's the most recent thing I've read about it), but that's another discussion entirely.

Also, here's an op-ed piece in this week's edition of the Free Times which speaks to the NCAA ban.

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You'd think that being at a university, being a part of a system which is supposed to foster cross-culture dialogue and supports diversity, students would know better than to buy into the stereotypes, much less mock them. Seriously, how much longer can people, in a society which stresses multiculturalism and diversity, claim, "Oh I didn't know it would be offensive," especially given the responses (which the media loves to hype up) to similar incidents across the nation? I guess you can only take the person out of Hickville...

After incidents like these, which also include this one at Tufts and this one at Johns Hopkins, a part of me can't help but be offended and puzzled. This is also why I believe HBCUs, while not perfect, still play a very important role in higher education today.

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What alarms me is that the very same attitudes that these students and incidents display are the very same attitudes that produced "The Birth of A Nation", blackface minstrels, and made acceptable the rise of the KKK, lynching,racism,civil rights denial, and mob violence not only in the south but throughout the United States. And even worse is that African Americans (obviously I'm speaking about certain segments of the population, not all African Americans) are fostering these negative stereotypes and opinions through irresponsible, uncouth and may I even say, uncivilized, behavior. It has unfortunely become the job of young, professional, African American males, I daresay the likes of Krazeeboi and myself for example, to counter the stereotypical image, and negative publicity of our peers who are less responsible, less caring, and less cognizant of how their "over the top" behavior is affecting African Americans and society as a whole. That these attitudes about African Americans still exist is no surprise, each generation can only be taught by the previous and change comes slowly and sometimes not at all.

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What alarms me is that the very same attitudes that these students and incidents display are the very same attitudes that produced "The Birth of A Nation", blackface minstrels, and made acceptable the rise of the KKK, lynching,racism,civil rights denial, and mob violence not only in the south but throughout the United States. Ane even more worse is that African Americans (obviously I'm speaking about certain segments of the population, not all African Americans) are fostering these negative stereotypes and opinions through irresponsible, uncouth and may I even say, uncivilized, behavior. It has unfortunely become the job of young, professional, African American males, I daresay the likes of Krazeeboi and myself for example, to counter the stereotypical image, and negative publicity of our peers who are less responsible, less caring, and less cognizant of how their "over the top" behavior is affecting African Americans and society as a whole. That these attitudes about African Americans still exist is no surprise, each generation can only be taught by the previous and change comes slowly and sometimes not at all.
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This party was in bad taste, but I think that was the point of the "joke". I don't think these kids are equivalent to KKK members. Insensitive perhaps, and crude, yes.

The President of Clemson has released a statement to the press condemning the party, which is expected. It's become a PR nightmare. However, I think his and others' grandiose schemes to rid a college's student population of this sort of behavior (which is not illegal) is a naive exercise in futility at best, and just plain wrong. Private, legal behavior should not be dictated by anyone. You can't legislate taste or tact (even though we sure would like to in some cases!)

It is hoped that acceptance, and not just tolerance, of people who are different from oneself will result from society's awareness and public condemnation of incidents such as this, however. Setting a good example would be the best way to do this. Perhaps this will be a catalyst for something positive--Clemson's student body could have a multi-cultural celebration of some sort. (They sure could use such an event, even without this recent incident shedding light on it, to dispel the University's bogus image as a bastion of Rebel flag wavers.)

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This incident shows that sense is not common. Shame on the idiot students.

If they are hateful or dumb enough to do something like this again, they should at least invite Joe Biden to come, since as a prominent Democrat he has been largely immune from flak from several racially insensitive things he has said, including this week.

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This was an unfortunate event. And I hate the way it divided the school and community. Fortunately, healing has begun and Clemson is taking this opportunity to move forward as a stronger university, community, and FAMILY. Our orange that binds us is more important and stronger than the black, red, white, or yellow that distinguishes us as individuals.

Greenville News article: "Students apologize for party":

Greenvilleonline.com

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What alarms me is that the very same attitudes that these students and incidents display are the very same attitudes that produced "The Birth of A Nation", blackface minstrels, and made acceptable the rise of the KKK, lynching,racism,civil rights denial, and mob violence not only in the south but throughout the United States. And even worse is that African Americans (obviously I'm speaking about certain segments of the population, not all African Americans) are fostering these negative stereotypes and opinions through irresponsible, uncouth and may I even say, uncivilized, behavior. It has unfortunely become the job of young, professional, African American males, I daresay the likes of Krazeeboi and myself for example, to counter the stereotypical image, and negative publicity of our peers who are less responsible, less caring, and less cognizant of how their "over the top" behavior is affecting African Americans and society as a whole. That these attitudes about African Americans still exist is no surprise, each generation can only be taught by the previous and change comes slowly and sometimes not at all.
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