The Shoppes at River Bend

[Huntsville_secede]

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/ind....xml&coll=1

Former NFL owner eyes Summit-like plan for Madison

MADISON - A major retail development similar to The Summit in Birmingham is being considered for 450 acres at Zierdt Road and Madison Boulevard.

Mayor Sandy Kirkindall said a development company linked to Edward J. DeBartolo Jr., former owner of the San Francisco 49ers, is looking at the site for a large, upscale retail development.

I thought thats what BridgeStreet was supposed to be a development similiar to the Summit in Birmingham, why on earth would we need two of these now BridgeStreet hasnt even opened yet.

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/ind....xml&coll=1

Former NFL owner eyes Summit-like plan for Madison

MADISON - A major retail development similar to The Summit in Birmingham is being considered for 450 acres at Zierdt Road and Madison Boulevard.

Mayor Sandy Kirkindall said a development company linked to Edward J. DeBartolo Jr., former owner of the San Francisco 49ers, is looking at the site for a large, upscale retail development.

I thought thats what BridgeStreet was supposed to be a development similiar to the Summit in Birmingham, why on earth would we need two of these now BridgeStreet hasnt even opened yet. P.S. how do you change the topic name after you have created it, my topic title didn't flow well and I wanted to change it so anybody who has privileges to do this kind of stuff please do.

[HSVTiger]

a few thoughts on this.

1. Good to see a high profiler developer looking at us.

2. This project will evolve greatly if built at all.

3. New interchange will have to built at Zeirdt/I-565. This has been

proposed for a decade. ALDOT involved so don't look for it to happen unless

ordered by the Governor. Add this to County Line, I-65/Tanner, and Parkway overpass/interchanges

that have been promised AND funded but still not built.

4. Because of Bridge Street this project will have to be something different.

5. IF it happens it will be at least 5 years in the making.

6. The site involved is excellent, In Madison city limits but adjacent to HSV city limits.

7. The Huntsville area should expect alot of developers to be looking at possible projects.

Not all will happen but HSV is on the radar screen nationally.

[Huntsville_secede]

a few thoughts on this.

1. Good to see a high profiler developer looking at us.

2. This project will evolve greatly if built at all.

3. New interchange will have to built at Zeirdt/I-565. This has been

proposed for a decade. ALDOT involved so don't look for it to happen unless

ordered by the Governor. Add this to County Line, I-65/Tanner, and Parkway overpass/interchanges

that have been promised AND funded but still not built.

4. Because of Bridge Street this project will have to be something different.

5. IF it happens it will be at least 5 years in the making.

6. The site involved is excellent, In Madison city limits but adjacent to HSV city limits.

7. The Huntsville area should expect alot of developers to be looking at possible projects.

Not all will happen but HSV is on the radar screen nationally.

[jmanhsv]

"The Shoppes at River Bend"- that's what they're calling it, though there is no river within a few miles of this development. It will include 5 anchors (one as big as 185,000 sq ft), a grocery store, two hotels, and three sit down restaurants. Construction is targeted for 2008. But remember, this might not happen.

"The Shoppes at River Bend will be the premier shopping destination for the entire Madison/Huntsville area. It will feature of 2,000,000 SF of GLA, comprised of national anchor tenants, specialty retailers, restaurants, hotels and a 16 screen movie theater. It is strategically located at Highway 565 at Zierdt Road. (New Interchange Planned). "

From the website (scroll down a bit and click on the link): http://www.storetrax.com/DeBartolo/perform...p;maxResults=50

There doesn't need to be another lifestyle center on the westside. This is just going to be overkill. Put it on the north or east side, and I will be happy. And seriously, how many movie theaters are now proposed/under construction in West Madison County? 3?

[Huntsville_secede]

"The Shoppes at River Bend"- that's what they're calling it, though there is no river within a few miles of this development. It will include 5 anchors (one as big as 185,000 sq ft), a grocery store, two hotels, and three sit down restaurants. Construction is targeted for 2008. But remember, this might not happen.

"The Shoppes at River Bend will be the premier shopping destination for the entire Madison/Huntsville area. It will feature of 2,000,000 SF of GLA, comprised of national anchor tenants, specialty retailers, restaurants, hotels and a 16 screen movie theater. It is strategically located at Highway 565 at Zierdt Road. (New Interchange Planned). "

From the website (scroll down a bit and click on the link): http://www.storetrax.com/DeBartolo/perform...p;maxResults=50

There doesn't need to be another lifestyle center on the westside. This is just going to be overkill. Put it on the north or east side, and I will be happy. And seriously, how many movie theaters are now proposed/under construction in West Madison County? 3?

[rnc]

There doesn't need to be another lifestyle center on the westside. This is just going to be overkill. Put it on the north or east side, and I will be happy. And seriously, how many movie theaters are now proposed/under construction in West Madison County? 3?

[TRoberts]

After looking at the info on the website in regards to this project, I couldn't help but chuckle and wonder how much crack someone was smoking. I mean, has anyone looked at the square footages of the buildings that are proposed. I can't name enough anchors to even occupy all of them as they are stated right now. Anchor C which just wreaks of a Wal-Mart supercenter size is quite obvious to me but Wal-Mart is pratically across the interstate from here. The three Anchor B, D & E are along the lines of JC Penny, Belk and Dillard sizes. None of which I see located here unless they vacated their Madison Square Mall stores. Anchor A is giving me fits because it's along the size of a regular Target; well, Target isn't going to build here when they have a superstore not even 5 minutes away.

And since when did a Theater site need to be 420,000+ sq. ft. That's either a 150 screen theater or completely and utterly wrong. I can't see this project making it to reality in any shape even closely resembling what's on the site plan.

Outlying Pad sites general go to Restaurants, Banks, etc. as you see around Madison Square. This guy is talking about 12 outlying Pads in this development not to mention in-line restaurant spaces as well. There probably isn't 12 companies that could fulfill this Pads without already being represented in the Madision market.

Anyway, the more I look at the info on the project the more it appears to be someones pipe-dream.

[HSVTiger]

good points rtkenmore, I think this is a diversion, testing the waters, see what kind of demand their is exercise.

The good thing is HSV is attracting attention.

[DaHa]

Obviously, it's not looking like this development will happen (as many have stated) considering most tenants Huntsville/Madison can realistically get (on this magnitude, that is) we already have or are coming to Bridge Street, not to mention the latest "fights" regarding deannaxation.

Dumb question: Would it make best sense for Debartolo/Breland to partner with Colonial Properties Trust and make this development a "relocated" / upscaled Madison Square Mall of sorts? Seems to me that Colonial would be able to finance the development (since that's what the deannaxation arguments stems from) and the two companies could work together to bring Huntsville/Madison the best retail offerings possible...Dumb idea?

I know Colonial just poured a lot of money into Madison Square, but the chances of it ever returning to its glory are slim at this point (hardly think new floors and entrances are going to cut it). It's in terrible need of quality. Given it takes 5-7 years for lifestyle centers to come to fruition (an average, and what we have witnessed with Bridge Street), at that point it would be time to REALLY consider what to do with Madison Square, and Huntsville/Madison may be in a better position, with a higher population base and more rooftops hopefully, to attract more highly desirable retailers...

Just an idea to see if this is a realistic possibility. As most bigger cities see, most "ideas", "proposals" come up against this type of opposition for various reasons, and just because someone comes up with a big idea, doesn't mean they can follow through due to finances, lack of interest, community disapproval, etc...but before we (Huntsville/Madison, the developers) ditch the idea, I hope we can look at options such as partnerships which seemingly would benefit all.

Thanks.

[3rdGenHuntsvillian]

I would prefer to see a development of this size be located past the airport where it can spur some new growth.

When Madison Square Mall was built, there pretty much wasn't anything west of Sparkman drive. Now, some people don't want to go that far east into town to get to the Mall.

[rnc]

Obviously, it's not looking like this development will happen (as many have stated) considering most tenants Huntsville/Madison can realistically get (on this magnitude, that is) we already have or are coming to Bridge Street, not to mention the latest "fights" regarding deannaxation.

Dumb question: Would it make best sense for Debartolo/Breland to partner with Colonial Properties Trust and make this development a "relocated" / upscaled Madison Square Mall of sorts? Seems to me that Colonial would be able to finance the development (since that's what the deannaxation arguments stems from) and the two companies could work together to bring Huntsville/Madison the best retail offerings possible...Dumb idea?

I know Colonial just poured a lot of money into Madison Square, but the chances of it ever returning to its glory are slim at this point (hardly think new floors and entrances are going to cut it). It's in terrible need of quality. Given it takes 5-7 years for lifestyle centers to come to fruition (an average, and what we have witnessed with Bridge Street), at that point it would be time to REALLY consider what to do with Madison Square, and Huntsville/Madison may be in a better position, with a higher population base and more rooftops hopefully, to attract more highly desirable retailers...

Just an idea to see if this is a realistic possibility. As most bigger cities see, most "ideas", "proposals" come up against this type of opposition for various reasons, and just because someone comes up with a big idea, doesn't mean they can follow through due to finances, lack of interest, community disapproval, etc...but before we (Huntsville/Madison, the developers) ditch the idea, I hope we can look at options such as partnerships which seemingly would benefit all.

Thanks.

[HSVTiger]

The question is, what happens to Madison Square? Nothing kills a retail area like having a huge property like Madison Square sparsely occupied and rotting. I think it would severely hurt that whole area of University Drive.

I personally hope this whole idea is ditched. Bridge Street NEEDS to succeed. Having a similar development literally around the corner seems idiotic. Especially before we've even seen how well Bridge Street is recieved. Bridge Street and the downtown/Marketsquare development are critical to Huntsville becoming a location that seems desirable to outsiders considering a move here.

I think the political BS that we've seen recently is a good argument for consolidation. I would like to see Madison county one metro government to eliminate a lot of this competition between communities. But maybe that is for another discussion.

[rnc]

While this whole affair is messy and nasty, it is at least a five year plan. The demographics will probably be dramatically different by then. Something about this

project just doesn't make sense, Breland is strictly doing it to get the best business deal. I see it changing the University drive corridor somewhat, but probably for the better.

Madison Square with this last upgrade had a chance to raise the bar and they didn't. What does need to happen is Research Park Blvd widened from I-565 to Jordan Ln.

Good luck with that.

[HSVTiger]

How do you see it changing University for the better? It seems like it would draw all the nice retail away and give people less reason to deal with the hassle of University Dr traffic. I don't see the demographics changing enough in 5 years to justify a second Bridge St type development right next to the Research Park, even with BRAC. I think a similar development further out in Madison could prosper.

I think Huntsville will do everything in its power to block the Zierdt Road development from happening. Anyways, what are the chances of an interchange being put there onto I-565? There seems to be dozens of other road projects that need to be done before that happens. And if I read correctly, the whole development hinges on that happening.

[HSVTiger]

sort of related at least from the annexation point of view. Both Madison and Huntsville

extend into Limestone County.

Sounds like Madison has done what they claim others are trying to do.

ATHENS - Local leaders expressed frustration today over 187.5 acres in Limestone County annexed by the Madison City Council on March 26.

Limestone County Commission chairman David Seibert and Probate Judge Mike Davis held a news conference to complain about Madison's annexation. They said the Madison council's action complicates how county services will be provided in the annexed area.

Seibert said the annexation puts Limestone County at a disadvantage when planning economic development because Madison would reap part of the tax base.

At the property owners' request, Madison annexed eight parcels of land off Segers Road between Old Highway 20 and Powell Road.

[HSVTiger]

looks like the a lot of the roadblocks may be out of the way for this to move forward..

"Moon stressed that the idea was only a small part of the conversation. "Their biggest concern was to repair any damage that might have been done with the public perception that we were the bad guys on the block," she said. "They knew we'd gotten pounded over it."

Watson said a development that size could benefit Huntsville, Madison and Madison County, but he would need more details before making a commitment.

Moon said a major consideration would be the project's potential effect on other Huntsville retail projects such as Madison Square Mall and the $200 million-plus Bridge Street development in Cummings Research Park."

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/ind....xml&coll=1

[HSVTiger]

Last week, DeBartolo Development shared the concept of a proposed project in Madison with thousands of retailers at an international convention in Las Vegas.

"Once they get a gauge of interest, DeBartolo will develop another more realistic preliminary design and at that point we can get more serious cost estimates on roads and utilities," Steve Raby, Breland's spokesman, said Thursday.

Breland has estimated the $500 million project will take about $40 million worth of incentives from the city for roads and water and sewer lines.

Madison City Council President Tommy Overcash said Thursday city officials haven't heard from the DeBartolo company since the convention last week, but they expect to within the next couple of weeks.

[David1502]

The likely anchors for this center are Nordstrom and Macy's (there are two anchors identified as having 90,000 sq. ft). With the present high income levels (1/3 of all Madison households make more than $100K) and additional growth by BRAC, a Nordstrom is definitely feasible. Remember there are Nordstroms in cities like Spokane, WA and Annapolis, MD and there is strong speculation that they will enter the Nashville market at the Mall of Green Hills and at Birmingham at Riverchase Galleria in the original Macy's space. Huntsville is probably about the largest market in the U.S.without a Macy's and the national ads they run on cable channels are all a waste without at least one local store.Also, a Home Depot is a likely candidate for another anchor space as well as a Target to reach the south Madison and booming Zierdt Road corridor.

Other possible tenants could include Crate and Barrel, Brooks Brothers, Coach, Harolds, and restaurants which can't find space or work out a deal in Bridge St. or Constellation. (Cheesecake Factory, Maggiano's Little Italy, Ted's Montanta Grill).

[HSVTiger]

positive words on this project

By WENDY REEVES

Times Staff Writer [email protected]

State would build Zierdt interchange for mall, Butler says

MADISON - State Sen. Tom Butler, D-Madison, said Thursday that the state has committed to build an interchange at Zierdt Road and Interstate 565 if the DeBartolo shopping center proposal comes through.

Butler said a Veterans Administration "mega-clinic" is also planned for the area.

"If that shopping center project or another big project comes to that spot, I've been told by Governor Bob Riley the state will do the interchange that will serve everyone in that area," Butler said at the annual Madison Chamber of Commerce's Partners in Progress luncheon. "It will also generate revenue for the communities and the state."

[Sherlock]

positive words on this project

By WENDY REEVES

Times Staff Writer [email protected]

State would build Zierdt interchange for mall, Butler says

MADISON - State Sen. Tom Butler, D-Madison, said Thursday that the state has committed to build an interchange at Zierdt Road and Interstate 565 if the DeBartolo shopping center proposal comes through.

Butler said a Veterans Administration "mega-clinic" is also planned for the area.

"If that shopping center project or another big project comes to that spot, I've been told by Governor Bob Riley the state will do the interchange that will serve everyone in that area," Butler said at the annual Madison Chamber of Commerce's Partners in Progress luncheon. "It will also generate revenue for the communities and the state."

[HSVTiger]

new name going around for this project

The Peaks at SouthChase, don't expect this to be the final name.

It's all in and about marketing studies, focus groups, retailers response etc.

This project does appear to become a reality, 300 acres, wow!

[Shawn35816]

Wouldn't it be nice in 5 years to have this, Constellation, and Bridge Street all up and running, plus a renovated Madison Square and Parkway Place. That would be some serious shopping for a place this size. We all know that the ladies have to be happy with a place, a lot of times, before the husband will move. I can see some serious growth.

[HSVTiger]

Wouldn't it be nice in 5 years to have this, Constellation, and Bridge Street all up and running, plus a renovated Madison Square and Parkway Place. That would be some serious shopping for a place this size. We all know that the ladies have to be happy with a place, a lot of times, before the husband will move. I can see some serious growth.

[jmanhsv]

Bidclerk says the developers are still aiming for March of next year to start construction. I still don't see how 5 anchors, 55 shops, 2 hotels, a movie theater, and a grocery store all add up to 2 million square feet. Madison Square has 5 anchors and 140 stores, and I think it's around a million. Unless those are some massive hotels....

[Huntsville_secede]

Bidclerk says the developers are still aiming for March of next year to start construction. I still don't see how 5 anchors, 55 shops, 2 hotels, a movie theater, and a grocery store all add up to 2 million square feet. Madison Square has 5 anchors and 140 stores, and I think it's around a million. Unless those are some massive hotels....