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HopeGardensGuy

Downtown Condo Flipping

90 posts in this topic

Just did a search on one of the online MLS systems, and it showed that there are 61 units for sale at the Viridian. One of the articles I found originally announcing the Viridian said that there were to be 305 units, and if that stayed true, there are now 20% of the units back on the market. They range in price from $600,000 (1,468 sq ft, 2 BR/2 BA) down to $228,900 (618 sq ft, 1/1)

A few weeks ago, I remember reading postings that stated something like "Well, I'm relieved to see only 10% of the units at the Viridian are coming back on the market." Well, does seeing 20% of the units becoming available make anyone uncomfortable? Is it all ok, regardless? Let the market take care of things?

I am not one who advocates government intervention, nor do I think onerous penalties or restrictions limiting resalre are the answer. I just wonder what all this churning does to the overall market, as I await the building of my already-under-contract townhouse @ 5th and Main in early 2008.

Look forward to people's thoughts and perspectives.

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As stated in previos posts, resale will set the marketplace. Some of these units will probably need to come down a little in price, but they will sell. As Nashville builds more and more downtown living spaces my feeling is that flipping may slow some as more people like myself are buying to actually live in the space. Those who are flipping will make money, the question is how much? Encore is 80% sold and from the people I have spoken to, I think the % of flippers to actual residents will be smaller in this development.

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A Realtracs search shows a much lower number of Viridian units than 61. I can't see the MLS service. If it is 61, that indeed is a lot and that will modify prices for sure. Those units will be snapped up by people who want to live in downtown right now.

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A Realtracs search shows a much lower number of Viridian units than 61. I can't see the MLS service. If it is 61, that indeed is a lot and that will modify prices for sure. Those units will be snapped up by people who want to live in downtown right now.

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$228k for a 600 sq. ft. condo!

I think the Viridian prices have definitely gotten out of hand just because they're the first units available. The market will become more reasonable once all the other developments are built. It's classic supply and demand. I just hope the demand keeps up when all the developments are finished and investors try to sell. If the Viridian is an indication of the number of investors looking to sell quickly, prices may be dropping sharply.

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That price is not as outrageous as you think. Most are paying in the low $300's per square foot for downtown properties (inclusive of a parking space at $10k and upward)

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That's what I would expect to find in a place like... New York City of Jersey City. But this is Nashville!

But I agree with what another poster mentioned, it is supply and demand. Without rent/pricing caps (which introduce another slew of issues), there is no way to really defeat that.

Just build more! ;)

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$228k for a 600 sq. ft. condo!

I think the Viridian prices have definitely gotten out of hand just because they're the first units available. The market will become more reasonable once all the other developments are built. It's classic supply and demand. I just hope the demand keeps up when all the developments are finished and investors try to sell. If the Viridian is an indication of the number of investors looking to sell quickly, prices may be dropping sharply.

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Agreed, once those who "Must have" purchase a few of those 60+ condos and the market cools, you'll see the prices drop and I bet there will be a line of people ready to snatch up those units. The interest in the condo market is still there. People are just willing to wait it out a little and get a bargan or reasonable deal.

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It appears that Birmingham is the better deal. Downtown condo prices range from $125 to a maximum of around $350 per square foot. Most of the lofts are located in older office towers from the early 20th century...some industrial...and traditional.

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$380 a square foot! That's what I call unaffordable housing.

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A quick check of the Charlotte NC market shows the following:

230 South Tryon, #301 Property Type: Condo

Charlotte, NC 28202 Price: $450,000

Interior Size: 1187 Sq. Ft.

Directions: On the corner of Tryon and Third St. in Uptown Lot Size: n/a

Bedrooms: 2

Baths: 2

The Park - Price Range: $400 - $700,000

210 Trade - Price Range: $400,000 and up

Courtside - Price Range: $249,900

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A quick check of the Charlotte NC market shows the following:

230 South Tryon, #301 Property Type: Condo

Charlotte, NC 28202 Price: $450,000

Interior Size: 1187 Sq. Ft.

Directions: On the corner of Tryon and Third St. in Uptown Lot Size: n/a

Bedrooms: 2

Baths: 2

The Park - Price Range: $400 - $700,000

210 Trade - Price Range: $400,000 and up

Courtside - Price Range: $249,900

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All the more reason for Nashville to add corporate headquarters downtown.....

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Anyone familiar with Novare knows that all their projects city to city are virtually indistinguishable from the standpoint of interior and exterior quality. Just for grins I looked up 4 currently available resales in Spire Midtown, an Atlanta highrise Novare finished almost a year ago. www.spiremidtown.com Units 1516, 1505, 1015 and 1108 are available on the Condo Store website with ASKING prices ranging from $183k to $340k, or an average of $290 per square foot. Yes, I said $290 not $390 and we're talking about Atlanta, the largest city in the SE (which btw I think is a more appropriate comparison than NJ or NY).

I've been in both projects (Viridian & Spire) and I can tell you that the only diffferences are that Spire's pool deck is about 3 times the size of V's and from Spire you can easily walk to about 20-30 restaurant and bar choices in an already established midtown neighborhood. Oh, and land cost for developers is about twice as high in this part of town as compared to Nashville. So why the $100 per sf premium for the V in Nashville ?

Again, when the speculative fever wanes (and it may be already) I think you're going to see the price of these 55-65 units come down significantly.

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I could not get any MLS info since it is not open yet, but the Avenue appears to be selling very wll as most of the one-bedroom units are already sold out. Here is some info from the Novare realty site that shows it starts in the 300's, much higher than Encore or Viridian starting points.

Avenue

Avenue is The Novare Group's first development in Charlotte with 386 units and 36 stories. After several successful projects in Atlanta, they decided to expand into the Charlotte market and have also planned a second high-rise called "Twelve." Avenue will have a convenient location on Church Street within walking distance to restaurants and nightlife. These loft style condos are sure to impress with their ceiling to floor glass. Amenities include a pool, fitness center, clubroom, and media room. Over 80% sold. Great two-bedroom condos are still available. But act fast before they are all gone.

Price Range: $300,000 and up.

Twelve

Atlanta's Novare Group will build their second high-rise in Charlotte between 7th and 8th Streets on College Street. This 33-35 story complex will have a total of 400 condos and 150 hotel rooms. Condos will be either one or two bedrooms. Construction should begin early 2007 and occupancy by 2009. (no pricing info)

post-15625-1169759810_thumb.jpg

post-15625-1169759810_thumb.jpg

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I think the $300k and up relates to what remains available. Novare's website for Avenue indicates that they are sold out of everything but their larger 2 bedrooms and Penthouses.

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This from the urbanplanet.org Charlotte site on Avenue:

"Avenue will comprise 386 one- and two-bedroom units, as well as 10,000 square feet of street-level retail space. Prices are expected to begin in the $170,000s for one-bedroom units and the $270,000s for two-bedroom units. Features include sleek, contemporary architecture with floor-to-ceiling glass walls, kitchens with granite and stainless steel, 10-foot ceilings, 24-hour concierge, ultra-high-speed Internet access, reserved parking and upscale fitness and social centers. More information on the project is available at www.avenueuptown.com."

"A quick check of the website shows the largest two-bedroom unit is 1271 square feet on the lowest, 10th, floor. That equates to about $260 per square foot. Seems like their pitch about providing affordable units at some bottom-basement cost above their costs is slipping a bit."

Pretty much the same as viridian when it started. Also this is without parking, upgrades, etc. My 1 bedrm on the 15th floor at Encore was about $260k before parking, et.all. (They are over 300 per square foot trust me) Jeeper12 you are making me work way too hard for this:) :lol:

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I think you make a good point 624. I don't see $380-385/sf being at all sustainable for the remaining resales in this building. Anyone familiar with Novare knows that all their projects city to city are virtually indistinguishable from the standpoint of interior and exterior quality. Just for grins I looked up 4 currently available resales in Spire Midtown, an Atlanta highrise Novare finished almost a year ago. www.spiremidtown.com Units 1516, 1505, 1015 and 1108 are available on the Condo Store website with ASKING prices ranging from $183k to $340k, or an average of $290 per square foot. Yes, I said $290 not $390 and we're talking about Atlanta, the largest city in the SE (which btw I think is a more appropriate comparison than NJ or NY).

I've been in both projects (Viridian & Spire) and I can tell you that the only diffferences are that Spire's pool deck is about 3 times the size of V's and from Spire you can easily walk to about 20-30 restaurant and bar choices in an already established midtown neighborhood. Oh, and land cost for developers is about twice as high in this part of town as compared to Nashville. So why the $100 per sf premium for the V in Nashville ?

Again, when the speculative fever wanes (and it may be already) I think you're going to see the price of these 55-65 units come down significantly.

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We are in agreement this time. It's clear that there are more flippers than some people expected, and they drove up prices higher than the general market will bear. After a few buyers scoffed up some of the overpriced resale units, the market will basically dry up until pricing drops to reasonable levels. I'm thinking there will be plenty of buyers for Viridian units at $300 per Sq Ft, but not too many more at $390.

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:whistling:

As far as pricing goes between the developments in Atlanta and Nashville, I would say you

must compare the location within the respective cities.

Location, location,location!

What say you?

Thanks

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:whistling:

As far as pricing goes between the developments in Atlanta and Nashville, I would say you

must compare the location within the respective cities.

Location, location,location!

What say you?

Thanks

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...

Again, my original point was simply that I don't see any justification for a premium for the Viridian over the Spire. If anything I see location, location, location rationale for it to trade at a discount to Spire despite the $100/sf premium V flippers are seeking. Doubtless, it will be interesting to see how it all shakes out over the next several months as the Nashville market finds its own equilibrium.

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